Playstation 4 "Orbis" rumor (1 Viewer)

[Bryan^H]

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/122/1221973p1.html?RSSwhen2012-03-29_173000&RSSid=1221973
Pretty strong rumor going around about a possible launch late next year of a new Playstation system.
If the rumors are correct, it will not support backward compatability(DAMN!).
I really don't want a new system. My PS3 is just fine, and if the "Orbis" isn't backward compatible, then I just don't see myself buying this. Will have to wait and see how this shapes up.

 

[mattCR]

All of these are moving toward supporting formats that prevents buying used games.. and, as a result, will also kill off rental games. The idea is, you buy it, you enter the code, it's yours. It can move to you system to system, but you can't sell it, etc...

 

[Morgan Jolley]

I'm doubtful that the next gen will block used games any more than the current gen. If anything, it would streamline the Online Pass system by tying the "rights" to a game to an account, the same way that downloading a game from PSN, XBL, or Wiiware works. I'm not sure how I feel about the whole "rights" idea because you should be able to buy a disc and have everything you need right there on it, but at the same time I would only buy a used game when it's under 50% of the original price, so purchasing any DLC or Online Pass would still add up to less than the original price, anyway.
I think the way the PS Vita works is the best method. You either buy new games in the store and have a physical copy that can be returned, traded in, lent to friends, etc. or you buy the digital download version for a slight discount (usually the cost of a physical copy of the game used at GameStop) and you lose the ability to get your money back.
The best way for the industry to combat used games sales is to release games at a lower price to begin with. This doesn't happen because the prices take piracy into account (all products do this) but the fact is that a lot of piracy is done by people who either buy the game anyway or have no intention of ever buying it, so its not really lost revenue. However, used games are only lost revenue because the games are too expensive to warrant purchase, in the eyes of the gamer. I'd gladly pay $60 for very, very few games because I just don't find that much value in them. I also don't find much value in a $10 movie ticket, so I'm a bit of a cheapskate.
I think the revolution on the next gen of systems will be high quality games that you buy in chunks, digitally, for reduced prices. Something like what MS was going to do with the Fable games where you buy episodes of the games for $10 each rather than being forced to buy a full $60 game. If this is the move the next gen makes, combined with blocking used games or using "rights" management, then I don't think gamers will notice. They need to incentivize gamers to buy new games by giving them those games at a good price, rather than blocking used games outright.

 

[Greg_S_H]

If they did block used games, would Gamestop carry the 4 and its software? I believe stores refused to carry the physical medialess Go. On the one hand, they'd have to carry them to avoid being shut out from a major system, but I can see them trying to use the threat to protect their used game bread and butter.

 

[Jeffery_H]

So far, all reports from news sources such as Gamespot, GameInformer and others indicate next generation consoles will indeed put an end to all used software sales and be tied to your system. It will be just like software registration for computers today where it requires the code and also connection to the internet to validate and tie it to the system on their servers.
For places that sell used games, such as GameStop, most of the news sources predict if this does happen with both Microsoft and Sony that many stores will be closing and it could mean the end of their franchise. They said places like that are outdated anyway and would not matter to either of them if they refused to carry their product and only hurt them more so. Places like Amazon, with an Amazon Prime membership is what most people have now days and they still have Best Buy and others.
This of course will also mean the end to the used game market for all new formats going forward from that point on. You will no longer be able to sell them on eBay since they will have no value. Those that sold used games to help pay for new ones will be out of luck.
What has not been discussed here is the recent articles that are talking about the specs. If true, they are less than stellar and will be nearly 2 years old by the time they ship, both Playstation and Microsoft. Unlike the current generation the articles sighted as examples, they were well ahead of the PC curve when they came out and no CPU or GPU was as powerful at that time. Now, if the specs are correct, they won't just be behind some, but quite a bit when they ship. Why? They are no longer trying to compete on cutting edge hardware anymore and going for more the whole package such as entertainment.
For those interested, be sure to check out the latest on sites like Ars, Engadget and others, it's interesting for sure. Who knows if true or if it will change, but it seems like a big risk to me.

 

[Jeffery_H]

If they did block used games, would Gamestop carry the 4 and its software? I believe stores refused to carry the physical medialess Go. On the one hand, they'd have to carry them to avoid being shut out from a major system, but I can see them trying to use the threat to protect their used game bread and butter.

See my current post, this has been addressed by several in the media already. They all seem to think it will be the end to Gamestop and both Sony and Microsoft could care less about their sells sighting other places are more popular or as good anyway.

 

[Jeffery_H]

See my current post, this has been addressed by several in the media already. They all seem to think it will be the end to Gamestop and both Sony and Microsoft could care less about their sells there sighting other places are more popular or as good anyway.

 

[Jeffery_H]

Strange browser errors, trying to quit now, hope this works. delete this.

 

[Aaron Silverman]

Well, my PS3 library should hold me over for the rest of my life.
Or at least until my kid hits his teens and demands satisfaction. . .

 

[Morgan Jolley]

I doubt that the rumor of both consoles blocking used games is true. The people at Sony and MS want to appease shareholders and developers/publishers, but they have to realize that gamers do not have unlimited funds and will not start buying every $60 game they want. Either game prices have to come down at launch ($60 really is a bit high) or they need to allow used game sales to continue. If you look at a series like Call of Duty, they are able to make $1 billion in just a week or two in international sales because people can see $60 (or more, if it's a special edition) worth of value in the product. People buy used games because they are cheaper. That cheaper price reflects what they see as the value in the game. Cutting used games out of the market at this point would mean keeping the total revenue for the market the same but lowering the overall number of units that get moved.
That said, there's probably going to be a bigger emphasis on digital downloads. This makes the entire point moot, especially if downloadable games are discounted from physical media.
In terms of the power of the consoles, I think it's not an important point. The 360 is a little dated but still looks great and the PS3 has some untapped potential (possibly hindered by cross-platform games being spec'd to the 360 version). The Wii established that you can, in fact, have a successful hardware launch with underpowered and cheap components so long as the quality of the experience is good. Nintendo may have tapped and then subsequently tapped out the more casual market that the Wii was aimed at, and that could hurt the potential of the Wii U. The big rumor for Orbis is the use of a PS Vita as a controller for it, much in the same fashion as the Wii U's controller, in addition to Kinect-style voice/gesture control. Kinect sold well but has extremely little software support (and practically none of it is good), so the Wii U's success might be a proof-of-concept for what Sony could be prepping.
Personally, I'd be completely happy with the PS3 and Xbox 360 being the last consoles I ever own. Not in the sense that I don't want to buy any more, but I think they are more than powerful enough for developers to still come up with new experiences. I'm not a graphics-whore and I don't care how many polygons or shaders your middleware can take advantage of. I just want a good game that's fun to play. If they can continue to produce blockbusters outside of the annual franchises like Assassin's Creed and Call of Duty, then I see no point in going into the next gen.

 

[Edwin-S]

My console buying days are over If any of these rumours are true. Some games I buy new, but I also rent games in order to try them out first, since a lot of games on these systems are nothing but expensive shovelware.

 

[Sam Posten]

You guys are correct that none of this makes sense if games start at $60 and remain that price for a year+
But if the pricing model looks more like Steam than console retail games 2011 you will change your stories quickly.
Time will tell!

 

[Aaron Silverman]

CNET Poll:
http://nl.com.com/poll.sc?mc=mcrs&pollId=4358
The results so far:
Question: If Sony or Microsoft goes through with used game restrictions, will you still buy their new consoles?
No way. I can't (or don't want to) pay for all new games. 81%
Eventually. I'll wait to see if a workaround is developed. 8%
Other. 4%
Maybe, but only if a must-have game comes out for the consoles. 4%
Yes. I don't mind paying for new games. 3%

 

[Morgan Jolley]

A poll is one thing, but when the consoles actually come out a ton of those "no" people will buy them anyway.
Remember what happened when Sony removed the Other OS feature from PS3? How people reacted? The lawsuits, the hacking, and LulzSec? Yeah, imagine MS AND Sony pulling the ability for people to do something with their consoles that they're accustomed to and see if they don't come up with a workaround or get their opinions very well heard.

 

[Jeffery_H]

One other thing to keep in mind. If the news articles and insiders are correct, neither Sony nor Microsoft will have any sort of disc drive. They will either be hard drive or solid state only according to sources. How they are going to distribute content is via the internet only, much like the "app stores" that both Apple and Microsoft have now. You will buy new games from there and they will tie into your account automatically. Microsoft is said to allow a "trial" of new games, with reports saying anywhere from 7-14 days. Once you buy though, it's yours and no way to sell used.
The question becomes, what about those that have no internet or don't want to buy their service from either Sony or Microsoft? Their answer at Microsoft was they don't care about them because their numbers show that the market for those people are so small that it does not matter at all to lose them totally as a customer. If you look at the percentage of people that pay for and use XBox Live, they vastly outnumber those that do not and they say their market is already proven which is why download only for new games and content is no concern for them.
This is also why they could care less about selling at places like GameStop, their distribution will be fully internet, except for the hardware which as stated prior, Amazon and others are more than capable.
As to the price being at least $60 for new games still, you bet they will be. From everything said so far, they have no intentions of any price changes. Again, the numbers of sells for new games on release date, especially the good ones, show people will pay that or more. What about "collector's editions"? You will buy on-line through Microsoft or Sony and they ship the contents to you.
That's about all I have for now that was gleaned from several podcasts, magazines and top gamer web sites.

 

[Sam Posten]

I think Vita is going to be the model here. Expect games on read only memory cards. We're back to the cartridge era!
For THIS generation.
The 9th generation will be download only.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

Any consumer market that sells to children will continue to rely on brick and mortar stores for growth. Kids don't have credit cards and not all parents are willing to give them up or let their little children play games online. It would be idiotic for them to pretend that kids only want to play games when they become old enough to play online and without maxing out mommy's Amex by accident.
At the very least, MS and Sony will want to put points cards on shelves in GameStop and sell their consoles/controllers/accessories there. If they completely cut retailers out of the software market, then they will have to start selling their consoles online-only because no store would willingly stock just the console and not the games.
Sam - The cartridge era for the Vita/3DS makes more sense than the optical media era for portables. There was a rumor that MS' new console would use memory cards for games instead of discs, which I think would be dumb. The Vita and 3DS allowing downloads to a memory card (proprietary for one, SD for the other) is a great idea, however. I'm disappointed that the Wii U has been announced as not having a harddrive at all, similar to the Wii, but I'm hoping they'll offer something better than support for high capacity SD cards.

 

[Bryan^H]

A poll is one thing, but when the consoles actually come out a ton of those "no" people will buy them anyway.

Exactly. It will probably sell out at launch, and stay hard to get for a while, if for any other reason than it being the only new home console system in quite a while.
That alone will give it the "it" gadget factor. Unless there is an absolute must have game that I couldn't live without(A new Elder Scrolls game is the only thing that comes to mind) I will pass on this for a long time.
I bought the 360 at launch, and bought a PS3 three years later, and that is only becuase I kept reading it had the best Blu-Ray capabilities(at the time) on the market. The Sony exclusive games weren't the draw for me.

 

[Jeffery_H]

Any consumer market that sells to children will continue to rely on brick and mortar stores for growth. Kids don't have credit cards and not all parents are willing to give them up or let their little children play games online. It would be idiotic for them to pretend that kids only want to play games when they become old enough to play online and without maxing out mommy's Amex by accident.
At the very least, MS and Sony will want to put points cards on shelves in GameStop and sell their consoles/controllers/accessories there. If they completely cut retailers out of the software market, then they will have to start selling their consoles online-only because no store would willingly stock just the console and not the games.

The items in my post are just what was stated on those various news sources. No one knows for certain at this time what or how much of that information will be true when they launch.
One thing I do disagree with on your prediction is about wanting/needing an outlet to sell games besides on-line. Accessories yes, but software no for the reasons stated. Also, if GameStop goes away they still have Wal-Mart, Target and Amazon, which they consider far above the specialty shops like GameStop, which are no longer viable as in years past since the way sells now have shifted. The other reason for this I don't think concerns MS or Sony is because as most people know, the game market is made up of mainly adults whom don't have parents to worry about as they are grown. If you look at the hard numbers, in terms of units sold and age group, the demographic clearly shows adults as the primary players of video game today.
Now, if we look at Nintendo, that is TOTALLY different market altogether. They are indeed a company that markets and depends on kids for the most part. Their Wii was sold as a "family" or kids console and they always will be. It was a system you got for the kids and could play with them if you wanted to. But the same does not apply to MS and Sony when you look at their market breakdown. The money for them is with the adults and they alone carry that market for them.

 

[Sam Posten]

I think you'd be surprised at the breakdown by age for the PS3 and Xbox.