Pioneer DV-45A does not have bass management (1 Viewer)

[Keith Mickunas]

There's a lot of discussion on the S2300 here along with links to even more info. In summary, its based on the RP-82 and has bass managment. There's no adjustable crossover, but its better than nothing.

 

[Kevin C Brown]

I'm not debating that the video portion comes from Panasonic.
But then why does the 2300 have a Pioneer remote then? Looks a lot like the old 525 remote:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=32856
You have to look on pg 45 of the Feb S&V to see the Yamaha remote.
I say, I won't believe it has complete bass management until someone other than a professional reviewer has actually tested it.

 

[Keith Mickunas]

No one who has the player has reported that bass management doesn't work for DVD-Audio.

As for the remote, you can't judge anything by that. Lots of those are made by 3rd parties. Should I assume my Yamaha RX-V1 receiver is made by Marantz because of the remote? There's one particular remote that's been used by a number of receivers and some other components. Does that make the remote manufacturer the manufacturer of those receivers?

Some people have stated that the menus are the same as Panasonic's. So do you think its a Pioneer with Panasonic firmware then?

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Keith-

1) Pioneer advertises both the 45a and 47ai as having "complete" BM for SACD and DVD-A.

2) I have seen at least 3 reviews between those 2 machines that said it has "complete" BM for SACD and DVD-A.

3) Lo and behold, Tony actually tests it himself, and finds out that they don't have BM for DVD-A.

4) The curious guy that he is, he calls up Pioneer and they admit it doesn't have "complete" BM for SACD and DVD-A.

5) The curious guy that I am, I try to repeat Tony's findings, and I do.

6) The Yamaha 2300 comes out. It is the only universal player purported to *not* have been based on Pioneer internal parts.

7) But the Yamaha does use a Pioneer remote. Pioneer has been using the same similar style remote ever since the 414, for 5 years. Five years.

8) Yamaha says that the 2300 has complete BM for SACD and DVD-A.

9) So did Pioneer. Pioneer was wrong.

10) Yamaha may be wrong too.

11) Since the Yamaha player uses a Pioneer remote, there may be some internal Pioneer parts that lead a skeptic like me to *not* simply believe marketing propaganda that the 2300 has "complete" BM for SACD and DVD-A, BECAUSE IT MAY NOT.

 

[Leo]

Well it looks as though manufacturers haven't gotten BM down, so we are left to wait or get an Outlaw ICBM-1 to handle this issue. That way we can enjoy the music now rather than wait. Or should we just complain to Pioneer, Yamaha, etc and demand that they fix the problem.?

 

[Kevin C Brown]

I guess we'll have to wait and see if the Yamaha has complete BM, and I would certainly hope that the Denon 2900 coming in the summer would have it. Another alternative is the Outlaw 950 pre/pro, that has an 80 Hz analog crossover for the 5.1 inputs.

 

[Tony Genovese]

BTW, the Outlaw ICBM does do a great job, and it is quite flexible. Having the ability to lower the crossover point to 40 if you so desire is a real boon.

I've got half a mind to keep the 45A, run it through the ICBM, and wait for the Denon 2900. I think my dealer has a trade up policy. Just not sure if it lasts 1 year or only 4 months for digital sources. I'll have to check this out as the Denon isn't scheduled to be realeased until May.

 

[Leo]

I know my dealer (Tweeter aka HiFi Buys in Atlanta) supports 120 day upgrade policy.

 

[Tony Genovese]

Yeah, that's the dealer, in MA though. 120 days isn't going get me to May, though, I don't think. Although I could probably do a pre-order. I'll have to talk to them.

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Tony- Might depend on how many DVD-A's you have and how often you listen to them too. (For my big push into hi res audio, I still only have 2 SACDs and 1 DVD-A...) I've seen used ICBMs around for $200, and I think you can get a refurb from Outlaw for around that price too. And then sell it in the summer once you've upgraded. I can't imagine that you'd lose more than $50 on it for that long.

 

[Mike Sloan]

Tony...is the problem with bass management associated only with DVD Audio...or is their a problem with "LFE only" going to the sub with SACD as well?
It appears that there are 2 problems with bass management:frowning:1)That it sends "LFE only" to the sub.
(2)that the LFE is at too low a level.
Are these problems solely confined to the analog outputs? Is the LFE "depressed" from the digital output,as well?
And lastly, exactly how does the ICBM fix the above.Sorry for all the questions...I just stumbled upon this discussion..and I just ordered the 45A yesterday.
Thanks
Mike

 

[Kevin C Brown]

SACD BM works correctly. DVD-A doesn't. Passing DD/DTS via the digital connection works fine too. (BM is done in your receiver/pre pro in that case anyway.)

The LFE level is 10 db too low for SACD/DVD-A compared to DD/DTS, but that isn't Pioneer's problem. It's a "standards" problem between SACD/DVD-A and DD/DTS. Most SACD/DVD-A players have this problem. You can *probably* adjust for this when doing the levels in the 45a config.

The ICBM "fixes" the BM problems, because the ICBM essentially replaces the bass management in a player.

There are some other threads about the 45a sub/lfe level you might want to try and dig up (all within the last 2 months or so...). Cheers!

 

[Tony Genovese]

I couldn't have said it any better myself .
Thanks, Kevin. BTW, the 45A is going back. I've decided to get a dedicated SACD player and an RP-91 for DVD. More money (and wires) but (hopefully) better sound and video.

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Tony- It's funny, because even though I'm still waiting for a Sony ES universal player, (the Jan review in SGHT of the 999ES was pretty good). But Secrets didn't rate the video so highly.

Maybe someday Panasonic will do a universal player...

 

[Tony Genovese]

Kevin:

I had the 999ES in my house for two days and was very disappointed. The SACD bass management was not very good (I found the bass boomy - without the ICBM of course) and the video quality, was average. The chroma bug was there in full force. I bought Moulin Rouge for the purpose of checking this out. I actually thought the video on the 45A was superior. And for $900...a poor value, IMO.

 

[Sach]

Tony How did you find the Moulin Rouge on 45A in terms of the chroma bug?

 

[Tony Genovese]

Not perfect, but much, much better than two Sonys: the 755 and the 999ES. For the 45A, the chroma bug was just noticeable, and only on pause. When things are moving it is wasn't perceptible on my system.

 

[Lewis Besze]

The LFE level is 10 db too low for SACD/DVD-A compared to DD/DTS, but that isn't Pioneer's problem. It's a "standards" problem between SACD/DVD-A and DD/DTS.

Just for clarification it'isn't a problem per se,DD/DTS employs a 10db boost,so all others are just fine[DVD-A/SACD/PCM].

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Lewis: The Stones SACDs are 2.0. With BM employed, you get sub output. I also have a 4.0 DVD-A disc. No sub output no matter what you do.

 

[Lewis Besze]

Thanks Kevin.