Pioneer 47Ai first impressions (1 Viewer)

[Sach]

SACD and iLink aside,Is this player better than the DV-38A?Mainly concerned with Audio/Video performance and build quality.

John, the 38A is much better built than 47Ai; I have not compared the two but the 47Ai has topnotch video and very good audio. It weighs 11 1/2 lbs and the bottomline is it plays all the discs very well.

 

[DanielSmi]

The power cord problem is on all Pioneer products with a detachable power cord. I noticed it on my 49tx also. The dv-37, and dv-38a don't have detachable power cords so they don't apply. I think the dv-47ai has better video than the 38a (which I have). It uses an Analog Devices 108MHz/14-bit video processor, while the 38a uses an unknown brand 57MHz/10-bit processor. I'm not sure as to whether 47ai has better sound quality or not; I'm not sure, but if I had to venture a guess I'd say the 38a was better. Because it' good build quality, and it's dual motorala processors.

John,
The model that will replace the 38a will be the dv-49avi. It will have a dvi output for video and i.link output for audio. I think you'll have to wait until CES to hear anything officially about it. They say it will retail for $3000 though, but that's still less than the Denon 9000.

Daniel Smith

 

[Kevin C Brown]

dv-49avi... Something to look forward to. *If* it doesn't have the chroma bug.

 

[Matt Odegard]

The Alice In Chains SACD is definitely not the best one to reference by. Ask in the music area for some better SACD suggestions.

Hey! AIC Unplugged and Jar of Fly's has some of the best acoustic music out their. Awesome acoustic/ bass quitar, and drums. What more do you need for reference sound?

 

[Paul Arnette]

The power cord problem is on all Pioneer products with a detachable power cord. I noticed it on my 49tx also. The dv-37, and dv-38a don't have detachable power cords so they don't apply.

Well, I guess I shouldn't feel singled out and that my power cord issue is unique to me. However, while the DV-38A might not have a detachable power cord, I can assure you that the DV-37 does.

The DV-37 power cord has a socket that is smaller than the DV-47Ai and attaches to the player much more securely than it as well. Having seen the smaller type of power cords on the Pioneer DVL-909 and Pioneer DV-37, I was surprised to see the larger, "computer-type" of power cord socket on the Pionner DV-47Ai. That being said, I've seen the larger type fit more snuggly on any computer I've ever seen than on the DV-47Ai.

It's certainly not an earth-shattering problem, just a minor quibble. I think any player that cost as much as that one does is going to ellict more complaints than a significantly cheaper one.

Thanks to everyone for their responses.

 

[LanceJ]

Someone needs to write to a Pioneer technician-NOT a customer service rep-about this "problem". And I mean a paper letter--e-mail's are easily ignored and don't carry nearly as much importance as a real letter. Pioneer built the darn thing so I'm pretty sure they will know how it really works.
I just can't imagine Pioneer, Sony, Panasonic, etc. (companies completely unrelated to one another) would design such horribly off-balance circuitry into their products.
And a simple test for bass management for dvd-audio: First, make sure the LFE channel is actually being used AND uses high levels of bass (i.e., don't use a solo flute recording!). For example, on some of EMI's classical dvd-audios, they are strictly four channel mixes-no center, and NO LFE channel. And I have heard of SACD's with this same exact set-up. Anyway, play the disc and turn up the bass levels so they are easily audible from the subwoofer (using whatever controls neccessary to accomplish this). Now, program the player for NO SUBWOOFER. If the player has bass management for dvd-audio, then the sub should stop playing anything. Now the player should automatically route that LFE's bass to the front mains if they (the mains) are set to LARGE-so now the main's woofers should start vibrating visibly. OR if your mains are set to SMALL then you system should now sound very thin & bassless.
LJ

 

[Hartwig Hanser]

Now, program the player for NO SUBWOOFER. If the player has bass management for dvd-audio, then the sub should stop playing anything. Now the player should automatically route that LFE's bass to the front mains if they (the mains) are set to LARGE-so now the main's woofers should start vibrating visibly.

This is exactly what my Pioneer 45 does not do. Setting to no sub leads to simple ignoring the .1 channel. I guess, its the same with the 47i.

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Anyone ever do a quick comnparison of the 45a vs 47ai on paper?

I have the 45a and very pleased with it, except for how much it weighs.

I can get a really good deal on the 47ai.

Just don't know if it'd be worth it or not.

 

[Sach]

Kevin,

to me both the 45A and 47Ai are biggest bang for the buck! I personally went with 47Ai as I thought the picture was much more gorgeous and detailed ( you may want to do your own comparison); also the 47Ai is fairly well built - they upped the weight by 2 1/2 ibs from the 47A.
I think the 45A does not have legato pro (I may be wrong) but to me legato pro improved the sound a lot. Then there is the ilink. I want to keep this machine for a long time and so wanted all the other extras.

Again, you won't go wrong with either one!

 

[Kevin C Brown]

The 45a is about 5.5 lbs. I thought the 47ai was more like 11-ish?
Review of the 45a in the latest S&V. They talked about the 6 dB lower level for the output mode with the test tones. I wonder if this is why some people's sub LFE level is low? (But it sounded like all the levels were simply reduced evenly.)
They did say it didn't measure quite as well as the 47a (and hence the 47ai).
If I didn't have this great deal dangled in front of me, I would have been perfectly happy with the 45a. Gosh dern upgradeitis!

 

[Ron Newsome]

Tim Schwartz said:

The sub amp was also set to 0 dB at 75 Hz crossover, which sounded balanced with the rest of the speakers.

What is the crossover set to on your receiver?

 

[Paul Arnette]

Hi all.

I have another question for those participating in this thread. I have a Mitsubishi WS-55905, and I was wondering what Video Adjust setting you have your Pioneer DV-47Ai set to?

Currently, I have mine set to CRT. I find that I like it a bit better than the Professional setting, which I suppose is an ISF calibrated setting? The Professional setting looks a litle too "dull" to me. However, the CRT setting seems to be a bit brighter than my old Pioneer DV-37. Do many of you have yours customized?

Thanks a lot.

 

[Rob Curtis]

What prices are you guys finding on the 47ai?

 

[LanceJ]

I've got a question about level setting:
#1 a) When setting the sub's output level, and a level meter is being used, does the level meter have a switch to filter out everything except the bass frequencies you are measuring? b) Are subwoofer test tones--from the receiver or a test disc--made up only of the lower frequencies that a typical subwoofer handles?
#2 a) Why is "reference level" being used to set levels? b) Who here knows what the "Fletcher/Munson Curve" is? Hint: this used to have it's own button on just about every receiver made until the early 90's (I know what it is, but I'm wondering if the test disc manufacturers know :frowning: ).
Thanks.

 

[Dan Hitchman]

A fly in the ointment:

When you engage bass management in the 47Ai, the DSD bitstream from SACD's is converted into PCM. The same thing happens if you use the FireWire connection to the 49i receiver, and in the latter product it also happens when using DSP modes with the DSD stream.

IMHO, this is absolutely not acceptable. If manufacturers are going to release universal format players and receivers/processors, the DSD stream must be uncompromised at all times.

You guys are not getting SACD at its full potential.

Dan

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Somebody put forth in a different thread that that isn't the case with the 45a and the 47ai.

Otherwise, why not have time alignment in addition to bass management for DSD (SACD)?

Time alignment would be easy to do as well if it was PCM...

 

[Ron Newsome]

All SACD players that employ bass management convert DSD to PCM, not just Pioneer. In spite of the conversion the 47Ai/49TXi combo still sounds great. I believe PCM has done, and is still doing(DVD-A), quite well for alot of people before DSD came along, so don't be so quick to knock it off. Why do some people bad-mouth previous technology when something new and improved comes along, all the while forgetting how great some of the old technology can be?

 

[KeithH]

Ron, DSD technology is supposed to be a key benefit of SACD. If you believe that, and I do not wish to turn this thread into a DSD vs. PCM debate, then conversion to PCM is undesirable.

I have often read that all SACD players perform bass management in the PCM domain, but in the thread running here at present on the Sony SCD-C555ES, it was said that the Sony players do not convert to PCM. Admittedly, the bass management performed by the Sony players is limited (no adjustable crossover, no time alignment).

The owner's manual for the 'C555ES says the following about the "multi-channel management function":

This player is equipped with a Multi-channel management function that sets the playback mode of the Super Audio CD by the DSD-DSP (built into the player) according to the layout or size of your speaker.

Now, this statement is not definitive, but I have to wonder what is meant by "DSD-DSP". Perhaps there is no PCM conversion.

I am not trying to turn this into a 'C555ES thread, but the issue of all SACD players converting DSD to PCM for bass management did come up.

 

[Ron Newsome]

That's all fine and dandy, but it just gets to me how some people act as if they're going to die if they can't have full DSD from beginning to end. CDs weren't perfect in the beginning, so why should one expect SACD playback to be. It's going to take some time to get it(DSD DSP) right, so just be patient and enjoy what's out there! People have lived with PCM for decades now, and they can live with it a little while longer.

 

[Mark Davenport]

It's been stated by Pioneer several times that the firewire output does not convert to PCM and the bass mang. portion does not convert to PCM. Where did you hear otherwise?