Panzer Dragoon Orta (1 Viewer)

[BrianB]

Its these same type of people that buy a game like Rez or Contra, pound through the 5 or so levels, "beat" the game and then proclaim that it was just ridiculously short and not worth the money

I've said it before, Romier, that a large portion of the US market simply buys games to beat them - they never intend to replay them, the games get sold back to EB as soon as they're 'done'.

 

[Kelley_B]

PDO will sell....just not to the masses, or the PlayStation Generation. There is something pure about the gameplay in PDO, REZ, Contra, et al...that is what keeps me coming back everytime.

It's really a shame that this game won't sell very well.....

 

[Kami]

Well if the demo is any indication of the final game, it has good replay value for me considering I polished off that demo 10 times in total yesterday! I just wish it was coming out sooner so I could find it in my stocking.

 

[Andre F]

It's really a shame that this game won't sell very well.....

Who really knows? We should just sit back and of course purchase the games ourselves. Then we can watch the sales figures...for now we are all just guessing.

 

[felix_suwarno]

"The new speed up and slowdown buttons eluded you? The abilility to morph at will?"

yes. i played the demo only once. the ability to morph...was it included in the demo?


"Though make no mistake they still have there audience that appreciates them."

yea, but that doesnt mean it will "sell". ya know? how many people out where were like us?

"Again I don't think old is proper term here Felix. "

thats what you think.


"I liken it to the "I saw the ending so thats the end! Time to return the game" attitude that so many gamers have nowadays."

whats wrong with that attitude? do you expect everybody's playing style to match you?

"I would however submit that the Contras, Rez's, Ikaruga's, Sky Odysee's and PD's of the world are very different experiences. I think game length is relative to the type of game you are playing. "

like i said, these games wont sell. there are only a few people who care about them. listen, rom, i am not here to bash these games. i am here to state my opinion about panzer dragoon orta. they could have made it in such a way to reach more people. whats the point, you ask? because with the current setting, it wont sell. why do you think i care? because i love panzer dragoon. they should have included more rpg elements so that at least the game could be played longer.

"Remember the days of beating a game on that REALLY hard difficulty!? The satisfaction you got from that? There are many folks on the forum that bought Contra Shattered Soldier and absolutely love the game for its challenging and "old" gameplay. They even play through on multiple difficulties to challenge themselves, see if they can conquer it. I know, I know.... many people would call that type of thinking "old". I say its simply forgotten and I think allot of gamers are starting to remember.(thankfully!) /steps off his soapbox now "

so what? panzer dragoon still wont reach a large audience. not many people will buy contra. and yes, the gameplay is old. it was invented in the '80s. even older than panzer dragoon.

"Then why not support the series off the bat then? You know I find it interesting that the crux of your post is how you believe that Panzer Dragoon Orta will not sell well even though you love the series. Then do your part to change your prediction. I don't need to hear nor do I care about reasons why said game won't sell. I've seen plenty of FUCKING AWESOME games go straight down the tubes sales wise. How about helping to change that? "

support the series off the bat? what do you think i am, rom? i am not a high schooler who still get money from parents and have time to play games all day long. i havent finished jsrf. i still have shenmue2 to play, not to mention metroid.

"You know what to expect from the series and you admit to being a big fan of it. What the hell does an 87 matter? Am I being a bit harsh? Your damn right. I've been waiting for this game for too long and I will do everything in my power to ensure that the series continues. I want a new Panzer Dragoon Saga. I want the series to continue, just as I want Shenmue to continue so your damn right I'm passionate about it. "

i dont care about whether you are passionate or not. i am not a stupid fanboy who will buy a game just because it is a sequel. i will get panzer eventually, believe it or not, but be realistic : if the game got 50 percent on gamerankings, i WILL not get it. live in your own world, romier. i dont have to buy all the games that you like right off the bat.

 

[Romier S]

live in your own world, romier.

Already do and its nice here. We actually play games more than once j/k

 

[felix_suwarno]

"That is about the funniest and most asinine statement I have ever heard in my entire lifetime. I suppose Super Mario Sunshine was the first platformer ever. WHOAH NEWSFLASH THE LEGEND OF ZELDA IS WHOLE NEW CONCEPT! SPLINTER CELL IS FIRST EVER STEALTH ACTION GAME! Doom 3 is so totally early 90's too.. Good god Felix, please name me one genre that was not created, innovated, changed, tweaked, updated..so forth so on in the 80's and even more so today. "

tweaked, thats the word. shenmue, deus ex came to mind. they had NEW gameplay elements, they mixed things up very well. also mario64. nobody else had made that kind of game before it. it was the first free roaming 3D platformer ever, the one who set a new standard. at least they had something really new to offer when they were released for the first time. panzer dragoon orta, based on the info i have read so far, only have minor enhancement. what about the so called new contra? what does it have to offer? does it have any new elements in it? does it move the genre forward? if not, the gameplay is old. you guys seem to think that if i called it old then it means it is bad and i hate it. if there were a new thunderforce game i would also be interested in it.

in my opinion, people these days are already spoiled by the technology itself, and they arent easily impressed anymore. the first time people saw panzer dragoon ( with the giant flying centipedes ), they dropped their jaws. mine too. but i dont think that applies to people nowadays.

 

[BrianB]

also mario64. nobody else had made that kind of game before it. it was the first free roaming 3D platformer ever

No it wasn't. Jumping Flash was a free roaming 3D platformer long before Mario64 was even announced. And it was VERY good.

 

[Romier S]

does it move the genre forward? if not, the gameplay is old

It needs to be innovative to impress eh? Most definitely doesn't apply to today. Wheres J-Fo's post about high expectations when you need it.

 

[BertFalasco]

I got Romier's back on this. Appreciate games for what joy they bring you, not judged on entertaining according to today's standards.

 

[felix_suwarno]

"I fail to see how the games origins being in the 80's qualify that as being "old" considering the origins of almost every title released today can be traced back to a specific genre innovator or creator."

see, they are updated. based on the reviews about the new contra game, i dont think there is any update to the gameplay. in deus ex, you are given lots of choiced about how you do a mission. is there any other game, prior to deus ex that gave players that? now compare that to contra, ikaruga, etc etc. any update? tweak, sure, minor tweaks. they are called as "old school games" for a reason.

about me missing lots of good titles...like i said, i have no time to play lots of games. i got to be selective. is that so hard to understand?

"You've proven to be the very definition of that type of person with this statement, ironic isnt it? "

nope, it is not. if you are still impressed by ordinary visual effects, well, i have nothing to say.

 

[felix_suwarno]

oh about jumping flash. i totally forgot about it, reason :

i had no playstation.
i was aware of the game, but i saw it as a third person action game like fade to black / tomb raider, so i didnt really realize it was a platformer game. i mean, the camera faces to the way the character faces, right?

 

[Romier S]

if you are still impressed by ordinary visual effects, well, i have nothing to say.

I still play my original NES for crying out loud. I own 13 consoles ranging from the Atari-NES up to Xbox. The original Castlevania is one of my favorite games of all time. To hell with the graphics.
I think we are done Felix. We are two totally different type of gamers here who wont come to an understanding on this. Like I said, enjoy your 87's and aboves man, Im done.

 

[Kelley_B]

Felix are you a bit jaded? Maybe you should step back from gaming for a bit.

 

[felix_suwarno]

do you guys still think i am here to bash the old school games? i simply called the gameplay old, that doesnt mean i dont play snes / genesis games every now and then.

jaded? i dont know, maybe yea. the more game i play, the more selective i am.one of my biggest recent mistake was to purchase starfox on release date. that game was slow and boring as hell.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

I've said it before, Romier, that a large portion of the US market simply buys games to beat them - they never intend to replay them, the games get sold back to EB as soon as they're 'done'

I'm sorry, but this quote just stuck out like a sore thumb and I MUST respond.

First, let me say that if and when I get an X-Box, I will pick up PDO. It looks beautiful and I haven't played a PD game ever, so it looks like I'm in for a good experience.

Second, in reference to the quote above, that is not the fault of the consumer. If you make a game and you want people to play it over and over, YOU have to do something about it. Give them a REASON to play it over and over. Don't make a game, include no bonuses, and expect everyone who buys it to play it to death. If a game is extremely fun or addictive or offers special secrets once you complete bonus objectives or beat the game on another difficulty or in a time limit or has a deep multiplayer mode, then people will play it more beyond 'beating' it.

I have MANY games that I've only played through once (if that, for some of them) and I have others I've played many times. I only played through ICO once, but I've spent probably more game time on Frequency that I did on FFX. Why? Because Frequency is really fun and offers bonuses for people who are good at it (you unlock more levels). ICO, while an amazing experience, has no bonuses, unlockables, secrets, or alternate paths. There's one secret weapon in the game, but even that is kinda dull. Nonetheless, the game still stands as a great game that I will keep in case I end up playing it again in the future.

Now some people on this board grew up in the glory days of arcades and the "hi-score." You go to the arcade with your friends, try to get a really high score, then see if your friends can beat it. Nowadays, most gamers don't look at games like that anymore. I play a game to get all the secrets, unlock everything, finish the game, and be proud. I don't replay levels to beat them faster or get a higher score than my friends. Many classic games ran on the "hi-score" principle. They would be relatively short games that would rely on the "hi-score" principle to get people to keep playing them. Now that you can buy games and play them at home, this has changed. Instead of getting a high score, people want something in return. Personally, I see nothing wrong with that. Instead of hoping people will try to get a high score, you need to give them some incentive. That incentive turns into them getting a high score, then getting something new that will keep them playing even more.

An example of a game that I don't like that much that has a big reward at the end as incentive for playing it is Sonic Adventure 2 Battle. The game, IMO, is bad. The fact that you can unlock the original first level from Sonic 1 after getting everything is what keeps me playing. If that wasn't in there, I would have stopped playing a LONG time ago. Adding in that little incentive keeps me playing.

 

[Romier S]

Nonetheless, the game still stands as a great game that I will keep in case I end up playing it again in the future.

Ah but you kept it. You had the foresight to say to yourself "Man this game was great, I know I'll want to play through it again in the future and I will cherish it in my collection until then.". You experienced ICO and appreciated the game for what it was. I personally dont think thats kind of person BrianB was commenting on. (of course I dont want to put words in his mouth either)
Its the person that buys Contra, plows through the levels on easy with unlimited continues completely missing the point of the gameplay. The have no intention to try a harder setting. They feel they have conquered said game and then jump on these internet forums and complain that the game was too short and how the developers shortchanged them. They have no desire to understand the fundamentals of the game or to even experience the game. They just race to the end and return it ASAP at which point they can begin there whine sessions about how they need something different to play. In most cases I don't even think they stopped to enjoy what they were playing.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

In most cases I don't even think they stopped to enjoy what they were playing

I agree that this is a problem. Many people HATED ICO because it was short and offered no bonuses, extras, etc. beyond that one hidden weapon. The thing is, ICO was an original idea, creation, and experience. People tend to think of games based on their length more than the quality of the gameplay during that length.

One thing I don't like is people comparing games to movies. Some people go to a movie every friday, and unless they're lucky they probably see a good amount of crappy movies. They say that they will spend about $7 for a 2 hour movie and $50 for a 5 hour game, so the movie is more worth the money to time ratio. The thing is, would you rather pay $7 to see a crappy movie or $50 for an amazing game? Considering you also BUY the game and keep it, it's an arguably better deal. To buy a movie, you have to pay about $15-20 (more for a DVD), so that 5 hour game because an equal or better value in the money to time ratio.

In other words, people are shallow (I guess).

 

[BrianB]

i was aware of the game, but i saw it as a third person action game like fade to black / tomb raider, so i didnt really realize it was a platformer game. i mean, the camera faces to the way the character faces, right?

It's nothing like those games you mentioned - it's 100% a platformer, albeit a spin on what's become the standard 3D character platformer. I loved it - Jumping Flash was innovative, original & very well put together. Too short for Morgan though

 

[felix_suwarno]

i know there was a sequel, and thats it. maybe it didnt sell? if there was a remake or jp flash 3, i think i want to try it.