Ohio kids found in cages (1 Viewer)

[MarkHastings]

Not 100%. The "more rational" comment wasn't the best wording. I meant that parents tend to have a passion that may not make them as biased.

Anyways, It was more backlash to the no kids statment. Sorry, I just get heated because people tend to treat my parnetal opinions as 'unjust' because I don't have kids.

I usually respond to them with "I (along with millions of other Americans) have never been president, but this country still allows us to decide on the fate of the candidates"

 

[Jack Fanning]

Yeah, like Bill Cosby said: "The folks that think they are the best parents are always those who don't have kids"

 

[Paul Padilla]

I'm with you there, Mark. I hate the classic, "When you have kids, you'll understand." I'm no punk spouting off. I've been married for 17 years and we've chosen not to have kids.

The fact that one has procreated does not imbue one with inspired knowledge just as my choice not to reproduce does not make me an imbacile.

 

[MarkHastings]

Sorry to derail, but I can not tell you how angry I get when people do this to me. It's SO degrading. I'd get into specifics, but this is not the thread for it.

 

[cafink]

They caged the children in two dimensions?

 

[Lynda-Marie]

I'm not a parent, nor will I be having kids.

The ramifications of WHY these kids were caged, and the developmental issues that might crop up aside, I have only one major objection, and that relates to safety:

If there were a fire in the house, how would the kids have been evacuated if the parents/foster parents were cut off from helping them - i.e. the hallway between the parents/foster parents quarters and the children had caught fire and the parents/foster parents unable to get through to free them in a timely fashion?

I have firefighters as good friends, and safety is an obsession with them.

 

[Jack Fanning]

'nuff said.

 

[Paul Padilla]

I have a cousin who works with the 911 service mapping department and she's recently become obsessive about disaster preparedness after Katrina...in your face, shaking her finger saying, "What are you doing to get prepared." It's an occupational hazard with people who witness the kinds of things that they do. (except my cousin only hears about it second hand...she isn't in the field.)

My only observation about the fire safety scenario is that it would have to assume that the people in question were thinking rationally in the first place. You're absolutely right, but their decision to put the kids in cages doesn't lend itself to considering the fire safety issues.

 

[Jeff Gatie]

Try having my brother. He's a cop and a lawyer. First he tells you what he's going to arrest you for, then he tells you what you have to do to sue for false arrest. I go crosseyed listening to him (but he's a good brother to have, nonetheless).

 

[ThomasC]

Part-time cop, full-time lawyer, or the other way around? Or does he full-time both jobs?

 

[Citizen87645]

So he is actually a good ambulance chaser?

 

[andrew markworthy]

Oops! I was (honestly!) going to add something about this in my earlier post but got distracted. It relates to something known as a critical period. The basic idea is that there are certain periods in your life when you must be exposed to particular types of intellectual stimulation (such as language) or a skill (such as adult-level language use) will not develop. It used to be thought that this was a very restricted age range but it's now known that these critical periods are much wider than originally supposed (ironically enough, largely through research on some attic children).

To be honest, it's a few years since I've lectured on attic kids, so I'm not absolutely up to date with the research literature. As far as I recall, the underlying reason may be neurological (i.e. the relevant bits of the brain either remain undeveloped or are taken over by other sections) but it's possible it may be a simple learning thing.

I think it's worth reiterating though that a lot of studies of attic and feral children have a lot of confounding factors, so it's difficult to be certain that you're looking at a pure effect. So e.g. if ability X is compromised, it may be because there was lack of exposure to X, or it may be due to a genetic problem, poor diet, illness, etc, or an interaction between two or more of the possible causes. My personal hunch is that the critical period explanation is right and that it's neurological, but I wouldn't like to swear in court to it.

 

[Joe Szott]

To all the folks saying there might be a "rational" explanation for all of this caging and who don't have kids, please by all means do NOT have kids.

To say that you don't understand is stating the obvious truth that if you think cages + kids = rational, then guess what? "You don't (or can't?) understand!"

Children are not animals, and I can't think of almost any scenario where treating them as such is a "rational" decision. On the contrary, even young children have a large amount of their human-ness intact even if they don't have the maturity or the intellect to express it. Case in point: abused children that grow up to become f'd up adults even though the abuse occurred at a very young age and there were no repeat abuses. Just because they are more excitable and have limited patience, it's crazy to think of or treat children as anything other than young people.

Added on top of that is due to their immaturity and limited abilities they are dependant on us, their parents, to nuture, guide, and act as models for them to become responsible adults. Treating your kid like an animal just betrays that fundamental agreement of parenting to a degree that if you don't get it, you just can't be made to understand it.

It's like me agreeing to care for a quadroplegic (sp?) and then wheeling him up to a corner and leaving him there. Dump some food down his throat once a day, empty his excrement, but nothing else (maybe move him to bed at night.) On paper it would seem I am caring for his needs, but in reality it is extremely cruel and unusual punishment to treat another human this way intentionally. It's a total betrayal of what "caring" for this person means, rational reason doesn't seem to enter into it.

 

[Kirk Gunn]

The phrase "attic children" comes close to making me physically ill....

 

[MarkHastings]

Joe, I don't think ANYONE is agreeing that caging kids is rational.

What I am saying is, "rationally speaking", I am not going to sentence the parents to death so quickly before understanding all of the facts.

Like I said before, if it turns out that they did this out of pure evil, then off with their heads, BUT if they are psychologically disturbed and truly believe they were doing the right thing, I'm not going to be so quick with the axe.

Should they be accountable? Sure! But killing them in that instance, would be seriously wrong and would be even more troublesome to me than what they did in the first place.

Let me give you an example: If a guy walks down the street and purposely walks toward you and bumps into you, you would be correct in shoving him back, BUT if a retarded person walked down the street and bumped into you, damn you if you lay a hand on that person.

 

[Paul Padilla]

 

[Jeff_Standley]

I dont think people are saying this to put you into a category of idiots, but more of the above mentioned category. Although there are those few occasions where someone will say it just to be an ass.

I dont mean to get off on that issue so bad but I had to clarify as someone who now has kids. It does change once you have them. So take that how you want, and it is not meant to be degrading to either of you as I have great respect for the both of you through the many post you both have written on the HTF.

 

[Paul Padilla]

Well...whenever you have no kids, you'll understand.

 

[Jeff_Standley]

 

[MarkHastings]

Not so much that they treat me like an idiot, but the fact that they feel some how 'more in tune with the world' or 'in some exclusive club' or 'more sensitive than I am', etc.

I once had a 'so called' friend tell me that I would not understand the meaning of responsibility until I had kids. He never said that having kids adds to your responsiblity, he basically said that I had absolutely NO responsibility because I didn't have kids.