*** Official The Prestige Discussion Thread (1 Viewer)

[DougDoe]

I hope noone ,who has yet to watch the flick, read this discussion AOY...

(Admin note - in the official discussion threads, no spoilers are required for discussing the film in question. It's assumed that the reader has seen the movie, or isn't bothered by spoilers.)

 

[Ray H]

Saw it earlier. Great movie.

One thing that got to me was Alfred's relationship with his wife and child. The sacrifice of it. On one hand, he loves his wife, but he can't really express it to her, even when he's in the next room. I'm assuming it was Alfred who loved Sarah, get her pregnant, etc. But why the constant trade off? There's the crucial scene in their marriage (their last scene together). Presumably, it's Fallon telling her he doesn't love her. Meanwhile, Alfred's in the next room with his daughter. Did Sarah know they were brothers? She knew something, but when I viewed the scenes, I did so thinking she was actually speaking to Alfred and addressing him as such, so it'll be an interesting thing to pick up on next time.

Did Christian Bale actually play the brother in the makeup? I never really guessed it in the end, but I did notice some of the clues but failed to put two and two together. Alfred loved Fallon much more than I assumed he would considering the character is in the shadows most of the time. Not to mention Fallon's love for Alfred's daughter (though, of course this is actually Alfred, but I'm going by what I knew at the time). I also noticed Bale's eyebrow, but I spent most of the time wondering whether or not he had that in Batman Begins! I noticed it was gone in other shots when I remembered about it, but I figured the angle just hid it. But in the end, what fooled me is that last closeup shot of Fallon/Alfred/whoever - just the guy in the makeup. Prior to that, I never really got a good look at the character, but that shot seemed to cement it, because I didn't think the two looked alike. Actually, there was something in the back of mind that there was something definitely up with the character's appearance, but I disregarded it. I guess for most of the film, he did look like a guy in a bad wig and fake beard, but that shot actually made him look real.

So Fallon took the drop and let his brother live? That's sacrifice! And also, it was Fallon behind bars the whole time? That's fairly confusing. I realize when I think of the Alfred character, I automatically assume it's the one that made it out but is it really the one we got to know? It's all pretty mind warping.

 

[Shawn_KE]

Thought it was awesome. Nice twists and left you with a lot to talk about.

One thing though, since Cane's character was seen at thd with Alfred, did he know all the time they were brothers? If so, that means he was telling Jackman the truth the whole time, he was using a double lol.

 

[Michael:M]

Just saw it this afternoon, and after reading the remarks here, I'm anxious to see it again, though I will likely wait until it's out on DVD.

Dumb question: was it established for sure that Fallon was a twin? I thought that Borden had gotten a Tesla machine for himself and made a double. Now I'm feeling pretty stupid, and wondering how I missed the movie establishing it was a twin, not a Tesla clone.

Thought the film does a great job making you flip flop your loyalties, and even has you thinking that Borden is cheating on his wife and blowing off his daughter. He sort of is, but it makes more sense for him to send Fallon to the zoo if he's a clone or twin and the child doesn't know.

In the scene where Fallon was buried alive, I guessed that Borden was somehow still alive and pulling the strings to get Borden convicted and executed. I wasn't disappointed that I guessed, as the movie still had plenty of surprises to give and, indeed, the movie really isn't about surprises. As others have remarked, it's about obssession.

I don't know that I'll own it, but I will certainly be giving it a second viewing.

 

[Cory S.]

Caught the film a second time this afternoon and it's even more ingenious than it already was.

First off, Fallon not Alfred, was the one who married and loved Sarah and had the child with, not Alfred. At the end of the film, it's Fallon coming to get his daughter, not Alfred. I made that mix up the first time I saw it but seeing it a second time, you appreciate the nuance of Bale's performance. Fallon is the one who exacts revenge on Angier at the end, eventhough he wasn't the one playing the game with Angier.

The more aggitated of the Borden brothers in the film is Alfred. And the visual key is the left eyebrow.

Originally, I thought Cutter knew very early on that Alfred had a brother but seeing it today made it clearer. He had his suspicions because of the "Transported Man" trick but it wasn't until Angier took possession of Fallon's daughter that he went out and found out that Alfred had a twin.

Another thing about the film I love is the Tesla. After researching, it's fact that Tesla was in Colorado Springs in 1899 and that Edison and he were actual adversaries during that time. Also, Tesla's machine is based very closely on an actual diagram of Tesla's work. Plus, he did have theories that dealt with space and time. The film just took it further, since Tesla himself didn't know what his machine was, with the idea of duplicating or "cloning." Still, if you understand the film, Tesla's essentially searching for transportation.

Again, alot of that stuff is obvious but still, great piece of work by Nolan.

 

[Michael:M]

Seeing it put me in the mood to watch Batman Begins again. After seeing what the Nolans do with Bale and Caine here, I am all that more excited for The Dark Knight.

Thanks to those letting others know about Alfred's eyebrow. I'll be looking for it next time I watch.

My impression, from this first viewing, is that Cutter switched allegiences once he understood what Angiers was doing (commiting murder for the act, in that he was killing a duplicate with each show). It's entirely possible Cutter was never loyal to Angiers, but, again, a second viewing will help gain some insight.

 

[Joe D]

I usually wait until the DVD to watch a movie a 2nd time, but I might end up going back to the theater for this one.

What a fantastic film, I've been thinking about how much fun the 2nd time around will be on this film all weekend.

I also can't wait for The Dark Knight, I loved Batman Begins.

 

[Haggai]

Guys, I'm sorry, but I thought this script was terrible. They go looking for a double for Hugh, and...what do you know, they find one, and he's also played by Hugh? Geez. And there's Bale sending Jackman off to America on false pretenses, where the real Tesla, not a fictional character, actually happens to have invented a carbon copy cloning machine? Come on. And then the he-had-an-identical-twin-along ploy...give me a break. That plot device shouldn't get past a Screenwriting 101 class. Not to mention the unmotivated source of the hatred between the two main characters--whether it was one twin or the other who tied the wrong knot, why didn't he just own up to the mistake? Or was it intentional? I couldn't even tell.

In the review thread, Chuck said "it's a film Hitchcock would have been proud of"...sorry, my friend, but I think you need to see a lot more Hitchcock! Seriously, this kind of surprise-gotcha tactic and reliance on supernatural plot devices was not something Hitchcock was ever interested in (on the latter point, The Birds is really the only exception, where their sudden attacking is never explained). He relied on some admittedly outlandish plots to achieve suspense, but he wasn't just focusing on trying to trick the audience.

I like all the lead actors in The Prestige, and the production values are top-notch, so I can't totally write this one off. But, the only plot element that worked for me--the intrigue that accompanied the dueling loyalties of Scarlett's character--was barely developed. In a general sense, the plot reminded me quite a bit of Sleuth, from the early '70s, which starred Laurence Olivier and (coincidentally) Michael Caine. In that one, it's just two guys trying to outdo each other with various cons and trickery--no twins, no cloning machines--in what eventually escalates to a duel to the death. That's more or less the premise of The Prestige as well, and with the added presence of Scarlett as a potential center for a love triangle, that could have made for a more focused story. Instead, we get identical twins and a cloning device. Sorry to harsh everyone's buzz, but I expected FAR better from Nolan than this.

 

[BrettGallman]

While I think your other criticisms are valid (especially Jackman playing his own double), I don't agree with this one because I don't think it's a coincidence at all. I'm sure Bale's character, given his obsession with transportation, would know that Tesla was building a machine designed to do just that. In turn, he knew that Jackman's character would also learn his, leading him to the false conclusion that Bale's character used such a machine to accomplish the trick. It was just to throw him off the scent, and it worked. Also, is it possible that Bale's twin isn't a twin, but a clone created by Tesla's machine, meaning he was telling Jackman the truth the whole time? I really need to see it again.

Also, I'm with Chuck (in the review thread) when he says that the real Angier (Jackman's character) was killed by his double upon his first use of the machine. However, at the end, doesn't "Angier" say something about having courage to step into the machine because he doesn't know if he'll end up being the man in the box or the prestige? Like I said, I really need to see this again. I absolutely loved this movie, and only have a few minor quibbles, with the aforementioned Jackman playing his own double thing being one. That felt a bit contrived, but it doesn't ruin the movie at all. I also didn't mind the science-fiction element of the cloning machine coming into the story either. It worked for me.

 

[Rakesh.S]

I'd suggest reading about Tesla..The man was developing crazy theories on the space-time continuum. The movie just takes it one step further, which I had no problem with. Tesla didn't even know that he had a cloning device until Hugh Jackman shows him the hats and cats. I also liked the mention of Edison and alternating current.

The clues about the twin are shown throughout the movie -- one Bale has a chunk of his left eyebrow missing. If you think about it, Michael Caine's character may have known this, and when Jackman kept pressing him about the secret behind the "transported man", he tells him, "He uses a double." -- this is actually true, in a way.

There are a lot of interpretations and ways to think about this movie. It almost plays into the Michael Caine narrative about the three acts - you're basically left looking for the secret....behind the movie.

 

[MielR]

Saw it last nite- great film!

Definitely needs multiple-viewings, tho.

Having the Tesla/Edison stuff in there helped give the story credibility, I thought. Otherwise, some elements of the plot may have been hard to swallow.

 

[Tim Glover]

Saw this tonight and I have some issues. I liked it...but wanted more from it. Didn't like Jackman playing his own double. That took me out of the film. I understand it was necessary to some degree...but it did take me out.

I thought alot of it was very good and some of it ok. I am really tired and will write more later after a nights rest.

My knee jerk reaction was Wow, clever film at times....but seemed I should be liking this more than I do.

More later.

 

[MielR]

That's my only real quibble with the film as well. But, I guess it would have been pretty difficult to find someone in real life who looks like Hugh (and is also as tall- he's like 6'4"), but then- that makes it seem even less plausable to find an actor in the movie who looks like Hugh....but I still loved the film.

 

[L. Anton Dencklau]

..

 

[Cory S.]

I'm not so sure the Tesla machine actually "clones". I found this over at the chud forums and after seeing the film twice and rethinking certain moments, this makes more sense to me:

"Small clarification on the clones...they're not clones. They are the same. A clone is like a twin..completely seperate lives. At the moment of the teleportation, there is no original. Tesla's comment that sometimes science doesn't do what you except is because he designed a machine to teleport something...and the reason it worked (but not like he expected) is because of theory he was unaware of, harkening back (or forward) to Schroedinger's cat and Uncertainty Theory. An object can exist as a wave representation in two locations until observed, collapsing the wave into a set reality. But in Tesla's machine, the wave form doesn't collapse, and both versions are real, with the same history up until that point. Neither is a copy, neither is an original.
This concept bugs the shit out of alot of people.
Watch Angier's reaction just before he's shot the first time...he claims he's the original (which is why some people think the original teleports, leaving a copy). Other people wonder why the machine "clones" people for a teleport...again, it doesn't. It collapses the the translocation wave in a solid form, something that was outside of Tesla's field, that he would have stumbled across if he had built this machine. I have a sneaking suspicion Priest dreamed up this gizmo simply by crossing Telsa's experiments with quantum theory.
The reason this minor distinction is important is because Angier never understood that he's not murdering his "clone," he's not risking being the man in the box...he's always the man in the box, and the Prestige. He's stuck with a different hell, a different take on the duality Borden deals with, and both men did it to themselves."

What do you guys think?

 

[Michael:M]

I agree that the Tesla machine makes duplicates, not clones - essentially an exact copy, with memories and all.

However, I'm not convinced that the original is the one teleported. Angier has seen the machine work - why would he put a gun within reach of his double rather than himself? I don't recall what he says in the theater when he first copies himself, though.

I'm definitely going to have to see this one again.

 

[Cory S.]

Michael,

I'm still trying to figure that out myself after seeing it twice. Is it possible that he learned how to switch the feed in order for the "original" to end up in the prestige and the "other original" end up at the bottom of the stage?

Remember, the top hat never moves so technically, the "original" stays put.

 

[Jason Roer]

The answer is in one of Angier's lines at the end. He says something to the effect of, "Do you know how hard it was never knowing if I would end up in the box or be the Prestige?" He was speaking to Alfred at the time. Wish I was like Tarantino and could remember the exact words, but it was something to that effect. Corey hit it on the head with Schrodinger.

Cheers,

Jason

 

[nickGreenwood]

I loved this film. I was expecting a lot from those that were involved, Bale, Jackman, Nolan, Caine and etc. It more than lived up to my expectations. Both myself and my date loved the movie and want to see it again at least once.

The movie is based on a book, which might make some more sense and I'm inclined to go read the book now.

I was a little taken out when Scarlett just disappeared at the end of the film, I actually caught myself asking "where is she?" i assume she got fed up with both Borden and Angier and left, but a leaving scene or some small comment would've been nice. Maybe I missed it.

Christian Bale is one of the best actors right now, imo. He totally nailed the character and the character of Fallon. I knew ahead of time that Robert had a twin, I had read it on wikipedia, but even though I had that "spoiled" I still like trying to figure out how it's all done. I never once felt cheated knowing that he was a twin. Though I figured out that Fallon was the twin pretty quick and had it confirmed in one shot where it was obviously Bale, he has a pretty identifiable face.

Jackman played his part great, the reading of the journal's was interesting and both learning that they had both sort of played each other with them was interesting.

The ending for me ranks up there with Psycho, Seven and Fight Club, all four of which are amazing to me.

 

[Andrew Bunk]

Non-story related question:

I found it interesting that this was a WB-Touchstone joint venture. Since Insomnia and Batman Begins are both WB, I get the feeling that Touchstone could only get Nolan if WB let him. I just hope it's WB and not Disney that has the home video rights. I suspect we'd be better off with this as a WB DVD and/or HD-DVD.