*** Official THE LORD OF THE RINGS: THE RETURN OF THE KING Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Movies' started by BertFalasco, Dec 15, 2003.

  1. MatS

    MatS Screenwriter

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    quote:

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    Did anyone else think, when Theoden rode around hittng the spears with his sword, that it seemed stupid to do something like that and risk damaging your main weapon immediately before a hige battle?
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    No, I was too busy having goosebumps.
    ditto....Bernard Hill as Theoden was one hell of a King, his 'quality' shined in this movie


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    And Shelob really was incredible. As others have commented, it's hard to think of her as a special effect. Brilliantly executed.

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    More than her looks, it's her motion that is the creepiest and most realistic. I have never seen a giant spider but the FX guys must have.
    what I thought was even more creepier than Shelob was her web and when Frodo was trying to slash his way through it
     
  2. Wayne Bundrick

    Wayne Bundrick Cinematographer

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    I didn't see it as risky. He was just lightly clanking the flat of the blade against the spears, not fiercely chopping at them. It would be far more risky to carry into battle a sword that couldn't withstand that treatment.

    I thought it was an honorable gesture for the king to make to his men, and it added something to the scene that we haven't seen before in Braveheart.
     
  3. Brian W.

    Brian W. Screenwriter

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    More awards. Both the NY Daily News' critics (Jack Matthews, and I forgot the name of the other one) and the Southeastern Film Critics Association have all voted Return of the King the best movie of the year. The Southeastern critics also voted Jackson Best Director.
     
  4. Richard Kim

    Richard Kim Producer

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    First of all, who says that ROTK has to start with a bang to be good? Also, the title of the film is THE RETURN OF THE KING, and Arwen's fate ties in heavily with Aragorn's. As we see in the film, Arwen's sickness is the motivating factor in Aragorn taking the Paths of the Dead and finally embracing his destiny.
     
  5. Mark_vdH

    Mark_vdH Screenwriter

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    One little question for the more knowledgable:

    The one ring extends Bilbo's life, delaying old age. When the ring goes to Frodo, Bilbo ages very fast in the months that follow. However, Gollum has the ring in his possession for 500 years, has lost it many years (60?) ago, but is still jumping around quite youthfully......how can this be?
     
  6. Joseph Young

    Joseph Young Screenwriter

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    My guess is, since Bilbo has the ring for a considerably shorter amount of time than Gollum, the ring's life-preserving powers didn't take hold quite as severely on him, so he descended into old age faster. Had Bilbo kept the ring for as long as Gollum, he would have looked quite a bit like Gollum.
     
  7. Craig S

    Craig S Producer
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    I also think that Gollum's overwhelming desire to retake the Ring kept him going in the 60-some years following it's loss. I believe that even had he not fallen into the fire, he would not have survived the Ring's destruction for very long (in a way, similar to Sauron & the Wraiths, whose whole existence was tied to the Ring).
     
  8. Daniel DeLawter

    Daniel DeLawter Stunt Coordinator

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    Actually, I think he does that in an attempt to keep the lines coordinated for a massive, complicated charge. (I just thought of that now, both times when I saw the film, I was only focused on my own awe)
     
  9. Romier S

    Romier S Producer

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    If that is the extent of Rohirrim craftsmanship than they have more to worry about than Sauron and the end of the world of men.[​IMG]
     
  10. DaveGTP

    DaveGTP Cinematographer

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    I thought of it, but discounted it after a few moments.

    As far as the rapid aging, that seemed to be something that PJ & Co threw in - Bilbo just starts aging normally again once he doesn't have the ring any more. In the movie, it's rapidly compressed aging because the time in the movie is compressed. Side effect of tinkering with the story.

    As for Gollum aging, I would say that he has been changed from a hobbit lifespan to whatever wretched thing he is now, so that he would have a different lifespan (one that reflects his new form).
     
  11. Clay-F

    Clay-F Stunt Coordinator

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    I dont remember the year, but in an old western a guy was shot in the leg (I think it was the leg). He let out a scream, and that scream has been used as a joke for years since.....

    I dont remember hearing it in FOTR. If it was during the opening, then it was probably just drowned out for me. In TTT its used as a guy is falling off a wall on helms deep. Its used twice in ROTK during the Pelenor battle I think.....
     
  12. Holadem

    Holadem Lead Actor

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    Good Lord, I think it was an elf! I had never heard of the Wilhelm scream until today, but when I heard that soundbite here, I recognized it immediately [​IMG].

    --
    H
     
  13. MatthewLouwrens

    MatthewLouwrens Producer

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    Gee, I was just joking about the whole "Theoden damaging his sword" thing. I didn't think people would take it seriously.
     
  14. DonRoeber

    DonRoeber Screenwriter

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    I wonder if Jackson will wear a worn out blue polo shirt and black shorts to the oscars? I have trouble picturing him in anything but that.

    I always thought he looked like a modern day hobbit. [​IMG]
     
  15. Matt Stone

    Matt Stone Lead Actor

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    Okay, I checked. What I think you were seeing were the three Hobbits and their shadows. I even mistook the shadows for more figures at first.

    About the Smeagol/Deagol opening...I love it more every time I see it. It amazes me watching Smeagol's reaction to first seeing the ring. You can see the addiction grow on Serkis's face. Not to mention the murder and the subsequent transformation being one of the more haunting sequences in recent memory.
     
  16. StevenA

    StevenA Second Unit

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    I've been staying away from these threads until after seeing the film, so I'm sure some or all of these criticisms have already been aired and perhaps discussed, but here goes anyway with a brief summary of my thoughts on the film, FWIW...

    For fans of the book, seeing each of the three films for the first time has to be the hardest, and with FOTR and TTT I only fell in love with the films when seeing the EEs. So, with that in mind, perhaps it's not surprising that my initial reaction to ROTK has been one of disappointment. What worries me, though, is that the aspects that I feel PJ really botched may not be "fixable" via the addition of scenes for the EE.

    I have many problems with the film, but here are my two biggest grievances:

    1: I re-read the Shelob sequence just before leaving to see the film, and was struck by how weak PJ's version was. In the book, the tunnel is pitch black. Obviously this would have been problematic in the film, but PJ has the tunnel so brightly lit that he erases the fear factor almost entirely, and, most importantly, the light of Earendil, which is supposed to give light to Sam and Frodo "in dark places", has virtually no effect at all!! I was stunned by how that crucial gift from Galadriel was rendered utterly meaningless in the film. Also, PJ's "twist" on the Sam and Frodo relationship just prior to this sequence left a very bad taste in my mouth. Why did he have to adhere to the old Hollywood reliance on conflict and resolution in this case. Why can't two characters stand by each other through thick and thin, like they do with only minor lapses in Tolkien's text. I wanted to see Sam grasping Frodo's hand, supporting and encouraging him as they stagger through the terrible darkness of Shelob's lair. Not to be.

    2. Also on the topic of darkness, Tolkien's concept of the "day without a dawn" was gone! That is one of the defining aspects of the third book, capturing the impending doom so vividly. I remember feeling the oppressive weight of that dark sky when reading the book, and really feeling that the end of these peoples' world was at hand.

    Darkness, both figuritively and literally, was missing from this overly bright film. ROTK is a very dark book. The film let me down in this regard. Also, there were mmany scenes (Shelob being one) which are so perfectly cinematic as written by Tolkein, I can't believe PJ and co felt they had to fiddle with them!

    The one moment which brought tears to my eyes was the lighting of the beacons, and there were other glorious moments. And we clearly haven't seen the definitive version of this film as yet (I certainly hope the ridiculously rushed second half is expanded considerably). But, for now, this is my least favorite of the three. And as for being the most faitful to the book, I can't see that at all. FOTR still holds that place, I feel.
     
  17. Matt Stone

    Matt Stone Lead Actor

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    At first, I also had a problem with the lack of literal darkness in the film. After seeing it a third time, it dawned on me why it doesn't bother me anymore...Minas Tirith looks damn good during the day [​IMG]

    Also, after having the entire battle of Helm's Deep take place at night, I'm not sure I'd want another night battle. I agree that the concept of no dawn is a powerful one in the book, but it limits what can be seen in the film...as well as adding additional hard night shoots for the crew.
     
  18. Craig S

    Craig S Producer
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    When he attended the 2001 Oscars (in March 2002) he wore a classic black tux. I would expect he'll do the same this coming February.
     
  19. Clay-F

    Clay-F Stunt Coordinator

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    Both Frodo and Sam used it to keep Shelob at bay. Without it she would have immediately pounced. I did find the scene a little too bright. Ideally I'd like to see it about half to a quarter of the brightness. I'd like to see Frodo comment on something sticky, but the audience not being able to make it out till he uses his light....

    Yet the best part of the Shelob sequence was the creeping of Shelob. I thought that scene was near perfect. I've seen the film twice, and both times the entire audience was on edge, and let out loud gasps when Frodo gets stung...
     
  20. ChrisSI

    ChrisSI Auditioning

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    I have read a few negative criticisms of this film in this thread and I find it hard to believe that anyone would find this film disappointing. IMO, it was outstanding.

    I would advise not become so bogged down with these extreme technical critiques and just enjoy the film as an adaption of the books. My hat is off to cast and crew!!

    As an aside, I thought Al Michaels comment last night on MNF concerning critics was great. It was something like, 'critics are the people who come down from the hills after a battle is over to kill the wounded'
    Nothing personal [​IMG]
     

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