*** Official STAR WARS: EPISODE III - REVENGE OF THE SITH Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Movies' started by Robert Crawford, May 18, 2005.

  1. Paul_Stachniak

    Paul_Stachniak Screenwriter

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    Firstly who made the Clones? I know it was some mysterious Jedi who deleted the location of Kameno and all that. But who was he??? Did he would for Sideous? Why did the clones switch sides so easily? Where they programmed to obey Sideous? Was Sideous the one who order them?

    Why does Artoo fly in the last two films and never again in the sequels? His mind wasn’t wiped clean, nor was any instruction made to rebuild him.

    Why do the two suns of Tatooen only cast one shadow?

    Why does it take 20 years to build one death star, and only 3 to build the other?

    This film was a terrible end to a terrible prequel series. Forever I will see Vadar as a stupid, mindless kid who is fooled into the darkside. All the evil and hate he had in episodes 4-6 is gone. He's a pawn! A stupid mindless cyborg who had a bad dream and killed everyone cause of it.

    Chewbacca will never again be seen as a space pirate. I don't know what kid in the future will ever believe he would rip out a man's arm sockets after being Yoda’s savior not to mention a war hero against the Empire. What gives?

    What was the deal with Grevious? Honestly, who was he? How did he come to power? Why was he coughing? I’m assuming cause he was only a face and a heart in some metal body – but honestly why even bother setting up a character quirk like that and never follow it up. He was an action figure – nothing else. He served no purpose!

    Why a powerful and intelligent Jedi like Yoda gives up so easily and decides to go into exile because he got his ass kicked is beyond what I understood to be the Jedi code. You'd think rather then admit defeat he would help set up the Rebellion. Not let his emotions cloud his judgment. But no - he falls down, cries, calls himself a loser and hides in a swamp. Why anyone would look for his advice on Jedi training I'll never understand.

    Where did all the trade federation robots go in episodes 4-6? Anikin never had time to shut em down. They aren't walking around Mos Eisley in Episode 4?!

    Do I need to go on?

    What a joke these prequels where. They ruined so many of the character I grew up loving as a kid. It only left more questions to be asked. Lucas can give up this lie that he had these planned all along because I'm not buying it.

    My fault for getting my hopes up again. Also what a boring film - if I had known Ankin's rise to evil would be so long, boring and drawn out I would have stayed home. Probably would have had more respect for him in the future.
     
  2. Chris

    Chris Lead Actor

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    No problem [​IMG] You might go back and read your review of AOTC before you use "Dreck" though.

    To my review:

    I managed to see this a few weeks ago, and watched again with a larger audience.

    Sometimes, I feel as though people expect something different from Star Wars then what it is at it's heart: Star Wars has always (to me) been a sort of homage to the serial adventures of the 1950s and before (Attack of the Moon Men!, etc.) and this movie really sold that kind of feel to me all the way through; the pacing, the style, the sensibilities.

    Lucas manages to capture the rollercoaster ride of the early serials and make it come to life in a way that is unique and interesting.

    Watching it the second time tonight, with a large crowd, I found a lot of different feelings about the nature of the film; things I noticed this time but didn't the first; as well as minor touches I enjoyed.

    The presentation of Padme's death across from the "birth" of Vader was, IMHO, brilliant; it was a reminder of the stark loss of humanity in Vader, and the empire.

    This is not a film that everyone will love; but it is a film which fits within the SW universe so aptly that it's hard to dismiss. In my list of SW films, only Empire is a better film, in my opinion.. sometimes we lionize the films of the past and forget the goofy charm and serial nature of them; absolutely worth the price of admission.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] / [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Edit: hmm. Notice this got moved to discussion; eh.
     
  3. Andrew Bunk

    Andrew Bunk Screenwriter

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    Have to try and catch up on this thread after sleep and a second screening at 10:30 am. Very cool experience. It's easier to remember what I didn't like as much because there were only a few things. The good things are numerous. Only major beefs would be the almost too quick of a pace through a lot of stuff, the lack of a score in many scenes, and the cutting of the Yoda/Qui-Gon interaction. It's very obvious that there was an edit done there. Oh well. Looking forward to seeing the digital version tomorrow so I can see what if anything is different. 7 hours between the showings should hopefully not allow the first viewing to fade.

    Another very cool note. The four giant auditoriums at my AMC (Cantera 30), which are always the first to be sold out, were apparently not used for movies all day. They began seating people at 8am. Strolled over from a restaurant at about 7pm, walked in, got awesome seats, watched a bunch of SImpsons and MST3K on DVD, and the wait was over. If I had to choose my favorite scenes right now, they would be Anakin and Palpatine at the theater, the Jedi extermination sequence, and the Anakin/Padme rumination scene. In all these scenes the music was just so moving I couldn't believe it.

    Well off to be d for a few hours sleep. [​IMG]
     
  4. Paul Jenkins

    Paul Jenkins Supporting Actor

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    Just got back from the 12:20am showing. I loved the movie, and while too early to make comparisons, I will just add that I'm really looking forward to going later today to see it again!!
     
  5. Chris

    Chris Lead Actor

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    Same thought here.

    Big applause and cheers after the showing I was present for. Some of the SW geeks directly next to me were unhappy with the "comedy" elements, and I was reminded of the conversation I had before the film with them and others.. as everyone praised the films and shows they loved, everyone lapped praises on "Logan's Run" "V" "Buck Rogers" and so on, and I often think: the greatest problem any prequel like this faces is that the people in the public remember seeing the originals as kids, and it took on a mythic quality that really isn't present in any of the films, but it's part of their childhood.. and almost nothing will ever recapture that in the same way, so it's easy to feel "let down"
     
  6. David Galindo

    David Galindo Screenwriter

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    Oh Paul...Paul Paul Paul. [​IMG]

    I really loved this movie. It was tons of action, lots of lightsaber goodness, and ended at the right note. Great stuff.

    Now I need sleep. [​IMG]
     
  7. William Ward

    William Ward Supporting Actor

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    Having got back myself I have mixed emotions about the film. Overall I liked this installment and certain scenes were simply grand slams. I do have a few nits to pick though.

    First and foremost, Aayla Secura didn't even put up a fight when the clones turned on her. Ki-Adi Mundi(cone head) did what I expected every jedi to do, go down fighting and taking some clones with them. Her death was either poorly conceived, poorly acted, or both. What's with "cult hero" type minor characters in Star Wars films being given crappy death sequences(Darth Maul, Boba Fett, Aayla Secura).


    Second was Mace's death scene. Sorry, but he DID go down like a punk. He was essentially sucker-punched right out the window. As to the sentiments that Palpatine let Windu win and put him in position like that, I don't agree with. Windu took everything palpy had and gave it back with some extra mustard. Palpatine did not KNOW that Anakin would be there, so he just played the situation to that end once Anakin arrived.


    Third was the Anakin sequence right after Mace's death. His turn just didnt make sense, even though I knew it was what he was going to do. Perhaps it was the dialogue, but it seems more of the way Hayden delivered it that rubbed me wrong. Once we get past that part, the rest of Hayden's Vader stuff was very good.

    I have a minor nit-pick about the saber styles in this one(and to a certain extent AOTC). It seems the saber duels were more flash, and less substance. Lots of swooshing around and contact, but you cant see what the maneuvers are. With the classic trilogy and Episode 1, the maneuvers made sense and you could see things happening in the location of strikes to try and gain advantage.

    That's about it, and due to it being fresh(I did not know specifics of the three scenes, other than Anakin had to vow allegiance to Palpy) so my opinions on these might change upon further review.

    Something I thought about as to why Anakin loses both legs and an arm in the same swing(jarred me at first): Grab your ankles as if you were doing a flip. Then have an imaginary saber swing thru your legs and see what else gets hit on the way in. [​IMG]
     
  8. Michael Ballack

    Michael Ballack Second Unit

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    I got back. It's a cliche to say, but WOW! I'm not very good at letting my emotions out, I simply will not cry in front of other people. I had to do my damn hardest tonight. I almost lost it and bawled my eyes out. I just breathed hard and allowed the wetness of my eyes to dry. The porsnippet or however you spell it really touched me. I did not cringe once in this film because of bad dialog or acting, though I did cringe at the brutalness of anakin, palp, and the rest of the empire. For the person who didn't like the way Ayla went out, every jedi went out different. She went out completly unprepared, the jedi master with the cone head put up a good fight but was outnumbered, ploo kloon was shot from behind in his fighter, one jedi went out on the old speeder bike that we see in rotj(very pleasant suprise) and the most powerful death was believe it or not Jett Lucas's trying to fight off stormtroopers only to be executed in front of Bail Organa(this gave me a new hatred for troopers). I had no problem with the way Vader walked, he just got the friggin legs for christ sake. Don't you know people who get prostetic legs in real life have to go through rehab to learn how to use them? Vader's scream gave us a new side of Vader in which I liked. The Vader we see in anh has no hope without Padme and his babies, but when he finds out he has a son, Palpy is screwed. Natalie Portman gave easily her best job as Padme in this film, I was afraid I wouldn't feel for her when she died. All it took was this one film to bring me on the verge of bawling my eyes out. To get back to the porchsnippet that anakin gave padme in tpm, when they showed it all of tpm and aotc came flashing back in my head till we see the man that he has become. I've never felt like that before. From the begining of this film I believed that Anakin and Obi Wan were friends, brothers, and father and son. Ewan is Obi Wan and Anakin played by Hayden is Luke Skywalker's daddy. I think someone in this forum or another mentioned how you want to yell at Anakin and tell him to kill Palpy when he first learns who Palp is. I felt the same way. I also wanted to slap some sense itto Mace when he tells Anakin not to come with him to arrest Palps. Stupid, stupid, stupid. I wasn't particulary moved by seeing Mace die as I was shocked and in awe of what Anakin and Palp do to Mace. It's almost if they threw out the republic with Mace falling to his death. Very symbolic to me. I didn't particulary like or dislike Grevious. He just existed. Who else here loved that Lizard and the noise it made? It's my new favorite creature in the Star Wars galaxy. I know I'm going on and on to a point where most people will not read this post, so I'll end it now. I will not appologize when I say this is the best star wars film ever. My final rankings go as rots, esb, anh, aotc, jedi, and tpm. It's been a fun 6-7 years. I'm sad that it's all over. [​IMG]
     
  9. Inspector Hammer!

    Inspector Hammer! Executive Producer

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    Michael,
    I read your post and liked it very much, I had many of the same reflections you had during the film. [​IMG]

    Can you guys and gals believe that i've been awake for almost an entire day and night and I still have some energy to see the film again!? [​IMG]

    William,
    I don't think that Mace went down like a punk per se, he was taken by surprise by Anakin, someone he just told a moment ago had his trust. Mace simply did not see it coming, not from Anakin, the young one who was supposed to bring balance.

    One of my favorite lines of dialogue, and there were many, was when Anakin was laying at the shore of lava looking like a deep fried mozerella stick, he, looking very Linda Blair-ish BTW, looks up at Obi-Wan and yells "I HATE YOU!!!!"

    In that moment you knew that he has finally embraced his impulses. After seeing this film, I will never look at Lord Vader the same way again. The original trilogy will have so much more emotional weight now that I have witnessed the birth of it's villian and his saviour.

    Anyway, it's now 5:23 AM and for the past few hours I have lived this film, and it ain't over. In just a few short hours my ass will be back at the theater seeing it again, after that, though, you will not hear from me for at least 9 hours as I am going to crash harder then the Hindenberg! Oh the humanity!
     
  10. Michael Ballack

    Michael Ballack Second Unit

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    I've been awake for over 36 plus hours and I have tickets for 2 more shows in about 6 hours. I'm so jacked up right now that I don't know if I'm going to sleep. [​IMG]
     
  11. Sam Davatchi

    Sam Davatchi Producer

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    Yes, I’m surprised you mentioned it. When I heard it, I immediately loved his noise. It just felt so out-of-this-world and exotic, the same feeling I get from the OT. But for example I don’t like Grievous’ voice. When it’s childish and stupid and it concerns the "bad" guys, I don’t like it. That’s the major problem with the prequels. Grievous’ voice, humor with the federation fighters, Namodians.
     
  12. Ronald Epstein

    Ronald Epstein Administrator
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    I'll admit the first time I saw CLONES
    I thought it was pretty damn good....

    ...but realize, that film followed the
    biggest catastrophe of all Star Wars films,
    The Phanton Menace.

    At first CLONES looked like it would
    be the revival of the Star Wars franchise. By
    the second time I watched it, I already began
    disliking it. The dialogue was just horrible
    and the pacing didn't gelp either.

    So, yes, I was originally excited when I
    reviewed Clones but since then it
    has fallen from favor.
     
  13. Darren Haycock

    Darren Haycock Second Unit

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    Okay, just got back around 3:30. Oh man, what an experience that was. I couldn't believe how much emotion I felt in this one. Lucas can be a dark mofo when he wants to be. I was surprised by Dooku's death. I knew Anakin was gonna kill him, but not like that. But I also loved how he had regret from doing it. I thought Hayden was much more likeable in this flick as good Anakin than in Episode II. I thought he did a much better job too. Padme, still seemed a bit wooden, but what're you gonna do?

    Ewan was fantastic. When Anakin lies there on the lava beach, crippled, dying, and Obi-Wan cries out to him. Oh man, it hurt...way to go Ewan.

    I thought almost all the loose ends were tied up nicely. But I really wish that Qui-Gon was in it, not just alluded to.

    I loved when Palpatine tells the story of the Sith Lord who learned the secret to avoid death, and how his apprentice killed him in his sleep or something. I remember he kind of said it with a smile. Man, that Sidious is one old, evil dude. I always wondered what his story is. Now we know! Killed his mentor after learning everything, avoids death for who knows how long, and eventually creates his empire.

    This movie had so much darkness and dread, I seriously wanted to see the original trilogy right then and there to see Palpatine and his empire get their cumuppance. That's good film making right there. I wanted some hope, and that's what we get with the original trilogy.

    I was ecstatic to see that Lucas included the whatchamajiggie that Anakin made for Padme in Episode I.

    Everyone erupted when Yoda decapitated those clonetroopers. I think the big problem with the jedi dying is that it was just so unexpected for them, and they had their guard down. Here were soldiers they had fought beside for so long, and in an instant they're shot in the back or what not.

    For those curious about Grevious coughing all the time. Watch the Clone Wars Volume I and II. Volume II leads right into Episode III, showing Grevious kidnap the chancellor. Right before he escapes, Windu crushes a part of his chest with the force.

    I think I've said enough for the moment. I should try and get some sleep. What a great night, I can't wait to see how this affects the viewing of the OT and the prequels.
     
  14. Chris Lynch

    Chris Lynch Stunt Coordinator

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    I'm so glad Lucas didn't screw this up.

    Let me qualify that statement by saying that I enjoyed "The Phantom Menace," and moreso "Attack of the Clones," but neither measured up to the Original Trilogy. I think this one does. I need to see it again to decide for myself if I like it better than "Return of the Jedi," so we'll see.

    I didn't see the Millenium Falcon, but my buddy says he did, in the scene cited above by Jassen.

    Also, a question. A friend says he heard that General Grievous is a twisted, spare parts reincarnation of Darth Maul. Anyone else hear or sense this, or is this just fanboy rumor mill BS? The close up on his eye somewhat supported this theory. I need to see it again.

    Loved the "Opera" scene. I think it might be the prettiest Star Wars scene yet, IMO. And Ian McD is note perfect in this scene.

    I thought the trashing of the Senate Chamber during the Yoda/Palpatine scene was effectively symbolic, the end of Democracy, etc.

    More later.

    Chris
     
  15. Scott Weinberg

    Scott Weinberg Lead Actor

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    Agree or disagree:

    During Palpatine's rather grim anecdote about Darth Plagius, the mention of "creating...life" is a clear (yet relatively subtle) implication that, yes, he "created" Anakin via the powers of the Dark Side.

    Which would mean, of course, that Palpatine is Anakin's father. [​IMG]
     
  16. Inspector Hammer!

    Inspector Hammer! Executive Producer

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    On second thought, I may wait until tonight to see it again as I can feel myself winding down and starting to drag. I was fine until that dammned sun came up! [​IMG]

    I wonder if late night partiers on Tatooine feel twice as beat in the morning because they have two suns instead of one? [​IMG]

    It's a good thing I have off of work today, most of it will be spent staring at the back of my eye lids.

    Good night, or good morning, whatever. [​IMG]
     
  17. Sam Davatchi

    Sam Davatchi Producer

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    No he is not Maul. He is another alien.
     
  18. Kirk Tsai

    Kirk Tsai Screenwriter

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    Scott, just had that discussion with another member. My feeling is no, because a lot of that conversation could just be Palpy's way of luring Anakin to his side, so we're not even sure if he's telling the truth. Probably the part where the apprentice killing the master is the only part we can rely on.
     
  19. Adam_ME

    Adam_ME Supporting Actor

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    I was underwhelmed to say the least by ROTS(although not as much as Paul apparently[​IMG]). Anakin's turn was not handled well at all. I bought him wanting to do whatever it took to save Padme. But to decide in the blink of an eye to betray the Jedi and slaughter little kids(how exactly were they a threat to overthrow Palpatine?) without ever once seeming to show remorse is a little hard to swallow.

    It's a shame too cuz I loved the first 40 minutes or so of this film. Where it went to hell was that Mace/Palpatine/Anakin scene. After that, the movie lost me. And did we really need to keep cutting away to the Wookiees and General Grievous(there was a waste of screentime if I ever saw one)? What was the point of those scenes?

    Also, the lightsaber duels were mediocre in this movie. It was just people(or in some cases, CG characters) twirling sticks around. Nothing on par with Vader vs. Luke in Empire and Jedi or the 3-way duel in TPM.

    Where Lucas really screwed up was in saving so much story for this one film. Anakin's turn should've started sooner. By saving that entire arc for essentially one scene, he's ruined the prequel trilogy. It makes very little sense and doesn't do much to enhance the original three films. If anything, it weakens Vader as a character.
     
  20. Chris Lynch

    Chris Lynch Stunt Coordinator

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    Agree.

    One of the cool surprises in the film for me.

    Chris
     

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