Spider-Man 2 (2004) (1 Viewer)

[Matt Stone]

To address your problem with the poor villain, Quentin...I think the focus of the struggle was supposed to be internal to Peter Parker/Spider-man. Call it a cop-out if you must, but I felt that the main antagonist (or personification of one) was Peter's indecision to be or not be Spider-man. It cost lives, and when it started affecting his powers it took away his ability to stop Ock.

We disagree, but this is just my take.

 

[Holadem]

Although I gave the movie a 3.5/4, I mostly agree with you Quentin. With the sequel, it was time to up the ante on the SCALE of the THREAT (vilain) and the ACTION.

Matt: Which is fine. Expectations got in the way I guess, especially since the trailers were so... operatic and epic in themselves. The story ended up being way more personal than I would have liked.

--
H

 

[Brian_H]

Quentin, I see what you're saying and agree with some of your points, but I don't think that setting up a villain that has some grand, master plan is the ONLY way to tell an action story, especially not one that's been set up all along to be a part of a franchise.

I'd also argue that Ock does have a master plan, it's just not particularly evil. I also think that the types of plans that villains generally have in superhero movies are too grand for a Spidey story, as he's always been written. Heck, I think the fact that Ock's fusion thing could've destroyed part of NY was pushing it as far as scope goes.

Saving the world from Kryptonian criminals or stopping an evil general from annihilating all the mutants on the planet just doesn't belong in a Spidey story.

I thought they did a great job of giving the villain something to work towards and weaving all the supporting characters into the mix. Ock doesn't want to destroy New York. He just wants to finish his life's work, and be left the hell alone. He's the villain because of the lengths he's willing to go to to accomplish this, not because of what he's doing.

I also liked the fact that Pete has an understanding of what Ock's doing (once he learns of the plan) and realizes that if he doesn't do something, no one will. I love X2, and Superman 2, and a bunch of other superhero flicks, but I thought it was a nice change from a story where the villain is doing something really bad, and the hero has to stop him just because he's the hero. I mean, it's a no brainer for Supes to not allow a nuclear warhead to detonate, or to try to stop General Zod and his crew from trashing the Earth. Although what Ock was doing would've caused a lot of damage, he genuinely thought he was doing the right thing.

I like the usual "Mwaahaaahaaahaa. Kneel before Zod" stories as much as the next guy. This was something different, but I don't think that's necessarily bad.

 

[Patrick Sun]

I purposefully ratcheted down any of my expectations for the film, thus, I think I was rewarded for it in my first viewing of the film.

Just because a film doesn't follow YOUR own idea of how a super-hero film should be plotted, it doesn't mean it deserves less praise for going to the core of "what is the price the hero has to pay to fight the good fight at the expense of his own happiness because with great power comes great responsibility."

I think many less-than-satisfied viewers of this film forget that it's been 2 years of the daily grind of living 2 lives for Peter Parker, and his personal life has been placed on the backburner to the point that, internally, he's unable to fire on all cylinders even as Spider-Man, and that condition threatens to get him killed if he can't rely on his powers at crucial times.

This film deals with the risk/reward of being a super-hero, and in the beginning, it's pretty bleak, but given the train scene, where Spidey comes to find out that regular people support what he does and are willing to help him out when he needs some help, his view of his personal self-sacrifice changes for the better. It gives Peter the support and encouragement that he hadn't had in the past 2 years as he is driven to heed the call for help, whether that be in the form of a siren, or a scream.

There are many times in life where conflict doesn't have to rely on diametrically opposite goals, but at cross-purposes, and that's how this film's plot played out. Doc Ock was driven to crime to secure financial resources to complete his project. It's the crimes that catches Spider-Man's attention, not specifically Doc Ock's project. There's nothing wrong with that. And then for Harry to use Doc Ock to procure Spider-Man for his own vengeful purposes in exchange for what Doc Ock wants, that's perfectly acceptable to move the plot along.

 

[JonZ]

I was typing a response but Brian said it better than I could

I like the way Doc Ock was handled,unlike some of the villians in the Batfilms who hate and have to destroy Batman for no reason other than hes a costumed "goodguy". I remember my friend saying that to me walking out of the theater after Batman Returns - "What the hell were they all fighting about?"

 

[Daniel J.S.]

Hmmm, it seems no one wants to discuss my interpretation of the film. I'm absolutely crushed. My suspicions were correct: no one wants to hear what I have to say.

 

[MichaelD]

I feel the same way you do Quentin. I did like the second one way better than the first, but too me much of it seemed rehashed.

Spidey trying out his powers, saw it in the first one, don't need to see him trying to jump over a building or climb up a wall again.

Running into a burning building to save someone. Saw it.

Aunt May gets blown up/captured by baddie. Saw it.

Mary Jane gets captured by baddie. Saw it.

Those are just a few of the things. Another thing is Harry's character. He went from being an okay high school grad 2.5 years ago, to being the head of special projects. I would find it hard to believe for him to be able to grab that much power at the young age of 21. Also, he is so one dimensional. Maybe it was James Franco's acting but the conflict between him and Peter just didn't seem convincing.

Also, I think they delved into too many plot lines. I think Kirsten Dunst is the anchor of the movies. She adds the weight to it and the conflict for Spiderman. Now it's gone. I don't want to see her in danger every movie; that gets old fast. Will remind me of the last two seasons of Buffy with Dawn. But now that they are together, her role is done. What purpose does she have in future movies. Is she going to stay at home and worry about Spiderman all day? Is she going to be placed in danger yet again? It just seems like there is nothing left for her character. I never read the comic books but I thought I read somewhere that she marries Jameson in them and then there is conflict when he becomes Man Wolf (?) Don't know if that is right or not but it would have included Mary Jane in future storylines. Now I think they've written her as a secondary character. Her arc seems to be complete.

Anyway, just rambling. Again, I like this one better than the first, but I think they tried to move the story too far too fast, if they are setting this up to be a long running franchise.

 

[Holadem]

A bit too feudian methink
I meant so ask, what are the logistics of his plan? How did he use (ot plan to use) the loot?!

--
H

 

[Joe Blech]

I really saw Raimi's touch in the operating room scene. I liked how there was no music and loved the shots. I thought I was watching Army of Darkness.

 

[Patrick Sun]

Doc Ock treated the loot as a means to an end, the end being getting the necessary pieces to complete his work on the fusion project.

 

[Scott Weinberg]

All of which he apparently purchased from the Acme Corporation.

 

[Holadem]

I just wonder how an eight-limbed scientist (not exactly discreet) who just became a criminal (so it's not like he has a network of "suppliers" or an evil organization) was able to buy the material and tools he needed, is all.

If you can strong arm yourself to a bank's safe, might as well skip the money and go beat the crap out of whoever has whatever it is you want to buy, you know?...

Perhaps he ordered the stuff online...

--
H - not a big deal.

 

[MichaelD]

And did the Federal Express guy just drop of fthe boxes for him in the middle of the harbor, in an abandoned building, saw a guy with four tentacles, and said sign here?

 

[Larry Sutliff]

Same here, but I've grown to appreciate the good things in Spidey 1 a bit more. Really, the only problems I have with it are the Goblin mask,and some of the situations remind me of the Schumacher Batman films(for instance, the "Choose!" scene, and even some of the Oscorp lab stuff reminds me of BATMAN FOREVER for some reason). But the origin, the relationship between Peter and his aunt and uncle, J.J.J., Defoe whenever he isn't wearing the mask...all great stuff.

 

[DanaA]

Myself, I wasn't the biggest fan of the first movie, but absolutely loved this one. So, I just recommend it.

 

[Quentin]

There's just not much more to add to your analysis, Daniel. I agree - the first movie dealt with puberty/coming of age on a symbolic and thematic level. This film deals with early adulthood and sexual function on a symbolic and thematic level.

I doubt anyone would disagree...and, you pretty much covered it.

 

[Patrick Sun]

Any film can be logistically picked apart (but what's the point of that exercise?), but none of the possible Doc Ock procurement issues hindered my enjoyment of his presence in the film.

 

[Parris]

Actually Peter had already made the decision to be Spiderman before MJ was captured. Remember he tried to go back on everything he told her earlier before Doc Ock interrupted. The problem was that even though Pete wanted to be Spiderman again the mental block had become too great for him to restore his powers. It just so happened that putting MJ in harms way is the thing that triggered his powers to return.

 

[Quentin]

I think you may be right. And, I would point to two words in your summary: "main" and "indecision". If your main conflict in a film - particularly a genre film - is "indecision", you have a BIG problem.

 

[MichaelD]

Very true Patrick. It's just one of those things that sticks out with me. Another one, that I thought was amusing is what does Spidey do with his other clothes when he changes into his outfit. I could picture him changing, then neatly folding and stacking his clothes behind a dumpster to retrieve them later since he is so poor and can't afford new threads.