Spider-Man 2 (2004) (1 Viewer)

[Angel Pagan]

Along with the "Go get em, tiger" line, this was one of my favorite scenes in the movie. I vaguely remember MJ always worrying about Peter (after they married, that is) whenever he'd put on the costume to battle the villians. They may even marry in part 3 and this would definately put a strain on their relationship.

 

[Brian_H]

I noticed this too, as well as the fact that Harry was wearing a green bow-tie at the church for MJ's wedding. That's gotten me to thinking. There were an awful lot of cop cars, fire engines, a couple helicoptors, all heading towards where Spidey was off to at the end of the film.

I'd love it, LOVE IT, if they start the 3rd movie right where the 2nd left off, showing the same scene, only from MJ's POV, and we get to see what she's reacting to... Harry, in new and improved Goblin garb, streaking across the sky.

 

[JohnS]

someone mentioned that groundwork has been laid for man-wolf and Lizard.

I know who becomes Man-wolf.
But who becomes Lizard????

 

[Adam.Heckman]

http://www.samruby.com/AmazingSpider...derman_006.htm

Doctor Curt Connors, apparently.

BTW, I'm glad other people appreciated the final shot of the movie as well. It really lays the ground work for later conflict.

 

[Sean Moon]

I loved that final shot of MJ looking worried. As for Harry being the Goblin in part 3, my friends think they shouldnt rehash a villian already, or if they do he should team up with someone. I think I am the only person around here that thinks that Harry should be the lone villian in part 3.

And now that they have all the criticisms of Goblin in Spider Man one out of the way, who thinks that the next costume will be MUCH improved? Personally, I cant wait to see what they do with it.

Of all the scenes in the movie that got to me though, I think the scene after he stops the train got me the most emotionally. How the music was, and the image of the passengers gently holding his body over their heads, almost worshiping him. "He's just a kid! No older than my son" Just an amazing and powerful scene to me, the love that was shown to the character and showed for me, for the first time, what it is like to sacrifice yourself to be a hero. That was the first time in a super hero movie I felt pity and sorrow for the hero after a selfless act. Bravo Raimi!

There is just too much cool stuff in this movie, but the best thing to me was Octavius. The part that got me just so jazzed may sound silly to some, but I found it awesome, was when he was sitting and working, and the arms put the cigar in his mouth and lit it. Just a perfect image straight from the comics. And when the arms grabbed Harry's drink and he took a sip from it. And speaking of that scene, I also thought of the T REX from Jurassic Park. I almost expected Harry to look at his glass and to see a ripple in his drink.

 

[Tony-B]

Time for box office information!!

Spider-Man 2 has shattered the record for the top opening Wednesday! The previous record of $34,450,834, held by Lord of the Rings: Return of the King, was shattered by Spider-Man 2's gross of $40,500,000. So far, I am very close on my predictions.

 

[Jacinto]

I saw this with my wife last night and we both loved it. I hope that Harry in the green tie at the wedding is a red-herring. Remember, Harry didn't know until the end of this movie that his dad was the Green Goblin, so his discovery of his Norman's stash wouldn't necessarily have been "hey, now I'll become the Green Goblin, too!" He first has to come to terms with the fact that his dad died not because Spider-man murdered him, but because he was a truly evil man. Anyway, I guess we'll see how they play all of this out in part 3.

Is this movie appropriate for 8-10 year olds? Giving a blanket "yes" to people is completely irresponsible. You parents out there should know your kids well enough to know what things bother them. In my opinion, this film deserves the PG-13 rating for one reason: Doc Oc in the operating room. That scene is truly terrifying and I heard a few kids crying out during it at the showing we went to. I'm actually glad my wife and I went without our 13 year old boy, because he is extremely sensitive to terror, and that scene produces plenty of it. So, if you know your kids can handle that sort of thing (I liken that scene to several in Jurassic Park, with intense, fast visuals, blood-curdling screams, and loud and intense sound effects) then by all means, take them, but know that that's what they're in for.

 

[Adam.Heckman]

I believe that Shrek2 pulled in 44.x million dollars. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

edit:
Doh... shrek didn't start on a wednesday...
If it did take in 40+ mil then it'll be in the top five single day tallys along with the original.

 

[Sean Moon]

Shrek pulled in 44 some odd million one day, but it was on a Saturday, three days after opening. Spider Man one has the record for highest first weekend, biggest opening day, while Spider Man 2 has the record now for largest Wednesday opening.

Of course this year has shown how unpredictable the box office can be. Shrek 2 made like 11 million its first day, then about the same the next, then all of a sudden Friday it made about 40, then Sat 44! It was insane how huge that picture spiked! Personally, I want Spidey 2 to show Shrek where it is at this weekend. I think that Thurs there will be a dip in the box office, but Friday and Sat should be massive. At least I hope.

 

[Brian_H]

Nope, Spidey 2 just topped the previous opening day record (opening day, not just Wednesday) which was held by Spider-Man.

Spider-Man made $39.4 million on its opening Friday. Spider-Man 2 made $40.5 million yesterday.

 

[Adam.Heckman]

Full listing at: http://www.boxofficeprophets.com/dailyrecords/

Shrek 2 5/22/04 Sat. 44.80
Spider-Man 5/04/02 Sat. 43.62
The Matrix Reloaded 5/15/03 Thur. 42.51
Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban 6/04/04 Fri. 41.22
Spider-Man 5/03/02 Fri. 39.41
Shrek 2 5/23/04 Sun. 34.90
The Matrix Reloaded 5/17/03 Sat. 34.39
Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets 11/16/02 Sat. 34.21
The Lord of the Rings: Return of the King 12/17/03 Wed. 34.12

 

[Chuck Anstey]

I haven't read the comics so I am not sure how they compare but I cannot stand MJ in the movies. In the first she was shallow and in this 2nd movie she was aloof to Peter and down right crappy to John Jameson. For her to meet Peter when she was going to marry John in a few days made her seem really selfish and fickle to me. I felt much more sympathy for the landlord's daughter as she seemed to genuinely care for Peter. I was hoping they would end up together without her knowing his identity and MJ would marry John so she could be out of the picture. With what has been shown on the screen between the two of them, I simply cannot believe Peter could still really want her and for her to even have any real feelings for him. After Peter turned her down at the end of the 1st movie her character, as shown on the screen, would have moved on and not given Peter a second thought.

Chuck

 

[JonZ]

"my friends think they shouldnt rehash a villian already.."

Which is why I think they should make Harry Hobgoblin. Alter the GG costume color with the hood and cloak, the glider,etc.Id also like to see the bag of tricks strapped around his shoulder.

Its also why I dont think Harry will be a lone villian.One scenario Id like to see is if Harry responding to a Spiderman sighting showed up at a time when Spidey was taking on Lizard and Harry ends up in a position of having to defend himself against Lizard as well(I dont think Lizard would be too picky about who hes lashing out against)

A 3 way brawl

 

[Adam.Heckman]

CraigL,

"It seemed like this was a movie more about coping with being a super hero than actually fighting bad guys."

You nailed it. But, that's why most of us feel refreshed by it. Now, don't get me wrong, I also love Predator and Die Hard, but Spiderman2 takes those a notch up, action, acting and depth.

To each their own.

 

[Adam.Heckman]

I would enjoy Spidey taking on a totally new evil in 3, and have the sub-plot of Harry trying to deal with the conflict he'll feel. The conflict of loyalty to his father and to his best friend. Maybe with the new perspective of his fater being the GG he'll have some more indecision about his hatred for spidey/parker.
Also, the sub-plot of MJ trying to deal with the 'new love' and the trials of being in love with spidey who is always putting himself in harms way.

Perhaps at the end we see Harry donning the GG suit... after professing his loyalty to Peter...

 

[Brian_H]

Yes, a 3 way brawl would be awesome. It would also add to the fight with Spidey not wanting to really hurt either of them, but them both wanting to kill him. I mean, underneath it all, Dr. Connors is a good man (I actually wish they went a little deeper into his character, maybe cut the cake and milk scene to show Pete meeting Connors' family) and I'm sure Pete won't want to bust Harry up too bad.

I don't have a huge problem with Harry being Hobgoblin instead of GG2, but I'd prefer they didn't, and there are a lot of fans out there that would absolutely hate it. I mean, it's just a name, but if you make Harry the Hobgoblin, you can't bring the real Hobgoblin in in the future. I'd like to see Harry stick around for a couple films as GG2, and have them bring in Hobgoblin to have those two hate each other, but team up for the greater good (killing Spidey). Although, that probably would be Goblin overload.

You can still drastically alter GG2's costume without changing his name. Toss some purple in there, change the mask, give him his bag o' tricks, and the electric blasts from his fingertips.

 

[Scott Weinberg]

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE




SPIDER-MAN® 2 MAKES BOX OFFICE
HISTORY WITH LARGEST OPENING DAY EVER

With an estimated $40.5 million on its first day
Spider-Man® 2 rewrites the record books


Culver City, CA July 1, 2004 – Sony Pictures Entertainment's Spider-Man® 2 established a new industry record for opening day box office receipts with an estimated $40.5 million in ticket sales, it was announced today by Jeff Blake, Vice-Chairman of Sony Pictures Entertainment and President of Worldwide Marketing and Distribution for the Columbia TriStar Motion Picture Group. Spider-Man 2 debuted yesterday in 4,152 theaters.

"We are off to a phenomenal start on what looks to be a magical six days for Spider-Man 2," said Jeff Blake, Vice Chairman of Sony Pictures Entertainment, and President of Worldwide Marketing and Distribution. "Spider-Man 2 may be the best reviewed film of the year, and now it's clearly being loved by audiences as well. Sam Raimi and the producers and cast have delivered a great film."

The $40.5 million figure shatters the existing opening day record of $39.4 million set by the original Spider-Man, which opened in May, 2002. The film also set a new record for openings on a Wednesday.

In Spider-Man® 2, two years have passed since Peter Parker (Tobey Maguire) walked away from his longtime love Mary Jane Watson (Kirsten Dunst) and decided to take the road to responsibility as Spider-Man. Peter must face new challenges as he struggles to cope with "the gift and the curse" of his powers while balancing his dual identities as the elusive superhero Spider-Man and life as a college student. The relationships Peter holds most dear are now in danger of unraveling as he clashes with the powerful, multi-tentacled villain "Doc Ock" (Alfred Molina).

Spider-Man® 2 reunites the cast and filmmakers from the first adventure, including Tobey Maguire, Kirsten Dunst, James Franco, Rosemary Harris and J.K. Simmons, under the leadership of director Sam Raimi and producers Laura Ziskin and Marvel's Avi Arad. Joining the ensemble cast are Alfred Molina as Dr. Otto Octavius ("Doc Ock"), Daniel Gillies as John Jameson, Vanessa Ferlito as Louise, Dylan Baker as Dr. Curt Connors and Donna Murphy as Rosalie Octavius.

Columbia Pictures Presents A Marvel Enterprises/Laura Ziskin Production Spider-Man® 2 starring Tobey Maguire, Kirsten Dunst, James Franco, Alfred Molina, Rosemary Harris, Donna Murphy and J.K. Simmons. The film is directed by Sam Raimi (Spider-Man, The Evil Dead). The screenplay is by two-time Oscar® winner Alvin Sargent (Ordinary People, Unfaithful) based on the Marvel Comic Book by Stan Lee and Steve Ditko. The screen story is by Alfred Gough & Miles Millar and Pulitzer-Prize winning author Michael Chabon. The producers are Laura Ziskin (Spider-Man, Pretty Woman) and Avi Arad (X-Men, Daredevil).

 

[Quentin]

Do I dare bash this film 5 pages into this love fest? Oh, what the heck...

First of all, bash is too rough. I like the film. I really do like it. But, I think I could/should have LOVED it, and I have a lot of ideas on what went wrong…

First, the things that REALLY worked for me:

1)Tobey Maguire is awesome. He really plays Parker well. Dunst is great (though sorely lacking in the film), and the chemistry between them is palpable. They are the core of the films, and aren’t given enough attention.

2)Raimi is a stud. His action scenes are exceptionally well storyboarded and choreographed. His touches of humor are perfect and entertaining. His taste for horror (the “surgery” scene may be my favorite – it SO smacks of Evil Dead) works well.

3)The CGI is good.

4) Molina is quite good.

5)The last 30 minutes (with the exception of too many endings – particularly the Goblin set up) ROCK. Particularly the final scene with M.J. and the train sequence. Great stuff.

So, why don’t I like the movie that much? First of all, I DO like it. I like it better than the original (I’m not a big fan of the original – I like the “origin” opening a LOT, but the Goblin stuff fails for me). But, I don’t like it nearly as much as X2, or even Superman 2 (this film has a lot in common with Supes 2, and I’ll get to that), and I don’t think it nearly deserves the across-the-board raves it is getting.

The major problems with the film:

1)THE VILLAIN’S PLAN SUCKS!! – This is #1 on my list. It is my major problem with the first film – the Goblin’s ‘plan’ being, “Join me Spider-man!” That’s no plan. Now, “I’m going to re-do my experiment,” is technically a plan. But, for dramatic purposes, it is crap. Here is a BASIC rule for quality genre filmmaking: give your protagonist a goal. Give your antagonist a plan (goal). Have them diametrically opposed.

And, while you’re at it…do it QUICKLY. This should be the core conflict of your film, so set it up early and build on it. Don’t take 30 minutes (or longer) to INTRODUCE the villain, and even longer to put him in opposition to your hero.

2)Poor structure and pacing KILL the first 90 minutes of this film. This problem has a lot to do with the villain plan problem. The film ambles along FOREVER, with nothing happening. Peter whines, Doc Ock sits around in his lab, more whining, some jokes…blah, blah, blah. Luckily, there are a LOT of jokes. Something finally starts happening when Harry tells Ock to get Spidey. And, the movie FINALLY kicks into gear when Ock takes Mary Jane at the café.

The pacing is also problematic because it constantly switches between the dark, ominous Ock scenes (heavy music, dark shadows…even though nothing is happening…because he doesn’t have a plan!), and the whining Peter scenes where he is conflicted.
Let’s look at structural examples from good films –

In “Die Hard”, the first FIVE minutes introduce us to John McClane and Holly Generro. He is the hero, his problem is that his marriage is failing (to Holly), his goal is that he wants her back! Clear, concise. The next five minutes introduce us to Hans Gruber – he is CLEARLY the villain. His goal/plan is to take over the building where Holly/John are located (we don’t yet know the purpose/complexity). His goal is diametrically opposed to John achieving his goal!!

In the next 10 minutes, Hans takes over, John and Holly are split. John’s goal now becomes to get BACK to Holly and save her. It is an external goal that is directly related (symbolic of) his internal goal of repairing their marriage.

The rest of the film builds on this basic conflict. Every action Hans makes REQUIRES a reaction from John. This is the hero/villain relationship, and it cannot exist unless your villain has a PLAN (see problem #1).

Let’s take a look at another example…from a movie Spidey 2 OBVIOUSLY cribs from: Superman 2:

Supes 2 starts with an action sequence. A great teaser, ala Bond movies…but, it also sets up important story pieces – Supes saves Lois and sets up that she loves Supes, but that Clark loves her. The romantic triangle! Clark’s goal is PRO-ACTIVE and NOBLE (see problem #3). He has to find a way to win Lois’ heart, even though she loves his alter ego. The opening also sets up the villain, because when Supes detonates the atomic bomb in space, the villains are freed from their prison. Their goal? Not YET clear, but we know they HATE Superman, and have his powers. We soon learn (within 15 minutes) that their goal is world domination AND revenge upon Jor El/Kal El.

Supes 2 follows a slightly different structure than “Die Hard” – in that it ALLOWS Supes to achieve his inner goal (winning Lois) and then poses that as diametrically opposite from the villain goal. If he has Lois (and no powers), the world falls to the villains. It sets up the ultimate sacrifice – but, he HAS the goal in hand, so we actually see/feel his loss when he makes the choice. It creates conflict within the audience.

Spidey 2 starts well – funny action scene as Spidey stops some baddies AND delivers his pizza…AND STILL GETS FIRED!! Hilarious and great setup – his inner conflict is his alter ego interferes with his life (unfortunately, this point is redundantly pounded into our head with multiple scenes throughout the first hour – why??). BUT, the buck stops there…we do not even HAVE a villain for another 20+ minutes, and he is not put in the immediate path of our hero until much later than that (because he doesn’t have a plan…have I underlined the importance of this?).

The result is 90 minutes of boring redundancy broken up by jokes and a couple good scenes.

3)Peter Parker is too passive and not noble!! He spends the first 90 minutes of the film conflicted, unable to make a strong decision, and whining. When he finally makes a decision, it is out of weakness. It’s not Clark Kent putting away the cape for love. It’s a whiny guy putting away the mask because he wants to live his life. Should be similar – both are selfish moves. But, Supes frames it so that we WANT Clark to be with Lois. He’s making a noble sacrifice for love…and we later learn he CAN’T do that…he must be Superman. Peter Parker constantly whines, we see his life is shit (over and over again), and he longs for M.J., but won’t put her in harm’s way. When he makes his decision, it is obviously selfish – he even turns his back on muggings. And, when he comes back it is not for a noble purpose – it’s to save M.J.! It’s problematic.

4)Too many subplot threads. This movie feels like one big setup for multiple sequels. Hey, there’s the Lizard! Hey, there’s Betty Brant! The coda of Harry finding the Goblin stuff was too much! Can’t they leave any stone unturned?

5)Too redundant. I’ve covered this…

6)The dialogue is HORRIBLY on the nose. Every time you turn around, someone is spilling their guts…and telling us EXACTLY how they feel. No subtlety, no word games, no unspoken thoughts/feelings.

That is all for now. It’s a lot, I know. But, this film has so many flaws, I can hardly believe people are calling it the “best comic book movie” or the “best sequel”. Superman 2 is better (despite severe cheesiness), Batman 2 is better (despite too many characters), X2 is better.

Speaking of X2, I think Spidey 2 is a mirror-image. X2 starts with a phenomenal bang. It sets up everything I mentioned above. The villain has a plan, it lies directly opposed to the heroes, the opening 20-30 minutes are FANTASTIC. And, then, it putters out…never truly regaining the bang of the opening. Mostly because it gets a little too plot-thick and has way too many sub-plots and sequel setup stuff going on. The end never repeats the bang of the opening (though, it is a more than passable end). Still, I like X2 TONS more than Spidey 2.

 

[Quentin]

I apologize for the long-ass post. I doubt anyone will actually read the whole thing!

After re-reading my post...I sound quite harsh. I don't mean to be. I like the film. The funny stuff IS funny. Raimi IS at the top of his game. And, the final 30 minutes are worth the price of admission...

But, all the flaws I listed DO exist. And, they drag a "10" all the way down to a "7".

 

[Matt Stone]

Not the only one. I'm enthusiastically gearing up for some Green Goblin 2 action.

I wouldn't mind seeing other villains appear (Lizard, etc), but I definitely want Harry's Green Goblin as the primary villain.

BTW, I'm sure Harry wearing a green tie wasn't exactly revealing that he decided to be the Green Goblin. It was more of a visual reminder of his situation.