Mulholland Drive (2001) (1 Viewer)

[Dome Vongvises]

I'm reviving this thread because I found Jack's thread come up. I just got done watching this movie, and I'd like to read some people's thoughts on it.

 

[rich_d]

So, based on a post here of a supposed account from Forster's booze night and subsequent conversation with an unnamed producer (who might not even know Lynch's account) - that is your support for your theory? If I'm ever on trial for murder .. would you be on my jury?

My understanding is that the theory that dreams occur in a short span of time (rapid eye movement) is no longer considered valid. Even then, there is a difference between a dream and a 2+ hour movie.

Has someone has already mentioned, if it is all a dream then where does the POV shot from her head hitting the pillow come from. By the way, the head hitting the pillow shot in the opening is a face down (into the pillow) shot while the suicide scene in the end is a face-up and then to the side shot.

 

[rich_d]

Agreed, and well written.

Diane "wakes up" to two realities within her dream - about herself and about Rita/Camilla. First, Rita.

Diane wants to believe that Rita is someone struggling with her identity - i.e. what she wants, who she is (lesbian?).
The blonde Rita allows the dream to move towards where Diane wants it go - to be more like her and for the two of them to be together intimately. Club Silencio is the "awakening" to the lie. People and words are not as they always appear. This realization hits Betty hard as she shakes in her seat and is continued in remorse through the crying scene. The coming to light is represented by the blue cube which appears in her bag. After that scene, Betty no longer believes in Rita's innocence and departs from her/that dream.

The second reality is around herself/Diane/Betty. The multi-talented, beauty who is going to light the town on fire. First, we see the conspiracies that keep her from being successful. She is also well supported from loved ones Aunt Ruth and from strangers wishing her well (couple at the airport, Coco).

The reality is that Diane is no Betty (pun intended).

She is just another face in Hollywood scraping by with little support or loved ones helping her on. Camilla may own her success to more than her acting talent but, so be it - that doesn't hurt Diane's chances.

In the dream, she comes to a realization about herself as to her talent, outlook, as well as her murderous intent (the truth of this represented by the blue key). This (being shown the light) comes to her, symbolically as well - by the second appearance of the blue cube. Now, her madness takes over from the dream/reality. The same couple that supported her (loving manner) is now gone, replaced with them hating her. She kills herself and her last vision is that of her ultimate nightmare - being a horrid, homeless woman - all alone in the world.

Well, if Ken was late to the party in April, I guess I really missed the boat. Thanks Dome for bumping the thread!

So, what do you think?

 

[Seth Paxton]

Dang, you're right. I never realized a film cannot mix POV and omniscient shots.

I mean what the hell was Billy Wilder thinking in Sunset Blvd. What a screw up to have a dead guy lying in the pool narrating the film for us AFTER he's dead. Don't even get me started on Fight Club, or Zentropa (Trier).

But stepping beyond Diane's life and dream to show the last physical actions involving her falling/dying body as reality hits, THAT'S something that makes no sense??

 

[Damin J Toell]

If science can debunk the plot of a film and make it invalid, then every sci-fi film ever made sure has a lot of explaining to do.

DJ

 

[Jim_F]

I loved this film. I'm inclined to think of the whole thing as taking place in a dream. The meeting with the hitman (the "mission accomplished" signal seems oddly contrived and symbolic-like a dream) and the moments preceeding the final gunshot (hence, IMO, the gunshot itself) included.

None of which detracts one iota from my immense enjoyment of this work.

 

[Steve_E]

When they went to the theater house and the guy was basically saying "it s all an illusion....all an illusion" all of a sudden the woman with the blonde hair starts to shake violently....why?

 

[Mike Broadman]

Because she's being violently forced out of the fantasy. It's like someone slapping in you in the face or spilling cold water on you when you're not prepared for it.

 

[Joseph Young]

Seth:


I also thought I would add 2 things:

1) It's great that people are putting a lot of thought into this film and have allowed it to put them through mental calesthentics. This is something that I'm sure Lynch is hoping people will walk away doing, although I suspect his motives are to touch the subconscious and the emotion. His exchange with Roger Ebert at the academy awards, in respect specifically to Mulholland Drive, revealed as much.

2) I may be wrong, but I sense a need here to create some kind of logical, scientifically accurate mathematical equation out of the film's events. I may be dead wrong, but I'm getting a sense that people want to get some final clarification about Lynch's intent, Forster's interpretation, etc. Maybe unearthing all the theories extrapolated from dream research will solve the puzzle, maybe doing a chronological frame-by-frame will yield the answers you seek. Or maybe... just maybe, the film is meant to linger on in our imaginings, never being so dissected as to lose its potency. Perhaps we are not meant to put this animal to rest, but instead watch it pace slowly, hungrily, just on the edge of our perhipheral vision, affecting each of us, respectively, with fear, fascination, excitement, apathy, and other states that inspire us to our own creative ends.

By all means seek out the final clarification... but by no means expect to find it.

~j

 

[Seth Paxton]

Yes, for me the greatest enjoyment comes not from achieving an understanding (though that might seem otherwise here in this thread), but rather I enjoy it because it is simply so WATCHABLE.

It pulls you in with these beautiful shots and rhythmic scenes that are not so much catchy as they are gripping in some manner.

I finally saw 8 1/2 tonight for the first time. I was amazed at the similarity in that one regard, the watchablity despite the disjoint narrative. Any single scene being able to work so strongly while isolated from the rest of the narrative.


For both, there are themes and even a narrative, but as much of it is felt as is explicitly told. Neither commit to abstract at any point, but I think we could say that both narratives have been abstracted, deformed, from the normal patterns.

 

[Will_B]

Ok, I am seven months later than the last poster, but I want to try my hand at what happened in this film. Then I'll read back and see what others said. And then I'll watch the film again.

I am starting by saying that this film did not involve a dream.

Diane, jilted lover of the brunette Camille, becomes so angered at the party which Camille has driven her to, that she draws the attention of some evil forces - evil forces that have the ability to pull strings and reshape reality.
So step one: the evil forces notice her rage at the party.

Next, she hires someone who she thinks is a scruffy hitman. He isn't - he works for the evil forces, though you wouldn't know it to look at him. Think of him as a little devil. The diner customer who we met at the start of the film is there, observing the transaction (which later triggers his dream of seeing the face of evil lurking behind the diner). Diane thinks she's in the real world hiring a real hitman. Not so; she's making a deal with an evil force who will change reality (using the blue box, discussed later). She gives the money, and the deal is done. She's told she'll be given a blue key when it is done. The hitman laughs when she asked what the key will open. If he told her not to open anything blue she happens to come across, she'd have been fine, but he's a little devil, amused that she might mess up her wish.

Reality at this moment is being restructed. The restructuring involves several things, including Diane becoming Betty, but I'll take them one at a time:

Next to happen is the start of the film: Diane's wish that Camille be done away with emerges, courtesy of the evil forces. The drive to the party becomes a drive by Camille, alone in the limo, in which she is about to be shot.

Just as happens in the film, an accidental car wreck disrupts this plan. Who caused this car wreck? It's spelled out pretty clearly: Good forces - who have a long haired scruffy guy (the one in the office building) working for them much in the same way that the evil forces have the scruffy hitman working for them. In fact they're both pals (of a sort) from opposite sides of the good and evil tracks. Probably a demon and an angel, in a sense. Think Dogma. Apparently the forces of good wrote in a car wreck to try to offset what evil was up to. Good and evil literally collided!

So Rita not only lives, but she carries with her the bag of guilt, the bag of cash, which Diane had hired the hitman with. Rita becomes amnesiac not only because of the accident, but because she's in an in-between state, neither the victim of evil nor quite a messenger of good who will bring Diane's guilt home to Betty/Diane. She's neither realm's property at the moment, but divine providence leads her straight to Betty.

Betty, the chipper, newly-arrived young woman, is part of the restructuring of reality which evil was doing. They restructured reality so that Diane gets a fresh start as Betty. And it will stay this way as long as the blue box stays locked. The old Diane becomes a corpse.

Meanwhile, we get to see the restructuring at work - the film director is being told to cast a blond Camille to be the lead in his film (replacing every trace of the brunette Camille completely - a different person from out of nowhere); the forces of evil are very determined that this must happen. They're rearranging a great deal, but some of it involves forcing those pesky humans with their free will to do what they're told.

The cowboy - cowboys herd cattle. This cowboy herds humans. He herds the film director into making the decision which is the "right" decision for evil, but we later will see him herding someone else for other reasons, so he apparently doesn't take sides. He stands on the edge of the mountains and the valley. He's neutral.

Now, the problem with Rita showing up is that her arrival prompts Betty to proceed on an Angel-Heart-esque quest.

As Betty helps Rita discover the mystery of Rita's amnesia, Betty is uncovering the clues that reality had been restructured as she'd wished it to be. Rita speaks in her sleep about the nightclub - her subconscious is aware that there is an illusion at work. Rita takes Betty to the nightclub, where Betty has a visceral reaction to the concept that reality as she knows it is an illusion. It seems likely to me that the theater itself is one of those interfaces between reality and another world - in this case, you could think of that club as the White Lodge of TP, in the sense that the message that reality has been restructured is not a message that the forces of evil would want Betty to know. The forces of good are acting like a conscience, using Rita as the instrument to lead Betty to the discovery. (The nightclub is the White Lodge, the mysterious glass room with the dwarf from TP is the Black Lodge).

When Betty has that visceral reaction at the theater, the blue box appears in her bag - the blue box that Betty/Diane was not supposed to be aware of if the deal with evil had gone perfectly and Rita hadn't wandered back.

The box is unlocked, and all the restructured reality that evil had restructured according to Diane's wishes falls back apart - Betty becomes Diane again, no longer living the happy life as Betty. (That this happens a moment before the key is even put in the box may just be a way for Lynch to show that time is essentially unraveling at this point - Betty vanishes before the key it put in and turned because once the key IS put in and turned, everything that had been restructured by evil starts to UNravel - see?).

The cowboy herds her back into Diane's body (apparently the cowboy doesn't take sides, he just herds humans according to whichever way reality - as decided by good and evil's vying - dictates).

Indeed, now back in Diane's body, and all that had been restructured now having fallen back to normal, the hitman Diane hired is no longer even evident as an agent of evil, but is now manifest simply as a mundane hitman (the blue key becomes literally, a blue metal key unusual ONLY for its color, rather than the mystical key). Diane is essentially screwed at this point - she's jilted, evil did not succede in restructuring reality, and yet she is tormented by the awareness that she did make a pact with evil.

She kills herself.

Not sure whether the brunette Camille lived or died or whatnot, need to see it again. UPDATE: The brunette Camille DID die, evident by her momentary appearance at the end "You came back!". I think Lynch was letting us know she'd gone to heaven. But how she was killed is not known or shown. All we know is that it didn't involve reality being changed or having Diane transform into Betty.

Why the heck are people saying this was a dream? Lynch plays with concepts of good and evil forces, and humans with free will adding their input to the mix. Not dreams.

 

[Seth Paxton]

I just rewatched this the other day myself and would like to comment on the Bum as conscience thing. Sounds reasonable, but let's keep in mind that there is a duality of theme in the film. Lynch appears to be indicting or at least debating the ideals and the idea of Hollywood.

It has been suggested that the bum represents the underside of Hollywood, the dirty, filthy side.

I would point out the film's ending contrasts the image of the bum (Hollywood bad/failures) with the fantasy image of Betty/Rita in beautiful white light (Hollywood glitz/dream).

Contrast/compare is a common literary device and strongly appears to be part of this film's coda.


Sorry Will, I can't buy into your theory nor the idea that Lynch wouldn't deal with a dream sequence. Lynch has done plenty of reality-based films (such as Elephant Man or Blue Velvet) even when twisting the characters in those realities.

It has been suggested by others that Lost Highway is a dream sequence film.


And the text itself lends credence to the idea. Certainly a common aspect of dreams is that they involved reality incorporated in slightly misplaced manners, such as having people you know play different roles in your dream. Also, the idea that in one part we have a rather plain blue key given to Diane in surroundings that involve very normal characters, behavior, and settings, and then earlier in the film (what would be the dream) you have another blue key, and that key is idealistic version of a key.

Also we have the breathing and head hitting the pillow (apparently) sequence at the beginning of the film which suggests the beginning of the time frame, the outer frame of the film. This is also a common device that goes back to Dr. Caligari and beyond.

The dream aspect involves a multitude of logical clues in the film as indicators. It may not be right, but there sure is a lot to indicate it. I don't really see any indicators of "evil forces".

Menacing characters are another thing, and THAT IS a theme that Lynch explores. Those characters don't have to be servents of Satan or some other force to be menacing. In fact one thing that Lynch always seems to explore is how such a menacing feeling can be created outside any specific narrative menace. Just by using music, cinematography, and mise-en-scene (and character behavior - not action - as part of that) Lynch creates these moods. To me that more closely resembles how Tarintino created violent moods even without depicting violence directly (violence as a character which he describes as existing in Resevoir Dogs, for example).

 

[Will_B]

I guess it depends on whether one feels that elements in Lynch's stories which seem surreal are real or imaginary. In Twin Peaks, was the giant in Cooper's imagination, or was he really there? Was the Black Lodge imaginary, or really there? I'm in the "really there" camp, and so I think Mulholland Drive is similar to the film Angel Heart.

The hitman and the scruffy guy (who he kills) pretty much seals it as being not-a-dream, for me. "The history of the world," indeed.

Another indication that it is reality being remade according to Diane's wishes, and not a dream, is that much of the film is not scenes that involve Diane. While one CAN dream scenes in which one is not present, saying it is a dream starts to fail at that point, particulaly when there are scenes IN WHICH THE PEOPLE WHOSE LIVES HAVE BEEN AFFECTED TRY TO FIGHT AGAINST WHAT IS HAPPENING IN what you're calling a "dream". The director, for example - the man who was about to be engaged to the Camille, suddenly finds that not only isn't he engaged to Camille anymore, but he's the victim of an adulterous wife! Talk about revenge! And he loses his film. His life is being torn apart and yet, he fights against these turns of events - why, if it is a dream? Why not just have him torn apart, and end it there.

A wish fullfilment to be sure, but I don't think it was meant to be a dream.

Not to mention, in TPFWWM, a blue rose indicated an interface of our world and other realms. In this film, it's a blue key and blue box. He's being pretty overt about this being one of those kinds of films.

 

[JonZ]

Ive always believed that the last 40 minutes with Diane were "really happening" while the first 2 hours(the scenes until when Camille/Rita opens the box) were Fantasy.

The idea of the homeless lady being Diane throws a spin on things but I dont know if I agree.Dianes choices were jail or death.

It was mentioned that the police were asking questions about Diane and I always figured that the knocking on the door was the Police coming to take her away. Delusional(Old Couple chasing her/seeing Camilla) from guilt and with the police about to take her away, she killed herself

I always figured figured the Old Couple as being Dianes "Innocence" before the cruel realities of Hollywood hardened her. Notice the Leave It To Beaver dialogue Betty uses during the Fantasy sequence(first 2 hours).

 

[MatthewLouwrens]

Regarding Will's comments about the "really there" camp in post #114, I am in the camp that says that the Lodge, BOB, Cream Corn Boy and the Giant were really there in Twin Peaks. I thought that was too obvious to be disputed, and was surprised to discover that people question whether BOB even existed. However, I definitely regard Lost Highway and Mulholland Drive as being largely dreams. Interesting theory, Will, but ultimately I'm not sure I'm convinced by it. But I'm willing to change my mind if you give us more evidence.

I noticed the link in this post to Roger Ebert's essay on the film. However, the essay has been taken off the web, and all I can find is his review. Does anyone by any chance have access to the text of the essay, and if so, could they post it? I would be interested in reading it. Thanks.

EDIT (26 October 2004): The new Roger Ebert site is up and has the essay available. For those people going back and reading 18-month-old posts, here it is...

 

[Seth Paxton]

I agree on that point too. It's another aspect that fits a dream mold quite well. It's the sort of fake imagined version of reality, not just a twisted version. Her behavior is noticeably different between the first and second section, not just those around her.

Also characters come and go in her "dream", which fits the stream of consciousness aspect. Forster's detective for example. He supplies that generic "cops would investigate" idea in her dream and then she moves on to something else and forgets it. Were that a "twisted reality" it would seem likely that those detectives would continue to be active on the case, meaning that another scene would be appropriate.

 

[Graham Greenlee]

I thought I'd chime in with a few ideas or two. (I love this thread.)

First time that I saw Mulholland Drive, I had REALLY mixed feelings. I couldn't make heads or tales, and while the film was thrilling, it lacked the kind of logic that I was used to. I recently decided to give the film another shot and purchase it for $10. After a second viewing, I can solidly say that I love this film. Now, I agree and disagree with various interpretations of the film, and I had an idea of my own. It's kind of rough, but I thought I'd try it out in this forum.

I think that the cowboy is a much more important, much bigger part of the story than the two scenes that he's featured prominently in. To go along with this theory, you have to wipe your mind of the other interpretations. The only reality in this is that the POV at the beginning, the cowboy telling Diane/Betty to wake up, and the suicide.

Diane/Betty (who I'll refer to as just Naomi) is a housewife, perhaps in a town far away from Hollywood, who's married to the cowboy. He's an oppressive husband, always trying to take control of Naomi, perhaps abusing her. Her dreams are her only escape from this horrible man. In her dreams, fragmented as they are, she envisions the following things:

1. Laura Harring's character "Rita" is both a facet of her and the hope of finding a loving relationship. She loves her, and it doesn't matter that they are both women, it's just a romance.

2. The director in the first 2/3 of the film is an exploration of a man who is being ripped apart at all sides. His movie is being taken away from him, his wife is cheating on him. He's desperate, and when he sees the "Betty" character, the dreaming Naomi is picturing a man who needs her, yet another character who does so.

Now, both 1 and 2 are connected by two characters who are lost (may it be within the Hollywood system or literally) and who need or desire "Betty." This is Naomi feeling a lose of purpose in her own life, feeling worthless, thanks to her husband. "Rita" and "Director" carry Naomi's characteristics.

3. The perfect "Hollywood" where Betty is wanted, all acts upon Naomi's desire to be wanted, but is also a goal. Naomi's secret desire is to become a big Hollywood star. Many dreary housewives desire this in real life, and Naomi is just another one.

4. The "Hollywood," seen in the last third of the film, is more menacing, and has similar characters. In this, "Diane" is simple a hack actress trying to hold on to a relationship, and everyone looks at her with contempt.

3 and 4 hint at my final point which is part of Naomi's being bipolar. Drawn by depression, Naomi has become bipolar, and this is captured in her dream/fantasy. I feel that the majority of the film is the same dream.

Situations switch, characters switch from light to dark. Coco is friendly, and then cold. Adam desires her, and then belittles her. "Rita" needs her, and then rejects her. But scenes switch from being light to dark rather quickly and unexplainable things happen.

5. Every character in this film plays on Naomi's conflicted, schizophrenic feelings. Rita doesn't know what to do to hide from her unnamed perusers, the director feels helpless against the Hollywood system (and is later threatened by the Cowboy), and the man at the coffee shop is frightened over a force that he can't explain.

These are very raw feelings. They're vague, but exact in that a horrible fate will befall all of these characters, including "Diane" who is being shunned by the community. In her mind, the hit-man represents her resolve that she has decided to commit suicide. His being comical in one scene feeds off the light/dark aspect of her personality.

In the end, it's about a desperate housewife, driven to depression, and later suicide, by an oppressive husband. Suicide is the only out in Naomi's life, and death is a solution in both dream and reality.

Most of the film acts in "dream logic." I, just last night, had a very bizarre dream where things were happening inexplicably but that it all tied in to not my life, but my current "emotional state," if you will. I recently lost a job, I've been getting tight money-wise, a good friendship recently ended, but a script of mine is being considered by the BBC. My dream acted on all of these feelings, and despite my being a writer, there wasn't a complete story to it all. Without going into detail, chains, fire, a smiling man, and a DVD cover box with my picture on it appeared many times and in many forms. It's stuck with me, because they are strong images.

Mulholland Drive is much the same, acting on feelings than a traditional storyline. David Lynch has said that his films are meant to be emotional experiences. There have been many interpretations to Lynch's work, but perhaps work on a "dream logic." Maybe that's the key to understand all of Lynch's work.

It's an old cliche, might it be the puzzle-solver to David Lynch's films. "It was all a dream..."

ANYWAY.... That's just a theory. Any thoughts?

 

[Ike]

I appreciate the more daring interpretations of the film provided by Graham and Will, but I'm not sure they aren't wrong.

(Likely spoilers for Lost Highway to follow)

I should preface my comments by saying I haven't seen Mulholland in a bit. My main problem with Mulholland Drive is the similarity to Lost Highway. Lost Highway is a brilliant film to me, the kind of film Kubrick was likely talking about when he told Steven Spielberg he wanted to really change the form of movies. Who knows why it doesn't get the respect it honestly deserves, but I think it will be like an American Peeping Tom, something that will be seen for what it actually is 20 years from now.

They both seem (using the conservative reads of both of them) about a character who has repressed a murder they committed. The stories are told in their head, so they do not follow a linear progression. An excellent analysis of Lost Highway can be found here. That board is one of the best Lynch boards, by the way.

So, MD felt a little like a retread to me. I'd like to squash that, because I absolutely love some scenes in it-starting at the Silencio scene all the way through the end has to be some of the best filmmaking I've seen in a while. If it didn't feel like a rehash, it'd absolutely be one of my favorite Lynch films. As it stands, I still think it's very good.

Can someone please set me straight? Is this just Lynch enjoying something, so he explores it again?

 

[JonZ]

IF MD is a retread, then to me, he got it right the second time. I liked MD ALOT better than Lost Highway.

The first time I saw LH, I hated it. I saw it again a couple years ago and liked it alot better - but I think MD is a step up in everyway (Directing,choreography,soundtrack,atmosphere,char acterization,etc)

Its too bad we got such a barebones half assed DVD of MD, because I would love some insight into the pilot and where they were planning on going with this as a show. Lynch should have tried HBO or Showtime instead of a network TV.

 

[Will_B]

I love that we won't have any definitive answers for this film. It's been awhile since a film had me wondering and talking after I saw it, so I've enjoyed hearing this discussion. Jon, as it happens there is a Korean DVD, not a bootleg, which has a ten minute making-of, and a 4 or 5 minute interview with some of the cast; I've just ordered it from some shop on ebay and it is sold fairly often there if you do a search. As I say I am pretty sure it is not a bootleg, but I'll know more in a couple weeks.

I too wish they had featured some info about the television version of it. Would have been great to see Naomi in a weekly series! Anything else of hers reccommended?