*** Official "Metal Gear Solid 2 (MGS2)" Review & Discussion thread (1 Viewer)

[Dean DeMass]

Morgan,
I know.


-Dean-

 

[Richard_T]

At one point in the game, I'm asked to input my name, date of birth and blood type. Does this do anything in the game? Will the game change if I play the game on my birthday? Since the PS2 has a clock couldn't this be possible?

 

[Morgan Jolley]

When you put your name in, it does nothing, really.

At the end, your name is shown, but thats all I'm saying. Its not important to the game, really.

There is a way to find out if someone whose name is in the game is having a birthday on whatever day you're playing, but I don't remember it.

Supposedly, putting your name as Hideo Kojima shows his stats (Blood Type, B-Day, etc.) but I can't get it to work.

 

[MatS]

whether you put your name and info in or leave as the default does have some meaning in the overall story of the game. You will figure this out when you get to the end. To say it does not figure into the story is completely untrue.
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[DarrylWHarrisJr]

Man I am half way through the game and about to save the president, and I must say this game SUCKS! How the hell they going to make us play Raiden when all they showed us was Solid Snake. Metal Gear is Solid Snake. I am very disappointed I have to sit and play with this character. He doesn't even look as cool as the dark Snake. And what's up with all the bright outdoor scenes? Metal Gear is supposed to be dark...with Solid Snake. This was all hype. At least they could have told us there was a character change which you have to play the majority of the game with. Don't think I am going to bother finishing this one.

Good judement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.

 

[Matt Wooten]

darryl i think u should finish it. it has some really good moments to it.. don't knock it all just yet. its not playing raiden that got me.. so much as i don't like HIM himself. i have no problem playing as him.. its when your on the codec talkin to rose and whatnot. i don't think you'll feel so heated with the game if you keep playing.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

Whoa, Darryl, you obviously missed the whole point of the game series.

If you want to buy a game to play as a character in a dark setting, then why would you buy a game if another game has that? If you were expecting an extension of MGS's gameplay and for it to pretty much just be MGS with better graphics, then you should have hated Konami if they made you happy.

The game is about the story, the characters, etc., not about being Solid Snake in a dark place.

And Konami even showed video of the outside of the plant place before the game's release, so its not like you could have never known about it.

Raiden is not the best character in the world, but Hideo Kojima compared Raiden to Watson whereas Snake is Sherlock Holmes (Raiden is the narrator even though Snake is the main character).

The name thing has no real bearing on the story. It is shown and mentioned, but its not exactly a plot altering object.

 

[MatS]

significance of name input:
Remember the first time you use the first node in the game as Raiden? Your prompted to input a name, birthdate, blood type, and nationality. Now, Kojima isn't stupid. He realized that 99 times out of 100, the player would input his own personal information. At the end of the game, Raiden looks at his dog tags, the ones that contain his personal information. What does he see? YOUR name, YOUR birthdate, YOUR blood type, and YOUR nationality!

"For instance, take Raiden. He only had VR training, so the plant was his first mission. We all know how he felt confident about his VR training, but felt remorse when he killed people and felt nervous at some points. Well, how would we feel if we were placed in a similar situation? Most of us I'm sure would feel the same. We'd think we would know what to do cause we had this "simulation" before, MGS, but when it comes down to it, we know nothing of how it really feels. Another thing is when the Colonel changed Raiden's handle from Snake to Raiden. We, when playing as Snake, think we are Snake. Changing the name shows how it's true that anyone, even a rookie, could become like Solid Snake if the circumstances were right. The VR missions Raiden refered to during the game also had some significance. I'm sure that a lot of people who played MGS1 played VR missions as well. So when Raiden mentions taking part in the VR missions, he's most likely referring to us doing them.
All this, including Jack's tag in the end, show's us that WE are the rookie's that are being shaped into Solid Snake by the S3 plan. Raiden's choice to marry Rose in the end signifies that we who are playing the game, do have a life and need to live it rather than being molded by something that we see as a casual game. This, no doubt, is a reference to the ending in MGS1.


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Darryl, you are doing yourself a great disservice if you do not finish this game due to your love of one character over another. It will all make sense in the end
I'm not sure if anybody else brought this up, but isn't it odd how Konami had purposely shown numerous videos and screenshots of Snake in various parts of the game, to further our beliefs that we did indeed play as Snake the whole game? Well, they had only shown us EXACTLY what we wanted to see. If you think about it, just about every single picture, movie, and bit of information was misleading in some way, shape, or form. Hell, even the back of the DVD case was misleading... This, to me, was clearly Konami's exact intention, which gives the game much more impact and meaning.

 

[DarrylWHarrisJr]

Guys all I am saying is that Konami should have made some references to this other character. I mean I felt like I paid $50 for Solid Snake. When he died it the beginning and I got control of raiden, you should have seen the look on my face. I was PO'd. I didn't play for a couple of days and told my friends about it. Now I have been playing (fighting Vamp now) since I did pay $50. Well I guess I have to see how it turns out. Those of you who say I should not be upset because of the character (same moves and use of weapons) somehow it's just not the same for me.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

Too lazy to put spoiler tags.

Mat-

Yes, your name is on the tags, but it doesn't have any significance to the story, but rather is just there as a neat effect. It doesn't affect the game at all other than it being shown.

And I already knew about it, I beat the game a while ago.

About that whole explanation...

Kojima said that Raiden was originally meant to show the story through someone else's eyes. He says that in the Final Hours of Metal Gear Solid 2 article at GameSpot.

The whole thing with S3 (Solid Snake Simulation) was something created to be told to the people involved so it could cover their real plan. Solid Snake Simulation was just a cover up for the real S3.

MGS was about passing on information (like DNA) to your children and the importance of it. MGS2 is about passing on the information that you can't give through genetics and how important that information is.

The whole thing with the misleading footage is...well, complex. Kojima wanted to hide Raiden and even mentions that in the article I mentioned. The only misleading footage and such is of Snake there instead of Raiden. It wasn't meant to have anything to do with the game.

No offense, but I think you (and some others) might be reading into it a little too much. Some stuff is correct, but the misleading information having something to do with the game is a little off.

Darryl-

You are not paying enough attention to the game or are paying WAY too much attention to the game. Here's a spoiler:

Snake didn't die.

Play the game and it explains it all.

And you didn't pay $50 to play as Snake, you paid $50 to play Kojima's masterpiece. You played as Snake 3 years ago.

 

[LawrenceK]

Wow....that ign message board about the ending for MGS2 is one of the silliest things I have ever read...lots of crazy theories going on in there that are really not supported by the game at all...Kojima and his team are "The Patriots", we are Raiden...and the first metal gear games were our VR Training, Kojima's message to the gamer: "get a life."?, ........maybe videogames DO negatively affect our intelligence....

 

[Morgan Jolley]

Kojima's message was that you should live out a full life but still leave time for Metal Gear games...

Seriously though, the main theme was supposed to be to show how you pass more on through living than through just fornicating. If you just give birth to them, you pass on genetics, but if you raise them, you pass on information about the world. That information can ONLY be passed on through teaching and can't be passed on through genetics.

MGS was about cloning and things you pass on through genetics (like how Big Boss, Solidus, Liquid, and Solid were all great fighters because of genetics), MGS2 is about the things that you can't pass on through genetics.

 

[LawrenceK]

Morgan: I read that gamespot article on MGS2's production too, your theory on the themes of MGS2 coincides strangely with Kojima's comments in there (though he does spell out the message pretty clearly after the credits role)... ....anyways I agree with you, if you actually go and read the entire IGN thread you might get a good laugh out of it....it is pretty funny how off all their theories are...it's also quite entertaining to see their reaction to MGS2 changed by a theory that is so incredibly bad...most of them state they hated the game before the "true meaning of the ending" was explained to them . As for me, I think MGS2 is one of the greatest console games every made. Not only does it have a message that is a little more relevant and intelligent than most games, but it also has some of the best and most elegant gameplay I have ever experienced. Right now, MGS2 is my game of the year, and easily in the top 3 of my all time favorites. Sadly I think this game was lost on a lot of people, and will most likely gain a sort of cult status amongst groups of gamers, while being regarded by most people as "a letdown because you had to play as Raiden". Oh well, their loss.

 

[Romier S]

Just wanted to chime in quick and say that I beat the game finally. I want to state off the bat that I was not at all into playing Raiden when I got to the plant and had to take a week or two away from the game (after posting here and finding out that you dont play snake anymore at all it got even worse)to let it sink in that this is who I would be playing.(come on! Raiden is ok but Snake is the F'ng man!)
With that said I have to admit that Raiden grew on me as the game went on and at the end I found him to much more likeable than the whiny rookie he was in the beginning. It was nice to see him grow and learn and become much more capable.
The ending was fine with me. I enjoyed the cinematics and the last boss battle although easy was entertaining. The 10 minute codec sequence that explains the s3 project was the hardest for me to swallow and I found it almost unecessary as the s3 plan was perfect with me the way it was originally explained. The only other thing that bothered me were the Rose and Raiden codec sequences. WILL SOMEONE PLEASE TELL THAT BITCH TO SHUTUP!!! Man I feel bad for Raiden having to put up with her at home
Everything considered it was an exceptional experience and all my worries were alleviated at the end. Another masterpiece by Kojima.
Now for the X-box version I think it would be fantastic if they let you play from Snake's side of the story. I think it would serve to further enhance the narrative and fill in some holes left by this version.

 

[LawrenceK]

Romier: yea that seems like the likely scenario for an XBOX game, however rumor has it that the idea of an XBOX version has been scrapped by Kojima...

 

[Romier S]

yea that seems like the likely scenario for an XBOX game, however rumor has it that the idea of an XBOX version has been scrapped by Kojima...

Well, we'll have to wait and see what happens but if it is released I hope they add a Snake scenario to it.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

Kojima said that he wanted to make the game playable by people who haven't played MGS, so he included Raiden as a rookie to this stuff so that all the codec sequences that explain stuff (like how to do this and that) would be included for a reason. Snake knows how to do all that stuff, and if he was the main character, then it would make the game more for the fans than anyone.

I liked the idea of Raiden and see no real reason to play as Snake. In fact, I think it would ruin it because then a lot more would be spelled out for you.

Then again, the whole second scenario in Silent Hill 2: Restless Dreams is pointless to me.

 

[Romier S]

I liked the idea of Raiden and see no real reason to play as Snake. In fact, I think it would ruin it because then a lot more would be spelled out for you

These are just some examples of things I think could be beneficial if the player were controlling Snake. Again I dont have much of an issue with Raiden and if you beat the game I think you get a better understanding of why you are playing him but there are just too many twists and too much story to tell with only being able to play as our new blonde friend. To you the story feels complete. To me it only seems like half the story was told. This is of course as stated only my opinion and some may not agree. I do understand what you are trying to say though Morgan.
PS Morgan....More Silent Hill 2=Good thing. I think playing Maria will open up even more possibilities and explanations when talking about the story of the game. Of course that is another thread I'll start when the Restless Dreams is released.

 

[Dome Vongvises]

I'm kind of goofing around in MGS2 right now. How in the world do I save my pictures to the memory card? I tried the regular save, but that doesn't work.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

Romier-

More Silent Hill 2 is good, but $50 is not worth a few more hours to me.

About MGS2...

I have done a ton of research and such, so I can explain a thing or two (SPOILERS AHEAD, IM TOO LAZY TO PUT TAGS ON)

First of all, Olga got the stealth suit from the government or it was from her little Russian group. Nobody questioned where the guy from the first game fot his, so why should we question Olga?

Snake and Olga were fighting at one point and ended up talking, so they found out about their purposes. Snake mentions it in the game. So what if you don't get all the details?

Philanthropy was started by Snake and Otacon and is pretty much an anti-Metal Gear group. After MGS, they set out to prevent another Shadow Moses by exposing Metal Gears. So in short, they are now a small activist group.

Snake is not the center of S3. S3 is...deep. The "Solid Snake Simulation" (from now on, I'll call it S3-1) was just a lie and was told to Solidus by Ocelot to get him to help him. The other meaning of S3 is the true meaning. So Snake was actually not supposed to be involved with this thing from the start of the game, but because he's an activist, he had to.

The thing about Snake and the brothers is not that complex. Big Boss was cloned and only 3 clones were successful. Solidus, ex-president of the United States and the person who planned out Shadow Moses, is the strongest. Liquid, who was used by Ocelot to follow through with Shadow Moses and eventually takes over his body, was the middle strongest. Solid, our hero who is being used by the government to stop the "bad" Metal Gears, is the weakest. They aren't really brothers since they are all genetically the same person. The back story behind them all is explained quite well in the articles on MGS2 and through MGS.

The thing about the game is that you have to really sit and think for more time than its probably worth to get it all. I have a buncha friends who are into the game, so in talking with them, surfing the web, and thinking on my own, I have figured most of, if not all of, it out.

Dome-

You need the Digital Camera, not just the regular camera.