**Official HTF HD Formats Ind./Retailer/Studio Support Thread-*SEE POST 3176, p. 106* (1 Viewer)

[Jason Seaver]

Eh, I'd argue that a movie looking better does make it better. The visual is part of the experience, and the extra detail in HD does make everything better, even comedies: Fun background details are more apparent, and the facial expressions of characters come out better even when they're not in close-up. Colorful costuming is brighter and sharper. It's maybe not the amazingly obvious things we're used to seeing, and maybe it doesn't mean as much to you as seeing a whole bunch of visual effects more fully rendered, but make no mistake: It's better, and maybe even funnier because of it.

Similarly, I don't think seeing a movie like War of the Worlds in HD is going to make it "worse". I just saw that on film a month ago, and it still holds up pretty well - and if it looks good on film, it probably looks good in HD. In almost all cases, the benefits of getting as close to the original film presentation as possible greatly outweigh once again being exposed to the flaws that DVD's relatively low resolution had covered up.

After all, if this wasn't the case, why did we bother upgrading from VHS for anything but the eye candy?

 

[David Wilkins]

I agree with you on all those points.

Film, after all, is a visual medium. I know a lot of people who feel they need to apologize for their attraction to the "look" of a film, as if they're not really serious about film unless it's ALL about story. There are many aspects to appreciate. It's probably the most collaborative art form of all.

 

[Brandon Conway]

And there weren't a ton of fingers in the DVD pie? Francis, you're accusing Sony and the BDA of taking the very same approach as was taken with DVD. Shouldn't that model by an omen of good things? After all, DVD was a hit the last time I checked...

 

[Alfonso_M]

Sure they don't have to, they are "king of their Domain" now, and they are going to milk that position for all it’s worth now. And if you yearn for better PQ than SD-DVD , you’ll have to pay premium for the Hi-DEF privilege.

The BDA, --- if they were serious about de-throning SD-DVD-- should be picking up right where HD_DVD left off, instead they are going for the easy profit now on the back of “early adopters”, and if in a few years HDM fails to catch on, oh well, to bad, I’m sure they’ve got that covered already, They'll just come up with a different way to sale you the same movie again, and so on, and in the mean time consumers pockets keep getting picked clean.

 

[Brandon Conway]

Any dealership that sells a GM vehicle for below cost or for little profit is gonna go out of business. Simple economics. That's the position of the retailers as it pertains to BD. If Sony sets MSRP at $400 for a player, the retailer is crazy if it always has the player at anything less than $300 for any extended period of time. It's bad business.

Now, you can argue that Sony is making a ton of profit at $400 MSRP. Maybe these players cost them $50 to manufacture. But that's unlikely.

There's nothing wrong with being realistic in wanting naturally dropping prices.

 

[bigluigi]

I miss it!!! I miss the price cuts. I miss the BOGO sales. I miss the competitive dynamic spirit when two huge CE manufacturers were out doing themselves competing for our dollar. I miss the title announcements, even from Fox. I just miss it.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

You guys don't get it...

The reason that no one other than Toshiba even bothered to produce HD DVD hardware was because it just lost money (especially when you factor in R&D costs, not just the actual components).

So why in the world would any BD-hardware company want to "pick up where HD DVD left off" and continue to push a product that can't actually earn them any return?

The BDA's extensive group of all the non-Toshiba major manufacturers are doing what always happens with a new format... charging enough to recover R&D investment costs and make a little money while the format is new and eary adoptors and enthusiasts are willing to pay a little more. Then the prices will fall to "comodity" levels later which will negate any room for real profits... but by that point at least you've got an established production flow and volume so the CE company would not be in such a bad place.

Toshiba alienated every other CE company by trying to jump over the cost-recovery phase and go straight to commodity. They could risk that bcs they made money of software royalties. The BDA members are chosing to follow the traditional model of gradually declining sales prices.

Either way you'll still get your commodity-price hardware, you'll just have to wait a little longer for the the BD-producing hardware companies to do it.

And given the rate of BD adoption thus far, the current price strategy isn't a problem for the consumers who are buying into the format. And as prices continue to fall that market will spread to a mass audience. It doesn't need to happen all in one shopping season. What's the rush?

DVD did just fine with it's pricing model. BD is already CHEAPER than DVD was at this stage and is getting adopted just fine. There is no problem. None.

 

[Lance Rumbolt]

Mr Boulet, I agree whole heartedly..

Some of these people moaning about cost this and Sony that extremely bitter.. just get over it or don't buy into it simple really.

 

[Aaron Silverman]

Trying to undercut hardware prices without also undercutting software prices was a plan that was doomed to fail.

 

[David Wilkins]

Absolutely.

So far as BD not being the "be all, and end all"...well, so far as HDM it is. I don't see anybody else stepping up to the plate.

I probably shouldn't have responded to this issue anyway. How will it ever die, if gimps like me keep getting suckered in?

It's OVER. It's not worth grousing about. Nobody's life is on the line here. For anybody who isn't already tired of hearing me say it: I was once HD-only. I probably over spent on software, for a good size library. But that's how it shakes out. The king has been crowned, regardless of the mechanics of the entire matter, and BD is the winner in HDM. Let's watch movies!

 

[Chris Atkins]

Sure, but the $300 DVD player I bought in 1997 still plays every DVD I put in it (and all the special features too). That's the kind of performance I want out of a Blu-ray player.

 

[Brandon Conway]

It doesn't play any DVD-ROM content.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Including DTS and all branching features?

In any case,

You point is the very point I make over at blu-ray.com. It's one thing to charge me $300 for a BD player. It's another thing to charge me $300 for a player that doesn't perform to the full spec which has been finalized for months (one reason I got the PS3 for upgradability).

 

[Alfonso_M]

Really , thanks for those pearls of wisdom.

 

[Alfonso_M]

Could it be that is YOU guys who “don’t get it” ?

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Not only have those companies already enjoyed years of making money on DVD player sales, but your above post is exactly the reason that the CE companies wanted a new format and got behind Blu-ray to begin with (ie, the chance to sell some new hardware without losing money against the low-cost Chinese players that have now flooded the market). Even before the HD DVD/BD war, you could read about how the CE industry was looking for HDM to offer a new opportunity for profitable hardware sales since profit margins for DVD hardware had been driven to zero by competition with low-cost Chinese players. It was the PRIMARY reason that the CE companies were exicted about a new Hi-def format. Has everyone forgotten that?

No one is saying that consumers don't want to enjoy lower prices. The point that several of us are making is merely that right now prices are already low enough to encourage a reasonable rate of adoption while still giving the CE companies a chance to get what they're in this game to get to begin with: a bit of revenue. Then prices will steadily decline, adoption will increase, and in a few year's BD hardware prices will be right there along side DVD. Win-win.

 

[Stephen_J_H]

I bought an A30 in January when prices were beginning to drop. Am I bitter? Hardly. My primary reason for buying it was to somewhat future-proof myself with one of the better upconverting players out there. I always viewed HD DVD playback as a "bonus". I was not ready to plunk down $400 for a PS3 and had already decided that I was buying a new display before I bought into BD. I'm not typically an early adopter, but I appreciate those who are.

 

[bigluigi]

Nice. Hey, did you buy the Toshiba? 1997 was about the time when I bought my 1st DVD player for that price but, if memory serves, those players had no DTS....so off to the market, again. Than came DVD-ROM, and don't forget progressive scan players than upconverting players....I tried 'em all and wore them all out. But, hands down, the best player for SD DVD playback from my experience is ironically the HD-A2.

 

[Nick Graham]

You were making your points well (though I'm not in agreement with them) until that line, which falls in with all the Microsoft and Toshiba "evil corporation" hate from the Blu-only folks. Kinda showed your cards there, IMHO.
If you have placed yourself on a would-be boycott of HDM, why are you participating in a discussion forum focused on just that? This thread has kinda outlived its usefulness now that the focus is debating a war that has come and gone.

 

[bigluigi]

Relax. Just some guys talking shop here. Plenty of time for watching movies.