**Official HTF HD Formats Ind./Retailer/Studio Support Thread-*SEE POST 3176, p. 106* (1 Viewer)

[Brandon Conway]

Here' how I see things going the next few years:

1) Digital downloads will take a piece out of the home video buyer's market, but a MUCH LARGER piece from the rental market. That means that the vast majority of downloads will be of new releases and not catalog films, because that is by far the biggest part of the rental market. This happens via several sources - online rentals places like Netflix, cable box On Demand services, and now even DVD/Blu-ray discs, as seen on Fx's upcoming Hitman release.

But I don't see there being much demand for, say, the Errol Flynn westerns for downloads, which means these type of catalog films will still be primarily available through home video physical media.

The same applies to TV shows - new ones will be heavily downloaded, catalog ones will not.

2) Conversely, "lesser" catalog titles like the Errol Flynn westerns will be hard pressed to receive a HD video release. BD releases will consist of a) new releases, b) A-list catalog titles (Gone with the Wind, Back to the Future, etc.). Basically, it'll need to be a DVD "special edition" to see a concurrent BD release ESPECIALLY if it's a film from before the modern blockbuster era (Jaws, 1975).

Catalog TV shows from before 1995 will be VERY hard pressed to get BD releases. I even have my doubts that seasons of catalog shows since then that have seen at least one BD release - like The Sopranos - will even receive a BD release.

So, what we have, aside from downloads, is a shared market, and a reasonable one, IMO. A market where Transformers, Jaws, and Psycho are released on BD, but The Sugarland Express, Saboteur, and Dodge City are not.

I can accept that. Hell, I've been waiting for Warner to release King Vidor's The Crowd on DVD for 11 years now, and I'm not gonna pass on the DVD (hopefully this year!) in order to wait for a BD release.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

There are pleny of DVDs to buy while we wait for HDM. Criterion's The Last Emperor (just got the screener) is one such example just added to my DVD collection.

But of course it will be a happy day when that gets replaced with 1080p blu!

 

[Jari K]

I have to agree. I of course want the "masses" behind Blu-ray (IF it wins..), but there are so many DVDs that I still want and watch. "Classics" and Euro horror/etc alone will keep me buying at least some DVDs. But when there´s a choice (HD and SD DVD), I´ll always choose HD from now on.

HD and SD DVD can still "live together", no question about that.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

HDM and SD living together does not mean we can't say that HDM is "better".

That's all I really mean by the "nuetral" comment.

With HD DVD/BD we would get in trouble suggesting one was better than the other. We shouldn't have to worry about that with HD/SD. Even if we chose to buy SD DVD for whatever reason, no one should be offended or try to argue that HD isn't better in regards to transparency to the source.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I'm glad you clarified your earlier comment. As far as saying HDM is better, many of the HTF Administrators been saying that for a long time on the HTF and we will continue to espouse the benefit of HDM in the future. Just about the entire staff owns at least one BR player and we're collectors not renters. However, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. In other words, despite encouraging the membership to strive for the best possible HT presentation, it's still a personal decision to be made by the individual.





Crawdaddy

 

[bigluigi]

O.K. .....but what do you think about what I wrote? BTW, I don't have an obsession with Mr Hunt. I do have an obsession against people that DELIBERATELY distort facts to fit their agenda as should everyone, and if your going to respond to my post, please just respond to my ideas. I try to bend over backwards to explain what I'm writing about.

 

[Edwin-S]

There has to be a line drawn somewhere. As I understand it, the mission of this forum is to promote the presentation of movies in the best and most complete manner so as to recreate, as closely as possible, a theatrical presentation in one's home. At one time DVD was the method for achieving that presentation, now it is HD media. HTF should take a definite stand on supporting HD media since HD media is the new standard for optimal presentation.

Taking a stand for HD doesn't mean that people who choose to stick with DVD would not be welcome. It would just be a formality: an acknowledgement that the best method for getting the best picture and sound possible (outside of actual film projection) is HD media.

 

[Jari K]

Another valid and important point. At least we can (and should) agree on one thing: Say no to downloading. We don´t want it and we don´t need it. Sure, it can be one option for rentals, no doubt, but that would be the only option for movie downloading.

I hope that the sites like HTF and Bits are going to be vocal about it in the future (we want software media).

 

[Marc Colella]

I don't think anyone is agruing that HDM isn't better than SD DVD. How much better and if it's worth it is up to the individual.

If a movie is offered on DVD and HDM, I see no problem whatsoever if someone chooses to purchase it on DVD instead. It certainly doesn't make them less of a film fan or even less of a home theatre enthusiast.

On to another topic that's probably been rehashed too often (but I have to ask), is there any update to Criterion's stance with regards to HDM? If Toshiba throws in the towel (and it's looking like they are very soon), will this finally get Criterion on board with HDM/BD? I know they'll probably only wind up selling hundereds of copies of their titles (if that much) but maybe a higher MSRP of $20+ over the DVD can offset some of the poor sales.

I own 3 BD movies and I've already hit a wall.

 

[Brent M]

I'll stop buying movies completely before I ever move to a download model. From now on it's Blu-Ray or NOTHING for me.

 

[Cees Alons]

No, so why are you stressing that?

Another example: a 15" TV screen isn't exactly as good as a 37" screen. A 2.0 stereo system isn't as good as a 7.1 lossless audio system.
Yet, no one with a 15" screen or a 2.0 stereo system will feel that (s)he is some sort of a lesser member here. Very seldom these points are stressed, we are "format neutral" in these cases. Just like we were in the HD format competition phase, and we will be again in the next phase.

I'm not even discussing the fact here that a poor 1080p image can be less attractive than an excellent 480i one. Or that a muddy 7.1 lossless soundtrack, could be terrible. Or noise, or damage to signals can influence the quality.
Better discuss individual releases on an individual basis, not from a preconceived bias.


Cees

 

[troy evans]

One of the things I'm hoping for is a severe drop in prices for Blu discs. I can see them in the $20 range, but, $30-40 won't cut it for mass adoption. Of course if they do come down the sd dvd releases would need to drop as well. I'm thinking to around $10-15 for new releases. Because if they are on simular price points with each other, besides just not having a Blu player, there's no reason not to buy the Blu over sd.

 

[John H Ross]

Indeed. And there are, like, actual MOVIES available on the DVD format! Go figure! ;-)

 

[Edwin-S]

In my case, making a decision regarding downloads is so far in the future that I can not be sure what I would do. I'm not enthusiastic for downloads because, to me, that marketing model is the most easily adapted to a Divx style model. However, if that becomes the predominant method of marketing films and the quality is comparable to discs then I cannot say that I would not adopt the use of downloads.

Saying never has a way of turning into 'well, maybe I spoke too soon'.

 

[Maxpower1987]

I don't think anyone expects Blu-ray to continue using $30-40 MSRPs. Though the studio has the final say on disc pricing, expect tough retail competition and pressure to get organic reductions on Blu-ray pricing to more suitable levels.

I don't think the market can take $40 discs and the sooner studios realise that the better...

 

[Cees Alons]

Good point.

But, speaking for myself: I'm not contemplating to do it now or in the near future. I love my library (books and video) as it is too much!


Cees

 

[John H Ross]

"Best and most complete manner" is an important point to remember here.

Let's take a theoretical example: Goldeneye. Let's say that Sony/MGM releases this on BD tomorrow and it's exactly the same "version" they released on UE DVD but, obviously, with higher resolution audio and video. Would this be the best theatrical presentation of Goldeneye JUST because it's on BD? Certainly not! The best presentation of that movie would still be the SE DVD with its correct framing.

It's important to remember that presenting the film at its best ARTISTICALLY is at least as important - I would argue MORE important - than presenting it at its best TECHNICALLY. If a movie should have a mono track and that track is present on a DVD but absent from a BD then, again, the DVD wins because it presents that film closer to its original theatrical presentation. I would argue that DVD is still where you'll find the best recreation of the original Star Trek because THAT'S the version that was shown in 1966 (ironically sans mono track thus making laserdisc even more definitive!) not this ridiculous CGI re-invention. Prettier? Yes. Most complete? No.

The attitude that "HD is always better" is a rather naive one IMHO and should be avoided.

 

[Nick Graham]

Welcome to HTF Max! Good to see you hanging around these parts. Don't let anyone trying out their best take on Dana Carvey's "Grumpy Old Man" character make you feel unwelcome.

 

[bigluigi]

Favorable for Blu-ray...that much is certain. Favorable for HDM, quite frankly, the jury is still out on that one.

I think everyone will agree that if you randomly picked 10 people off the street and showed them samples of movies from both formats and based solely on PQ/AQ all 10 people would have chosen to buy the cheaper format. Perhaps Mr Hunt should have backed the other format for this very reason. All that other tech stuff about extra bits is just so much babble with the average consumer.
Anyone with half a brain could see that it will be a major effort to dethrone SD-DVD as the people's choice. Even Toshiba's low prices last quarter barely made a scratch. The only way HDM will move fow'd beyond just being a niche product is to lower standalone player prices to less than $125 and software to less than $10 and above all....flood the stores with new catalog releases. Anyone see this happening soon? Anyone see this happening....EVER??? The clock is ticking as other entertainment delivery systems advances are just over the horizon.

 

[Marc Colella]

I agree.

Another thing that I find funny is that we're trying to achieve the closest we can to film quality (ala. theatrical experience), yet many Home Theatre enthusiasts are buying Flat Panel LCDs which looks a lot less like film than a RPTV does. We seem to give that a pass, but DVD instead of HDM or accepting HDM without a lossless track seems to be blasphemy.