*** Official "FILM NOIR" Discussion Thread (1 Viewer)

[Walter Kittel]

Some more ramblings...
Scarlet Street - A very enjoyable entry in the noir genre that employed one of noir's definitive themes, the weak willed man who is corrupted by a scheming, manipulative woman. Joan Bennett's turn as Kitty 'Lazy Legs' March was my favorite performance in the film. Her ability to wrap meek Chris Cross ( Edward G. Robinson ) around her little finger was very convincing. Of course, Robinson did a fine job in selling those scenes as well.
I haven't had the pleasure of seeing Lang's earlier effort with Robinson, Bennett, and Duryea ( The Woman In The Window ) but after viewing Scarlet Street I'm looking forward to that opportunity.
Dark Passage - For me, the pairing of Bogart and Bacall was probably the strongest element in this film. The storyline felt very contrived and had me reaching for my Webster's dictionary to confirm that deus ex machina really meant what I thought it did.
Still, a fun film for the cast and the San Francisco locations. Some of the shots in this film, particularly around the Golden Gate Bridge, reminded me of Vertigo. I enjoyed the way the film was shot, although the first 20-30 minutes (you know what I mean if you've seen the film) felt just a little gimmicky. Despite that criticism, the film did have a nice visual style ( as alluded to by Robert in an earlier post. )
Next up, 99 River Street
- Walter.
A&E showed The Desperate Hours edited for content, time, and in 4:3 so I passed on that viewing. I guess if you're going to edit a film, shoot the works.
[Edited last by Walter Kittel on August 12, 2001 at 03:04 AM]

 

[William Anthony]

The Maltese Falcon [ Has to still be one of the best]
They Made Me A Criminal
The Killers
The Naked City
The Wrong Man
The Blue Dahlia [sp?]
Just to name a few more

 

[Hendrik]

...add Fritz Lang's The Blue Gardenia (1953) - available on DVD:
http://www.reel.com/movie.asp?MID=44579&PID=10084320&buy=closed&Tab=reviews&CID=18#tabs . . .

 

[Hendrik]

...also on DVD, add the ROAN GROUP 's batch of Film noir titles:
Link Removed . . .

 

[Mike Kelly]

"Detour" is the skid row flip side to "Double Indemnity." Together they make a great Film Noir couple. MacMurray is arrogant and doesn't realize he is a sap until its too late. Neal recognizes it from the beginning, and accepts it. And what femme fatales!: the ice queen Stanwyck and the hellion Savage. I like Detour's catchy theme song juxtaposed with the gloom and doom visuals and Ulmer's devoting a couple of minutes to Neal's classical piano piece in a film under 70 minutes. Neal has one of those faces that reminds people of different actors. Someone here mentioned Brando. One reviewer thought he was a dead ringer for Kurt Russell. I keep seeing Bob Hope - maybe it's the ski-nose. "Detour" is essential film noir for anyone's library.

 

[Dome Vongvises]

I've always heard the term, "film noir". Is that a fancy way of saying mystery movie?
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"I don't know, Marge. Trying is the first step towards failure." - Homer J. Simpson

 

[Robert Crawford]

I've always heard the term, "film noir". Is that a fancy way of saying mystery movie?

Dome,
The term "Film Noir" was derived by French film critics about a film that is dark with a very somber tone along with a cynical and pessimistic mood. The term origin is actually from roman noir translated to "black novel". The term is used to describe Hollywood films of the 1940's and early 1950's that portrayed the dark and gloomy underworld of crime and corruption. The films were shot to emphasize deep and dark shadows as well as many night scenes to enhance the mood of desperation and depression.
Crawdaddy
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[GaryM]

My favorite Film-Noir's:
The Maltese Falcon
The Big Sleep
High Sierra
D.O.A.
A Touch of Evil
Key Largo
....I guess you can tell I like Bogart.
My favorite "almost" Noir's (they have everything except the stark B&W photography):
Chinatown
Body Heat
I also like the SF Noir's (but judge them with different criteria, and full acknowledgement that they are a seperate and distinct sub-genre):
Blade Runner
Dark City
The Matrix
I know, some would argue the last five titles, but I believe good films can cross genres - the SF, Mystery, and Adventure genres primarily, and can be considered excellant examples of each - absolute adherance to the Noir formula is not a requirement for me to enjoy a film.
Gary

 

[Calgary Goldsmith]

My two favorites: Strangers on a Train and Double Indemnity

 

[Walter Kittel]

Well, I knocked out 99 River Street this evening. I'm not sure where to start, but first off - Peter was right on the money about this film. Just a real gem in the noir genre that worked extremely well on all counts. Fine acting by the leads, a solid storyline, a colorful cast of supporting characters, terrific atmosphere, and nice visual compositions all combine to create a perfect little noir that never mis-steps.
John Payne plays ex-boxer ( and now cabby ) Ernie Driscoll who has been framed for a crime and with the help of several friends tries to track down the responsible party; while avoiding the police and other criminals who are involved in the affair.
Payne does a great job of creating a contradictory character who elicits our sympathy but is still capable of violently lashing out at those around him. Two words for Ernie Driscoll - 'anger management' Seriously, Payne does a wonderfully convincing job of carrying a rather large chip on his shoulder throughout the film. A fine performance that puts the viewer squarely in Driscoll's corner.
The supporting characters were just fine as well, with Mickey ( played by Jack Lambert ) probably being my favorite of the bunch. Lambert played a lot of heavies in his career and he puts that experience to good use in this film. It kind of reminded me of Lee Marvin's performance in Fritz Lang's The Big Heat.
When I watch films I tend to look for ways in which they resonate with other film experiences, and one thing that caught my eye was a scene with Ernie driving the cab with Linda riding in the front seat. While they were talking there was a jazzy sort of tune playing on the radio that instantly reminded me of Taxi Driver with DeNiro cruising the streets to the score of Bernard Herrmann. Just a small, inconsequential moment in the film, but intriguing nevertheless.
Spoiler:The 'fake' murder by Linda completely suckered me. A great scene followed by a visceral, but not unexpected, response from Driscoll that acts as a nice payoff for the sequence. Very nicely done.
Well, I guess that is enough. I'll close by saying...
Peter - Terrific recommendation!
- Walter.
I forgot to mention, I saved my 2000th post for this film. It deserved it.
[Edited last by Walter Kittel on August 14, 2001 at 04:19 AM]

 

[Peter M Fitzgerald]

Walter,
You see? I told you 99 RIVER STREET would be worth it!

The bit you mention in your spoiler fooled me too.
You're right, Jack Lambert *is* a bit like a lankier version of Lee Marvin, plus I believe both actors wear somewhat similar striped neckties in their respective films, adding to the resemblance. IMDB indicates that Lambert is still among the living (though his last film credit there is FOUR FOR TEXAS (1963) plus some TV guest credits ending in the late 1960s/early 1970s)...if that is correct info, I wonder what he's up to these days?
By the way, John Payne and director Phil Karlson had previously teamed for another crackerjack noir, the slightly-better-known KANSAS CITY CONFIDENTIAL (1952 United Artists), which TCM is running on September 26 at midnight (Eastern), right after Fritz Lang's aforementioned film noir powerhouse THE BIG HEAT (1953). I won't give away KANSAS CITY CONFIDENTIAL's plot in case you've never seen it, but I think it's enough just to mention that in it, Payne is up against Jack Elam, Neville Brand *and* Lee Van Cleef!

Man, I hope you get Fox Movie Channel, so you can get the chance to see NIGHT & THE CITY (1950) tomorrow (Thursday 8/16, 6:00 PM Eastern), which is, quite simply, not to be missed (and that goes for the rest of you mugs ).

Congrats on post #2000!

-Pete
[Edited last by Peter M Fitzgerald on August 15, 2001 at 10:14 PM]

 

[SteveGon]

I can't believe no one has mentioned The Third Man - geez!
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"Death's at the bottom of everything, Martins - leave death to the professionals!"
"Mind if I use that line in my next Western?"

 

[Kirk Tsai]

Steve, that's a very dangerous move when you consider past discussion on The Third Man.

 

[Walter Kittel]

Pete - Thanks on the congrats.
Unfortunately I do not get Fox Movie Channel, so no Night & The City for me. That film is still on my to see list. (whimper) But I did get to watch another noir with Widmark this week.
Henry Hathaway's Kiss of Death from 1947. I'll have to admit that Widmark's performance as Tommy Udo certainly lived up to my expectations ( I've read numerous references concerning his character in this film. ) While the 'wheelchair' sequence is probably the most shocking scene in the film, in some ways I preferred the scene where Tommy and Nick are at the night club and Tommy forces his moll to leave the night club. For me, this slower scene peeled back the veneer on Tommy's character and showed the underlying cruelty in a more deliberate fashion.
I was familiar with the basic plot points of the film, having viewed Barbet Schroeder's loose remake in 1995. I may have to watch these films back to back to get a better feel for their respective strengths. ( I have the 1995 version on laser. ) Personally, I tend to think that the 1995 version is somewhat underrated. While I prefer the black and white cinematography and feel that the film's locations add a great deal of value to the 1947 version, the 1995 version is not without some merit. I particularly like Nick Cage's Little Junior Brown and Samuel L. Jackson is reliable as always. Anyway, back to 1947...
Aside from the performances and the great cinematography, one other aspect of Kiss of Death that I feel like mentioning is the editing. I really enjoyed the pace of this film and I liked how the film was put together. For example, the elevator ride at the beginning of the film was wonderfully executed. All in all, just a top notch film that I really enjoyed.
Oh, and thanks for the heads up on Kansas City Confidential. I haven't seen this film, but it sounds like a winner with John Payne, Neville Brand, Lee Van Cleef, and Jack Elam.
- Walter.
[Edited last by Walter Kittel on August 17, 2001 at 12:52 AM]

 

[Walter Kittel]

Not much activity in the thread, but what the heck...
I viewed the presentation of Johnny Eager today on TCM. I'm not sure if I'd classify this film as a noir. It contains some elements associated with the genre ( and from a certain perspective Lisabeth Bard's ( Lana Turner ) predicament is noirish ), but the film felt more like a conventional crime melodrama. Regardless of the classification, the film certainly was enjoyable.
Robert Taylor plays the title character as conniving, amoralistic gangster who will use anyone to fulfill his plans of opening a dog track. Lana Turner plays the daughter of the District Attorney who becomes involved with Johnny. Van Heflin ( who won a Supporting Actor Academy Award for his role ) plays Johnny's only friend and acts as his surrogate conscience.
Taylor creates a calculating character who relies upon manipulation as much as violence in the day to day pursuit of his business interests. The portrait of this character was interesting because the violence was not portrayed as anything other than being a means to an end. There was no satisfaction derived from it by Eager, which reinforced the amoral aspects of the character.
Viewing all of these older films on a consecutive basis has reminded me just how much I enjoy black and white photography. All of the films that I've mentioned in this thread have had shots that have stood out in terms of lighting or composition and this film is no exception. My favorite shot in the film is of Lana Turner in bed with the light shining off of the white satin pillow(s) and sheets around her, highlighting the structure of her face. It is a great glamour shot of Turner ( who was incredibly beautiful in this film ).
After watching Johnny Eager I'm convinced that David Strathairn's Pierce Morehouse Patchett character in L.A. Confidential was influenced by Robert Taylor's role in Johnny Eager. The physical appearance and the dry style of both characters is eerily similar.
Spoiler:While I certainly enjoyed the film, Eager's sudden change of nature at the end of the film felt very scripted and unrealistic. The climax did not kill the film for me, but ultimately was unsatisfying. Still, not a bad overall film.
- Walter.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Walter,
I would consider "Johnny Eager" an early film noir. The film had a very good cast with some of the best character actors in the business at that time. My favorite character was Julio played by the Paul Stewart. This was an actor who can really play a bad guy. As far as the photography, just remember it was done by the great Harold Rosson, who was one of the best cinematographers of all-time. Regarding the ending, it did tied up all the loose ends and in the tradition of the genre, the male protagonist didn't Spoiler:live By the way, another good job by director Mervyn Leroy, who's films I always enjoy viewing.
Crawdaddy
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[Walter Kittel]

Robert - I'm familiar with 'the formula' ( for lack of a better phrase ) that was applied to the gangster films of the '30s and '40s. In that respect Johnny Eager is true to form. Maybe I'm falling into the trap of applying contemporary standards to a 60 year old film? It's been known to happen, even to me.
One of my criteria for supporting actors is their ability to create a unique or memorable character in a brief amount of screen time. Paul Stewart's turn as Julio fits the bill, as his character added quite a bit of flavor to the film.
I was remiss in not mentioning Mervyn LeRoy. ( Although I haven't seen that many of his films; the ones I have viewed I've enjoyed. His range of material certainly was impressive. )
- Walter.

 

[SteveGon]

Steve, that's a very dangerous move when you consider past discussion on The Third Man.

I meant in this thread, silly!
BTW, Kiss Me Deadly hasn't been mentioned yet. This is one lean and mean little film. Highly recommended!
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"Death's at the bottom of everything, Martins - leave death to the professionals!"
"Mind if I use that line in my next Western?"

 

[Walter Kittel]

Just wanted to remind anyone reading this thread of some of the films being broadcast later this week...
( Note: all times are Central )
Human Desire - This 1954 Fritz Lang film re-teams Glenn Ford and Gloria Grahame ( who had previously starred in Lang's outstanding The Big Heat. ) This film is being broadcast on PLEX Friday morning at 4:00 A.M.
AMC is rebroadcasting The Set-Up at 5:00 A.M. Saturday morning. Highly recommended. ( Please see my other comments in this thread. )
The following are being broadcast this weekend on TCM.
Anthony Mann's Side Street with Farley Granger and Cathey O'Donnell at 9:00 A.M. Saturday.
Jacques Tourneur's Out of the Past with Robert Mitchum, Kirk Douglas, and Jane Greer at 5:00 P.M. Saturday
and last, but not least...
Nicholas Ray's In A Lonely Place with Humphrey Bogart and Gloria Grahame at 9:15 P.M. Sunday evening.
I have Robert Z. Leonard's The Bribe TIVO'd up and will probably watch it tomorrow evening. With Leonard directing Robert Taylor, Ava Gardner, Charles Laughton, and Vincent Price; it should be fun.
- Walter.
[Edited last by Walter Kittel on August 23, 2001 at 01:06 AM]

 

[paul o'donnell]

Just wondering who has seen (and what did you think of it) Robert Montgomery's Lady in the Lake. Its all shot first-person. Not everyone's thing, but I enjoyed it when I saw it a while ago.
Fave noirs: (no order and some surely missing)
Big Sleep
Maltese Falcon
Double Indemnity
Laura
Mildred Pierce
have those last three been mentioned?
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Thanks,
Paul O'Donnell [email protected]
Link Removed