**Official FAHRENHEIT 9/11 Discussion Thread - READ GUIDELINES BEFORE POSTING!*** (1 Viewer)

[Ravi K]

This is a very complex issue, and Moore's urgency to release a film that could get Bush out of office is well-known. Like I said above, the problems outlined in Fahrenheit 9/11 are not inherent in the system, but are the results of actions by Bush administration officials, hence the focus on Bush.

 

[Anthony Thorne]

It was my understanding that the profits from this movie would be going to charity. I remember reading press releases (in regards to both Miramax and Disney) that the proceeds from the film would be directed towards appropriate charities - others can correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Wan]

Disclaimer: I'm an independent but in most part, I agree with Moore's take on the Iraq war. For the record, I voted for Reagan 2x, Bush, Clinton 2x, and Gore. W. broke my streak!

Saw the movie on a Thurs midnight show in Skokie, Illinois. The crowd was mostly college-age young and they broke into a thundering applause at the end of the movie. I don't remember ever hearing an applause of that intensity for a movie, a stage play or any live performances maybe, but not a movie.

I agree with all the parts that you all said were moving. Those scenes come off as genuine - which is surprising given some of the heavy-handedness of the cutting that didn't help prop Moore's sincerity (e.g. shiny happy people of Baghdad sequence).

I wasn't applauding at the end since I'm a bit a disappointed with the movie. Not to say the movie wasn't good, but I think it could have been even better.

Admittedly, I'm a political junkie. I watch CSPAN every morning and scour various news sites during the day, so a lot of things in the movies are not new to me. I don't remember any obvious inconsistencies with what Moore presented as facts, btw, so that's good. Not that I expect Moore will dig up anything new, though he did, and I was quite pleasantly surprised by those, but he could have presented a more forceful arguement of why he thinks Bush shouldn't be reelected. For example, I would show what the administration is doing right now to correct their mistakes in Iraq and that they're moving in a better direction. However, this doesn't absolve them since they have a pattern of holding on to an ideology and exhibiting a no-prisoners attitude in expressing it. Iraq war is just the biggest case from all the cases that will show the above-mentioned pattern once you put them all together.

Bottom line though, Moore's movie got the loudest and longest applause I've ever heard and seen. Mine probably lucky if it got a single boo since that means someone is still left in the theatre

 

[Dana Fillhart]

Saw it this morning in New Brunswick Loews (Rt. 1) -- the theater was about 1/3rd to 1/2 full; while it didn't get a standing O it did get a solid applause from the audience.

I enjoyed it slightly more than Bowling for Columbine but (at the risk of sounding like a parrot) I think Moore went astray when he spent too much time on Iraq. I would've preferred it if he stayed closer to the topic of the film's title.

Probably the biggest laugh came at the end, from the second interviewed senator's reaction -- his reaction when he realized what Moore was asking was just priceless.

 

[Bryan Ri]

My Review:

Moore did a fantastic job editing together archival footage of his main character, President Bush; it is very clear that an enormous effort went to capturing clips of the President and the members of his administration, spanning 25 years. This was extremely well done.

The documentary was very good at toying with the emotions of the audience: there were moments where I was laughing hysterically, when literally in an instant I was brought to an abrupt silence. There were some very moving moments in the film, particularly interviews with American Troops stationed in Iraq.

Without going to specifics, I feel that this documentary had no hidden agenda, it was all laid out very clear. I don't think it was nearly as violent or grotesque as I had read about in other reviews. The section that dealt specifically with the 9-11 attacks was done very tastefully and artistically.


As far as box office business goes, all I can say is that the film is playing in 4 different areas within 6 miles of where I live, and they've all been sold out shows. I think the movie will do better business on the rental market.

 

[Dana Fillhart]

By the way,

Did anybody else here laugh at the Eric Clapton "Cocaine" reference when Moore was highlighting the Bush National Guard absentee papers? I was the only 1 in my audience to catch it.

 

[Seth--L]

Very well put. Also keep in mind that with any documentary, you're only seeing one to two percent of the footage shot. A lot of stories are left untold.

 

[Rob Lutter]

Dana... that also made me laugh, but most of the audience didn't catch it. (must not be Clapton fans )

 

[Chris Harvey]

I think, for all the anger and frustration directed at the Bush administration, the film (surprisingly) comes across as very American and non-partisan at the very end. I wasn't expected such stanch support for the troops, and found it extremely effective: the various comments by our men and women over there rang very true.

I also think Moore could have been nastier in some areas (in fact, I was expecting this). I'm glad he didn't, as the second half of the film (in particular) comes across more even-handed than BFC or his other stuff. But, for example, Halliburton's various over-charging scandals are never mentioned, nor does Moore really jump head-and-shoulders into Bush's Air Force service (as I thought he might).

There were a couple of moments I thought were over-the-top: the Iraqi happyness-pie shots before the bombing (yes, I know they're civilians, but Saddam was still one nasty dude) were probably the most obvious (to me). Moore's grandstanding about reading the Patriot Act and accosting the senators also came across as a Punch-and-Judy show: not really needed and more serving of a sketch comedy bit.

I also was surprised at the empathy I felt watching Bush sit and read "My Pet Goat". To me, it looked like he was a deer caught in the headlines -- bad bad situation, but not a clue of what to do. A very genuine and human moment, but a very bad moment if you're supposed to be a leader to guide your people through a time of crisis. In a way, though Moore's narration is also fairly snarky at this point, I think he also ends up being a bit less harsh than he could have been: for example, I was expecting him to intercut between Bush's uncertainty and the aftermath of 9/11 (either video or audio or both). That would have been particularly brutal -- yet accurate in terms of the timeline as it unfolded.

Still, I found it devastatingly effective and powerful; and IMHO it should be seen no matter whether you tend towards Red or Blue come election time.

 

[mike_decock]

I watched F911 at an almost completely packed 12:30am showing Friday night. The opening scenes and the first few segments evoked laughter, groans and curses from myself as well as my fellow moviegoers.

During the second half of the movie, I think you could have heard a pin drop. Personally, I felt sick to my stomach, not due to the graphic war scenes (which Moore could easily have used far more gratuitously), but due to increasing sense of pointlessness to the war.

The final scene was a great send-off after a very difficult subject and somehow Moore managed to make the movie as a whole uplifting and patriotic. Once the final clip finished, the audience appluaded. That's something I have rarely experienced in a movie.

The manner in which the clips were edited along with Moore's commentary was very effective. The music was perfectly chosen and the flow of the movie presented the political content in an entertaining, yet serious fashion. As a movie, I found it to be genuinely intriguing, infurating, funny and moving. It's almost a shame that the level of cratsmanship that went into the making of this movie will get overlooked due to it's political nature.

It's amazing how much a "love it or hate it" response this movie has received. Just check out the IMDB Ratings and tell me if you've ever seen such a dichotomy.


-Mike...

P.S. Kudos to the admins and the members here for keeping this discussion of this film civil!

 

[Matt Stone]

That's the same reaction I had too. Very strong moment in the film and history.

I too think this film should be seen, and with the box office tallies so far I'm glad to see that more people are seeing F9/11 than White Chicks

 

[Sam Favate]

I saw the movie last night, and for anyone who has been paying attention over the last four years, there was very little in it that was new.

But what the film does very successfully is put the pieces together to show how the facts interact. Moore is a great articulator, and he makes the case for his conclusions very well. I found the film to be extremely good, and very moving. The sequences of the family in Iraq that is standing around their uncle's destroyed home and the story of the Flint, Mich., mother who lost her son were brutal to watch.

In addition to the indictment of the Bush administration (and frankly, of the entire government, as we see in several sequences), I thought the movie also indicted another group that deserved it: The news media. That so much of this footage existed (and was seemingly in the public domain) and didn't get beamed into our homes every night is a disgrace.

I'd never seen the opening segment of African-American representatives berating the Senate for not one having one person sign on to challenge the election results. That such a thing took place on the floor of a joint session of Congress and we didn't see with the same regularity as the Scott Petersen trial is inexcusable.

And of course, I can't see how Britney Spears' career will ever be the same. ; )

 

[Wan]

I was expecting a polarized opinion across age group as well, but it looks pretty even. Compare the 45+ age group with the 18-29 one and they look identical.

 

[Bill Huelbig]

I saw it at the Loew's Plaza 8 in Secaucus, NJ. You know how multiplexes have a professional graphics card or sign in front of each auditorium displaying the name of the movie - this one had a handwritten card on which some usher or manager had scrawled FAHRENHEIT 9/11, as if the distributor couldn't afford the same kind of sign the other movies had. All the more reason to be impressed by the almost-full house (except for the first two rows) and the likely #1 placement at the top of the boxoffice chart for this weekend, an all-time first for a documentary. It's a truly important, must-see film, no matter what your political affiliation is.

 

[david stark]

I saw Fahrenheit 9/11 last night in Toronto and the whole cinema was busier than I've ever seen it (been going there for approx 15 months). It was pretty much a full house (the very font row was empty).

I'm glad I went to see it, but it's not as if I enjoyed it (with the amount of personal tradgedy in there) or that I found it informative.

I was very moved (and it sounded as if most people in the cinema were) by the personal tradgedy. The main one focused on was of Lila's sons death in Iraq. There were many more though, the death of the Iraqi civilians, the kidnapped Japanese.

As for the factual content of the documentary (I would hesitate to call it that and as some have pointed out it could be viewed as propaganda) I'm not too sure about. There really wan't any new information in there and I picked up on at least one part where he was either lying or not telling the whole truth (I would call it lying) so I found it hard to take any other facts that he told as facts at all.

The other part/style of the film I didn't really like was the footage of people (mainly of Bush) taken out of context and just showed to make them look like fools.

I do disagree with people saying everyone should see this. I think everyone should take an interest in Politics and make educated choices. If people see this film and it stirs them to do that then that is good, but if people see it and come out thinking like Moore then it is bad.

 

[Chris]

I think this is the part I found most dissapointing. Little kids flying kites and everything peachy keen and "wham" bombing starts.. in reality, it wasn't that way at all. It wasn't just that "saddam was a bad dude" but after 10 years of embargo, 1.5 million dead in embargo related deaths (deprived of food/medicine by their government, as the oil-for-food was all they were supposed to have was food/medicine) and combined poverty and real gulags, the "it's so happy & nice here" moment I thought was a real betrayal of the facts.

Having friends who live in Saudi Arabia & now several in Iraq, this was one of those moments that I think would have a lot of the "on the fence" types really question the fairness of the documentary.

I felt a lot like saying: Michael, you can disagree with Bush. You can make your case. But the implication that Iraq was a this independent nation (it was not, as it was under heavy embargos) where people were happy and free and flying kites rang really hollow...

 

[Richard Kim]

Moore points out that the troops should only be put in harm's way when absolutely necessary, which is actually what the majority of those who are opposed to the Bush administration and the war in Iraq believe. Only those in the extreme fringe badmouth or criticize the troops as a whole.

This was a very emotionally powerful film, in particular the horrific sounds of the WTC attack in a black screen (great use of 5.1) and the anguish of the woman who lost her son in Iraq. As others have experienced, this was the longest appaluse I've ever heard in any film I've seen.

 

[Christ Reynolds]

i think i was the only one in my audience to catch it too.

i saw it in one of three sold out theaters in randolph, ma, i guess it sold out all day. anyway, i liked the film, i went into it with an open mind. i didnt try to believe/not believe everything he said, i just listened and tried not to judge either way. as a film, i think it lacked some of the cohesiveness that bowling for columbine had. f911 had a lot less voice over by moore, i noticed. i think he should have explained his points more, i found f911 to be a bunch of war/bush/iraq clips strung together. still an important film to see, whatever end of the political spectrum you fall on.

CJ

 

[Dave Scarpa]

I think what the film would try to do is not reach the informed voter who watches Cspan etc, because you're right alot is old info. But do you know how new this info would be to the vast majority of america whose only exposure to all this was Fox News. Those are the individuals where the film should serve its greatest impact.

The vast population is more like that woman who chastised lila at the end of the film saying everything is staged.

 

[RobertR]

Moore would have "spun" it negative for Bush no matter how he reacted. If he sprang into immediate action, this would be shown as evidence that he knew about the attacks beforehand (no "getting over the shock" period needed).