*** Official CINDERELLA MAN Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Movies' started by Robert Crawford, May 30, 2005.

  1. Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
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    Did you know that before Braddock would fight Joe Louis for the title, he negotiated his share of the purse to have 10% of Louis's future earnings in the ring. IMO, that's extortion so I have a more reserved opinion about how good a man Braddock was and the boxing industry as a whole. The good ole days weren't exactly that good for a great number of people.






    Crawdaddy
     
  2. Janna S

    Janna S Second Unit

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    No, I didn't know that about Braddock and Louis's future purses. I don't think very highly of boxing as a sport, and I certainly don't think the good old days were all that good.

    My father's depression era life was not an ennnobling experience. My grandfather brought my father to a lynching when my father was four years old. My grandfather's response to the roaring twenties and the depression was to drink and beat his wife and sons and daughters until my father(who had the ony wage income in the family when he was 12) was big enough at the age of 14 to stand up to his father and say, "I will kill you if you ever touch my mother or my sisters again." Those old days were not all good for a lot of people - not for Braddock, not for the men who died in Hooverville, not for my grandmother, not for my father, not for the innocent black man who hung from the Stewart Bridge with a thousand people like my grandfather cheering the sight.

    Did Braddock use his name to cut an unfair deal for himself in the Louis fight? Apparently so. Did Max Schmeling do better by Joe Louis? That's certainly true.

    Men have the capacity to be both good and evil; to fight for themselves and for their families and hurt others in the process; to rise above challenges, and to live to regret. I don't know much about boxing, and don't really want to. I want to retain the capacity to enjoy a good story, and, as you point out, not take it as truth when there are other truths out there.

    Watching the Griffith/Paret fight, my mother said, "That man won't live." Is that a sport? Did surviving Max Baer ennoble Jim Braddock? Make him greedy? Cautious? I don't know. I will read more for the truth, appreciate the film, and try to keep it all in perspective.
     
  3. Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
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    For somebody that doesn't know much about boxing, you seem to have some knowledge about its history.[​IMG]







    Crawdaddy
     
  4. Kain_C

    Kain_C Screenwriter

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    There is a good attempt at a physical resemblance between Braddock and Crowe. I'm not too big a fan of Crowe myself the more tantrums in public he manages to throw or some of his other antics. But this could be interesting.
     
  5. Allen Hirsch

    Allen Hirsch Supporting Actor

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    From the preview, it sure looks like this is the boxing equivalent of Sea Biscuit.

    It'll be interesting to see how much box office it does, relatively soon after after Million Dollar Baby and Sea Biscuit (are we ready for another boxing story and a Depression-era, "feel good, American-Dream" story?).
     
  6. Holadem

    Holadem Lead Actor

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    Ugh.

    Safe, saccharine, formulaic, predictable, by-the-numbers oscar-begging crap. I am finally begining to understand why the Akiva-Howard team gets so much flak from some around here. The direction is unbelievably uninspired, there isn't a single shot or sequence that sticskto my mind, except perhaps the scen at teh gate of the loading docks (where workers get picked for the day), which I would mostly attribute to Crowe's performance.

    The first 2 acts of the movie completely lack any sort of conflict. The only redeeming quality is the obligatory last fight, which surprised me by how involved I became, after spending most of the movie alternatively yawning and rolling my eyes. This last fight left people jazzed up and feeling good, a well choreographed and dramatic bout which lasted much longer than your typical movie boxing match.

    I wondered for quite a bit why I loved A Beautiful Mind so much since it is similar in many aspects. Well, for one, ABM had an interesting supporting cast, Paul Bettany's character was a hoot. More, we got acquited with Nash and spent enough time bonding with him before he begun his fall. Not so with Beekman, whose initial onscreen glory lasted all of 15 minutes, if that, before life started sucking.

    The New York Daily News had a full page ad with lavsih "best movie of the year" critical praise, including a "Two Thumbs Way Up" - which prompted me to get into a sneak preview in the first place rather than waiting a week. While of course my opnion is just that, this one of the few cases where I cannot believe that they fell for a movie so obviously engineered to garner their praises.

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    H
     
  7. Kain_C

    Kain_C Screenwriter

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    Yeah, some movies seem to be shipped out with a label that states "Send to Academy IMMEDIATELY".
     
  8. Eric Peterson

    Eric Peterson Cinematographer

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    That was my first thought upon seeing the trailer.

    I was able to attend a sneak preview the other night, and overall I enjoyed the film a great deal. Yes, there was some pandering to the audience, and the story line isn't anything all that original (except that it's based on a true story), but that doesn't take much away from it. There were quite a few moments stolen from the Rocky anthology, as well as other boxing movies. The film didn't feel 2-1/2 hours long, and I was fully engaged for the entire viewing (something that very few movies do for me these days!)

    I'm not a very big Ron Howard fan, as I find very few of his movies rewatchable, and I absolutely hated "Backdraft", but without hesitation I'll say that this is equivalent to his best work (Apollo 13).

    This film definitely had the feeling of a an Oscar-type film, and I was extremely surprised, and happy to be able to see a film like this in May. I generally see very few films between April & Novemeber, because there is so little to see. I truly enjoyed this film every bit as much as anything that was nominated for Best Picture last year, and think that this is definitely worthy of a nomination. We could be looking at a boxing BP two years in a row. [​IMG]

    I wonder why this film was released now?
     
  9. Holadem

    Holadem Lead Actor

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    Well, I loathe both, but I will give the edge to horses as well.

    Of course that's got little to do with my issues with this movie, I find Million Dollar Baby to be infinitely better than either.

    It seems my feelings will remain in the minority. It's a little depressing to see something so utterly conventional is given a pass for some reason. Formulaic films such as this sometimes have an edge which allows them to rise above the fray. A supporting character character which steals the show, an out-of-this-world performance, a few moments of greatness, something. I think very hard and I cannot possibly find anything to grab onto in this movie. And the Oscar talk just pisses me off. I guess I am about to turn into one of those bitter guys who make it a point to actively campaign against their latest dissapointment [​IMG].

    To be fair, while I have an issue with the blandness of the script, direction and performances as a whole, it's difficult to find a bad scene or sequence. The film is uniform in it's blahness, except the last fight. I also like how the final annoucement of the winner departed from the tired convention of making dragging out the speech as long as possible. It was said in a very realistic manner.

    On another note, it's depressing that in 2005 filsm are still made with an extremly narrow view of the racial make up of the populace, espcially one dealing with poverty. Whatever.

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    H
     
  10. Eric Peterson

    Eric Peterson Cinematographer

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    Holadem,

    I agree with most of your criticisms, but to me they just don't degrade this film very much. In general, I think they are criticisms that can be applied to any Ron Howard film, and that's why I generally don't like his work. This film has many of the same ingredients, but for what ever reason, it tastes much much better. [​IMG]

    As for all of the Oscar talk, I take it that you are one of the many non-stop Oscar bashers around this forum? To each his own, but I'm unaware of any film that has debuted this year that has any better chance of being a BP nominee. If you have any ideas, let me know and I'll check them out.
     
  11. Holadem

    Holadem Lead Actor

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    I have only seen 5 movies so far this year, and this would be the front runner, but mostly because it has most of the characteristics of a typical BP Oscar contender, not because it is good. It is not the worse of the 5 films I have seen this year, it is certinaly the most unremarkable.

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    H
     
  12. Eric Peterson

    Eric Peterson Cinematographer

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    That's kind of the same situation that I'm in. There has been much worth even discussing so far this year, and this is easily at the top of the list for now. Hopefully, there are many better films that come up between now and the end of the year, but at this moment there are very few that even excite me. Your comments made it sound as though this film was distracting people from other masterpieces, which is also a wrong assumption of mine.[​IMG]
     
  13. Janna S

    Janna S Second Unit

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    Gee, fellas, sorry it wasn't as good for you as it was for me . . . .:b

    janna
     
  14. Holadem

    Holadem Lead Actor

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    I just need a little more time is all.

    OK, seriously, its only one man's opinion, as valuable as mine is [​IMG]

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    H
     
  15. Kain_C

    Kain_C Screenwriter

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    What's wrong with that? Seriously, because I have yet to encounter that. Personally, I've come to loathe them mostly (especially that last one...ugh!) because they seem not at all about the films they claim to celebrate.
     
  16. Vince Maskeeper

    Vince Maskeeper Lead Actor

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    Looks like it bombed at the BO. I myself am glad, while I didn't see the film - from the trailers I found Crowe to be as completely unlikable as he is in every other film role-- hopefully Hollywood will get the message and stop casting this hotheaded PIA.

    -V
     
  17. Seth Paxton

    Seth Paxton Lead Actor

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    Not to derail the conversation, but Oscar-bashing and being unhappy about films that go begging for Oscars are not the same, in fact I think they are generally attitudes from the opposite side. Oscar lovers like great films but dislike films that intentionally seem to pry into an "Oscar formula".

    So I totally got where Holadem was coming from. I don't like to hear that kind of talk though because I was getting excited about Cinderella Man. It's been a mostly dud year so far with only Star Wars really hitting its hype (finally).

    As for Cindy getting Oscar buzz, there usually is at least 1 pre-Oscar season film in the mix, so its not really a bad place to position yourself (Crowe found out with Gladiator).
     
  18. Malcolm R

    Malcolm R Executive Producer

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    How about "Crash"? Perhaps it doesn't have the big names and a marketing campaign spouting a sense of "entitlement," but it's getting a lot of praise and doing decent business.
     
  19. Haggai

    Haggai Producer

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    Don't forget Sin City!
     
  20. R. Kay

    R. Kay Second Unit

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    The Baer Fight really did it for me. I was completely entranced. Craig Bierko ... you've come along way from that skinny guy in that and 1 & only Larry David movie.

    Before the Baer fight, I had a hard time getting into it. For whatever reason, it came across as phony (although I have to give credit to Howard for its authentic look of the times).

    Maybe because I'm not such an admirer of Zellweger (mediocrity who got lucky). Maybe, when I looked at Crowe (who actually was very good), I saw someone who made 20 million for this movie, rather than the down and out guy he portrayed in the film.

    Cant put a finger on it, but besides the Baer fight, I couldnt suspend my belief that I was watching actors in a movie.
     

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