*** Official "BLACK HAWK DOWN" Discussion Thread (1 Viewer)

[Mark Pfeiffer]

The thing is, with Hendrix/Stevie Ray Vaughan, I suspect that something like that would have been popular with guys in the military at the time. Hendrix was, and is, still popular with guys that age.

 

[Paul_D]

Thinking about it, there was one scene which left me completely dissatisfied: the one in which the Somali soldier explains to Ron Eldard's character, what his ultimate use is to them. If was so brief, and it didn't come up again, until the final credit messages. It felt like a piss-poor imitation of the Mark Wahlberg scene in Three Kings (which incidentally I thought had a similar look to Black Hawk Down). To me, it was just a cheap opportunity to give a Somali character some dialogue. It added nothing to the story.

 

[MickeS]

Paul, I think the scene was needed to explain in some way what happened to the capture pilot. I mean, he wasn't killed in real life, so they couldn't really kill him in the movie, and after he was captured by the mob, they had to show us SOMETHING about what happened to him. I thought the scene worked well.

/Mike

 

[Chuck Mayer]

On a separate note, I was looking through several 2001 film retrospectives, and I came across Richard Shickles' (of TIME fame) list. He listed this magnificent film as #2 or #3. I can't remember, because I got so fired up with his comments. He states blah, blah, blah (well-made and all that) and ends his critique with..."it ends up being antiwar." While I don't disagree with that notion, what movie isn't antiwar in that sense? When does watching young men (on both sides) getting shot to pieces look like a positive statement? I am just tired of Hollywood (and more to the point, MOVIE CRITICS) discussing issues like this with flippant, one-off remarks like that. It seems so heavy-handed. How the hell did he think the two Delta snipers felt when they asked to be let down among that hostile crowd to save ONE LIFE? Does he think they were pro-war? Do reporters and their entertainment ilk have to say that about every movie for fear of looking like a warmonger? I enjoy many REAL antiwar movies. But Black Hawk Down was even better in it's LACK OF JUDGEMENT. It was not anti-anything. It was pro...humanity for lack of a better word. It was Leave no man behind.
Why must he (and others) bend this movie into his little worldview to like it? I think the long and checkered history of the U.S. (my country and Shickles) has shown that sometimes, you have to believe in something more than you believe AGAINST war. It's all to easy to sit on the sidelines and make some pretentious statement like that. I am sorry I got so fired up, but his sort of hypocrisy is astounding. And, in my eyes, disrespectful to the men who were getting shot at (which was not his intent, I know).
Take care,
Chuck

 

[Dean DeMass]

I finally saw this film last night and I cannot stop thinkig about it. Everything I want to say has been said above, so I will not repeat it. I will say this though. You will not find many things that depicts the horrors of combat like Black Hawk Down does. Watching the one sniper, who was protecting the pilot, get mutilated was horrifying. Then seeing the pilot being attacked and nearly killed was horrible. I am glad he did make it out of that place alive.

This was a wonderful film depicting some wonderful people who were heros that day and continue to be forever.

Well done Ridley and Jerry.

-Dean-

 

[Brad_W]

Black Hawk Down is a racist piece of U.S.-backed propaganda crap.

Well, I don't think that all (I just saw it for the second time tonight), but that was a blurb on CNN Headline News. I don't know if I even want to know why people are thinking this because it will just get me real pissed.

Why is it that some films just cause controversy no matter what the content. Remember the uproar from the veterns when Saving Private Ryan came out? Or how about when Oliver stone used sensationalized violence to talk about sensationalized violence? And so on and so forth.

Man, just leave it alone. It is a great movie and leave it at that.

I love the movie, I just can't get over the fact that someone out there has to turn it into that.

 

[Mike_Ped]

People on IMDB are saying similar things. I love free speech! So many opportunities to laugh at other people's opinions!

Mike

 

[Derrick G]

Brad W,

Some people are saying that its racists because all its shows is blacks trying to kill the American soldiers. They don't like it because all the militia are black. Since the native population of Somalia is something like 99% black, I don't know what they were expecting. These claims are from a few people who just want to stir up trouble and get a little air time on the networks. CNN had an interview with Bruckenhiemer (Spelling?) and he said that the thought that BHD was racists is ludicrous.

Some people will do anything for attention.

Derrick G

 

[Dean DeMass]

Of all the actual footage from the real event, I have never seen a group of white Somalians trying to take out the soldiers. People who think this film is racist are most likely racist themselves.

-Dean-

 

[Brad_W]

I just hate it when people get ignorant about stuff like this. Like the fact that people would say that BHD is racist (as if it were a seperate intelligent entity) because they show only black men as "the bad guy." But, of course, they're too stupid to realize that the population is almost all black, hence the "black militia bad guys." This kind of thing really gets my goat.

Ignorance is born from stupidy which breeds like wild fire.

 

[todd stone]

Do you all only think this movie is doing well because we have WAR in our minds since 911?

 

[Mark Palermo]

Not that I support the claim that BHD is racist, but people may be saying so not just because all the Somalians are black, but because all the Americans (except for one minor character) are white. Since we're kept on the Americans side the whole time, and barely anyone is afforded much personality, I can concede that it may look like good whites at war with evil blacks.

Mark

 

[David Rogers]

---from Black Hawk Down, by Mark Bowen---

Page 9

"Each had volunteered at least three times to get where they were, for the army, for airborne, and for the Rangers. They were the cream, the most highly motivated young soldiers of their generation, selected to fit the army's ideal - they were all male and, revealingly, nearly all white (there were only two blacks among the 140man company)."

---end quote---

I left the theater after seeing BHD wondering if they'd pulled a "Hollywood" on the cast to make it all white men, but I was barely into Mr. Bowden's book recounting the whole incident when he answered the question for me. I assume this can be crossverified with the DOD but haven't bothered, I assume this book and incident are high profile enough that someone else, a regular reporter, would have called BS on it if it weren't the case.

 

[Edwin Pereyra]

Do you all only think this movie is doing well because we have WAR in our minds since 911?

You are kidding, right?

~Edwin

 

[Brad_W]

Since we're kept on the Americans side the whole time, and barely anyone is afforded much personality, I can concede that it may look like good whites at war with evil blacks

My point is that this is based on a true story. If there was only one black person in the Rangers in the film, then it is quite possible that there in fact only was one black person in the Rangers in real life. But, of course, people need a "diversity count." Also, I think the reason for the lack of Somalian personality profiles in the film is because during this attack none of the Rangers or Delta Force really sat down to have a "heart to heart" chat with them. I think the reason was because the Somolians hated the Americans and were trying to kill them. But that's just me. I don't know if that was true or not. None of this is not directed at Mark (so please take no offense Mark, I just used your quote to start my rant), but directed at the stuipid idiotic morons out there that actually feel that this is a racist film, but of course forget that this is based on true events.

My rage is fueled.

 

[MickeS]

think the reason was because the Somolians hated the Americans and were trying to kill them

I've heard a few people who actually know something about the conflict say that most Somalians did in fact not hate the Americans. The movie also states that the neighborhood they are in is controlled by anti-American gangs, but that most other parts of town are friendlier.

Whether they did or not, I think it would have been interesting to see a few Somalian characters more prominently displayed in the movie, whether they were friendly or not.

/Mike

 

[Jaime m]

If you remember the battle map in the movie, the place that the special forces were attacking was an area that was controlled by AIDID's gangs. The rest of the city were consindered friendly.

In fact my brother served in the Marines and was stationed in Somalia during the operation. He told me that most of the somalis were in fact in favor of the american being there, there were certains areas that were considered hostile(which he told me some pretty harrowing stories) but on the whole the somalis appreciated the food and the sercurity the marines and the other U.S forces provided.By the way all the other Warlords co-operated with the americans.

[rant]Not to get overly political here but most of the special forces along whith other military personell(including my brother) that served over there are very bitter at then president Clinton for pulling all U.S forces out of Somalia. For them it was humilating and gave the impression that because of that one battle the U.S armed forces fled with their tail between their legs. To this day the Somalis actually believe they defeated the U.S military, which may complicate the U.S mission to go there yet again looking for terrorist hiding out in that country.[/rant]

Just thought it might be interesting for you to hear the view of someone who was there.

 

[Heath L]

Please, No Political Talk
Robert Crawford
HTF Administrator

 

[andrew_werdna]

"Not to get overly political here but most of the special forces along whith other military personell(including my brother) that served over there are very bitter at then president Clinton for pulling all U.S forces out of Somalia. For them it was humilating and gave the impression that because of that one battle the U.S armed forces fled with their tail between their legs. To this day the Somalis actually believe they defeated the U.S military, which may complicate the U.S mission to go there yet again looking for terrorist hiding out in that country.

Just thought it might be interesting for you to hear the view of someone who was there."

interesting. if this is the prevailing attitude among the vets, then maybe bhd isn't as accurate as it seems to be, anti-war wise. though the combat was horrific and the loss of buddies agonizing, the soldiers did NOT want to leave? they wanted MORE combat? yeah, i know they want to complete the mission, and make the loss of life more meaningful...but, man.

the movie is out now and the more observant will realize bhd was a lop-sided victory for the americans. for me, it wasn't so much a battle as it was a massacre of somalis, and frankly, i don't have much sympathy for those somalis who fought against american troops. still, ...the idea of just massacring them, day after day, in order to feed them...i dunno.

 

[Heath L]

Andrew.....It wasn't a victory for us. The mission of Task Force Ranger was to apprehend Adid. They never accomplished that because Clinton pulled our forces out of Somalia. That is why the soldiers are pissed and why they wanted to stay and finish the mission. The day Clinton withdrew our troops was the day those soldiers died in vain.

Just because we killed more people that day doesn't mean it was a clear-cut victory for us. In the end, the objective was met and the two people we were after were arrested that day. However, looking at the bigger picture, the end result of that battle drove us out of Somalia without accomplishing the overall mission. In the Somali's eyes they won the war....and they're right.