*** Official 2003 Academy Awards Discussion Thread (1 Viewer)

[Bill J]

I agree completely. Seabiscuit also took Last Samurai's best cinematography spot, which is even more disappointing because John Toll's work deserves to win.

 

[Sean Laughter]

When my brother turns to me in the middle of the Burly Brawl and asks "Why does it look like it's on a Playstation 2?", you know there are problems with the visuals. What happened to "real" bullet time in these films? Where any of the bullet time shots even "real" anymore, or where they all CG?? I don't know, all I know is that the Burly Brawl was quite possibly the most ridiculous thing I saw in screen this year.

 

[Sean Laughter]

This is also the reason I'm not as annoyed at the "Heart Will Go On" song from Titanic. It's the same situation. Sure, Celine annoys me to high heaven and if I'd heard the damn thing on the radio one more time I'd probably be attempting to type this post in a straight-jacket, but at least it was thematically tied into the score (regardless of the lack of subtlety of it).

 

[Robert Anthony]

I thought Seabiscuit's cinematography was GREAT. Easy lock for a nomination. I would have been surprised if it WASN'T nominated.

I don't know what other movie should be nudged off to make room for Last Samurai, but I don't believe it's Seabiscuit. Hell, we'd need to nudge off two movies, because Lesnie's work really was worthy of nomination.

What would you bump off?

 

[Sean Laughter]

I have a question. What constitutes "cinematography"? I mean, from the appendices of the LOTR dvds it seems Jackson had the entire trilogy storyboarded down to practically every shot. So is "cinematography" composition of shots, or what?

 

[Edwin Pereyra]

I guess there are those looking for that "perfect" list of nominees where their favorites are the ones that should have been nominated.

~Edwin

 

[Robert Anthony]

"What constitutes "cinematography"?"

I know it's been discussed in another thread I was babbling in, And I know there's a professional cameraman lurking around these boards, so I'm sure someone other than me can explain it a lot better, but this is the internet, so I'm going to still give it a shot, pardon the methane smell as I talk out of my ass

Cinematography is basically the actual act of photographing the movie. Lighting, filters, zooms, pans, tilts, cranes, helicopter shots--Someone has to be in charge of making sure the stuff getting filmed looks like the director wants it to look. The Director has his hands in too much stuff to be stuck behind the camera all day checking lighting rigs and meters and such. The Cinematographer is in charge of all that.

Also, storyboards are often deviated from. Sometimes largely, sometimes in a minor variation, and those variations are usually the DP's responsibility. The DP is very responsible for the look. in LOTR's case, I'm sure Jackson knows what he wanted the movie to look like, but it was up to Lesnie to handle the specifics of how to get it to look like that. Where to place what light, what filter (or grading) to stick here, that sort of stuff.

The Cinematographer, the Director of Photography, is DIRECTLY in charge of how the film LOOKS.

 

[Kevin Grey]

One thing I think the nomination of Seabiscuit underscores is the importance of a Holiday DVD release for any summer films hoping to compete. Seabiscuit was all but forgotten when awards first started coming in December but I think the DVD really got word of mouth going again and perhaps promted Academy members to either see it or revisit it.

On the other hand, I think Dreamwork's bungled any chances Road to Perdition had by holding the DVD release for that film until February.

 

[Robert Anthony]

Kevin: Yeah, I made the same point in the other Oscar discussion thread. I think both Seabiscuit, and from 2001, Moulin Rouge's DVD release GREATLY increased their standing among voters. Hold on, let me dig up my post...

"....Because I'm starting to think that the old idea where "You gotta release it in winter to keep it fresh in their minds" ideas might end up going by the wayside if you can prove to keep your movie fresh in the minds of voters by releasing a VERY quality DVD right around November.

Plus, with the "Screener Ban" controversies still going on--you'd think studios would like the option of pointing voters towards the DVD shelf, where instead of a typical quickie transfer, you have a full blown special edition, with documentaries and such waiting to be perused. I honestly think that DVD helped Moulin Rouge get the second look that allowed it to enter the Oscar Race, and I think that Seabiscuit release put the movie back in voters minds, and maybe they went out and rented the DVD that night..

It's something to think about. DVD might end up changing how "oscar caliber" movies are scheduled, if this actually DOES play a part in the consideration."

I'm with you completely on this Kevin.

 

[Sean Laughter]

Thanks Robert. The only film I ever made (on actual film) was a silent short on Super 8, so obviously I could handle everything myself for the most part. I guess cinematography is hard to judge then, because if it's done properly, in terms of using right filters, lights, etc. then it becomes practically invisible behind the composition.

 

[Sean Laughter]

Seeing an Oscar-worthy film released in January, dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria!!!

 

[Kevin Grey]

Robert, your post brought to mind another point on the DVD issue- with screeners going out on VHS tapes these days, DVD presents a unique opportunity to see the movies with crystal clear picture and sound. The transfer for Seabiscuit is stunning and I have no quibbles with its cinematagrophy nod after seeing it. I feel sorry for any Oscar voter trying to judge Master and Commander while watching a VHS tape.

Great point about the added value of the supplementary materials.

 

[Chuck Mayer]

Re: Revolutions not getting a nod. The recent Cinefex weekly update just arrived discussing the noms. They asked Richard Edlund how things work, and specifically asked about the Matrix films:

Q: A lot of people were shocked that neither of the Matrix films made the list.

RE: I was surprised myself. The balloting is secret, but I can only assume that it missed by a vote or two. I think the studio was partially at fault. Rather than have the two Matrix films compete against each other and split the vote, Warner Brothers withdrew Matrix Reloaded from consideration -- which it was entitled to do -- leaving only Revolutions. I think a lot of people felt that the second one should have been put up, and not the third. Plus Revolutions was released late in the year and Warners was very tight about letting anybody who worked on the effects talk about it. It was a big secret. And a lot of people were just 'matrixed' out. Any of these factors could have had an effect on the vote. Still, it was great work, and it should not have been overlooked.

Take care,
Chuck

P.S. It's a free weekly, I recommend it if you enjoy VFX.

 

[Robert Anthony]

"I guess cinematography is hard to judge then, because if it's done properly, in terms of using right filters, lights, etc. then it becomes practically invisible behind the composition."

Well, it's not as if the composition is completely handled by the director. I'd go as far as to say about half the time, the composition and camera movements are suggested by the DP. It's hard to say, it changes from director to director--some allow the DP to have free reign over the look. Some directors are actually the DP's themselves, (Soderbergh, Liman) but the composition is not necessarily the Director's full responsibility. They might have a rough idea of what kind of look they might want, tell the DP to have at it, and the DP takes that idea, runs with it, and composes a frame on his own, based off the Director's suggestions. the Director then looks through his little viewfinder, says "Yeah, I like it" and off they go, or he says "Yunno, move this here and here instead, and then push in when he says THIS" and they shift some lights around, lay some track and they're off and running while the Director is checking on the sound and the FX guys, making sure the actors are ready, and all that other stuff.

I know I'm bungling this, I apologize. I'm sure you could google "Cinematography" and get a WAY better explanation. I wouldn't trust me

 

[Kevin Grey]

The contributions of the DP vary depending on the film. Directors like Spielberg, Mann, PT Anderson, Scorcese, etc can work with a variety of DPs and still be guaranteed a visually exciting film.

Some DPs can really help directors who normally aren't very visually proficient. I'm very interested in seeing Jersey Girl because its being shot by legendary DP Vilmos Zsigmond. One of Smith's chief faults as a director, IMO, is his inability to do anything more than tie the camera off and have the actors parade in front of it as if doing a stage play. Hopefully Zsigmond's work will make Jersey Girl much more interesting.

Robert Richardson's work on Kill Bill was my absolute favorite last year. Tarantino's previous work was a lot better than Smith's from a camera perspective but Kill Bill was operating a whole order of magnitude better visually than anything I had ever seen from Tarantino and I think Richardson had a lot to do with that.

 

[Vickie_M]

I just re-watched the nominations. We have 2 Tivos and DirecTV, so I have the noms on E!, ABC's Good Morning America, NBC's Today and CBS's The Early Show (which is the only one that didn't carry the nominations live).

It was funny to see, by their comments, that Katie Couric and Diane Sawyer are fairly ignorant about movies, not that that's surprising. At least Katie had seen Whale Rider.



Right at the beginning, Sigorney said "Hold on to your hats" - she must have known the noms would cause gasps.

Most of the nominees got at least a smattering of applause.

Whooos for Patricia and Marcia Gay.

Applause and whoos for Benicio, Djimon (big whoos) and Ken (Frank Pierson broke out of neutral mode and said "wow" at Ken's name. Doesn't he keep track of buzz?)

Applause and shocked woahs for Keisha.

BIG Whoos and applause for Naomi, Depp, Murray, Sofia's Director, Lit BP.

Complete silence for the City of God mentions. Either people were too stunned or no one there had seen it.

===

Sophia Coppola, good for her...
the 3rd female Best Director nominee
the first American woman so nominated
the first director nominee whose parent is a Best Director winner
the first director nominee whose grandfather was an Oscar winner
the first director nominee whose spouse* was also a nominated director

She's also had an aunt who was nominated (Talia Shire) and
a cousin who is a winner (Nicolas Cage)

(*I know, but they're not divorced yet)


==========

I realized I'm one short on the nominees. I haven't seen Brother Bear. DAMN! It's still a record for me, but still...

 

[Sean Laughter]

I didn't think the "celebrity guest" knew the nominees ahead of time. Wasn't there one time where the "celebrity guest" found out she was nominated by reading her own name at the naming of the nominees? Maybe that was the Emmys or something.

 

[Elizabeth S]

The omission I'm most disappointed with is Peter Sarsgaard's for "Shattered Glass". :frowning: I would have replaced Djimon Hounsou's admittedly more "showy" performance wtih Sarsgaard.

Have seen all the acting noms this year for a change. Just have to see "Seabiscuit" to finish up the BP category.

And I am resigned to "ROTK" winning Best Picture and many others, though it didn't make my Top 10 of the year. In essence, it would be a reward for the accomplishments of the entire trilogy. (And I think "Master & Commander" is highly overrated. )

 

[Bryan Tuck]

Far be it from me to argue with Richard Edlund, but I thought the effects in Revolutions were far more convincing than those in Reloaded.

At any rate, I really think it's high time that the Visual Effects category was expanded to 5 nominations. There are more and more films every year that make use of very creative effects, and I think it's kind of silly that the Academy only recognizes 3 each year.

Also on the Animated Feature category, I kind of enjoyed Brother Bear, but I can certainly think of a couple of other films that I would have nominated before it. Millenium Actress, Cowboy Bebop (although I'm not sure Sony submitted it), even the Looney Tunes movie. Of course, as everyone else has said, Finding Nemo's probably got it. Nice to see Triplets of Bellville in there, though.

 

[Lew Crippen]

I won’t know which work I prefer in this category until I’ve seen Girl with the Pearl Earring, but right now my favorite is César Charlone, City of God’s DP.

Of all the four categories for which this film is nominated, I’d most like to see it win in this category—closely followed by ‘editing’.