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Not just 3D, is Blu-ray media dying? (1 Viewer)

bluelaughaminute

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Bryan^H said:
The current models notable features are Wi-Fi streaming, heavy on connectivity from other sources. 4K upscaling is a plus.

No eject on the remote? That sucks.
I have WiFi streaming on the newer model aswell as other internet related features although I rarely use them . The 2012 player is wired to my router but the 2013 Bluray recorder has wifi built in .
Neither has 4K upscaling . I'm not sure 4K is something that will catch on in the UK, certainly not in the short term .
As Sony reckon it will only be available via download I'm not interested.
4K tv's are still very costly . It's already a difficult job getting the general public here to bother with Bluray or even switch from their SD channels to the HD version because the HD version is lost in the depths of the TV Guide.
Few are going to shell out for a 4K tv that relies on downloads , won't allow you to own content or play it elsewhere and the broadcast tv here is still struggling to be HD let alone 4K
 

bluelaughaminute

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Josh Steinberg said:
Though it would probably be more trouble than its worth and a PR nightmare, I wonder if studios have thought about locking down Blu-ray discs (or whatever is next), in such a way that they could take viewing privileges away from you? Isn't that one of the things with the new PS4 or Xbox that came out where certain games will only work on the machine of the person who bought and registered the disc, and then will not work on another player? Using the internet connectivity features built into most Blu-ray players, I wonder if the technology exists for a studio to send out an update that would essentially make certain discs unplayable?
I think they tried that in the early days of dvd with discs you paid for but would only work once - IIRC it was called DIVx and it died a death.
I doubt they would have a problem making discs unplayable but the simple fact that the feature was around would mean collectors just wouldn't buy them.

Can't recall where but read around Xmas time that people who had paid for some Disney downloads TO KEEP had these disabled for a time for commercial reasons . Not forever - just for a while . Can't recall why but its a good reason to never buy downloads.
 

bluelaughaminute

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Josh Steinberg said:
How do they expect you to remove the disc if you don't have a fancy, purchased separately remote? Wow.
The EJECT button is on the player itself but I guess I'm not alone in pressing EJECT on the remote before I get to the player so not having one was a bit inconvenient until I sorted it out on the Logitech remote
 

Josh Steinberg

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bluelaughaminute said:
The EJECT button is on the player itself but I guess I'm not alone in pressing EJECT on the remote before I get to the player so not having one was a bit inconvenient until I sorted it out on the Logitech remote
Totally not -- my player is currently below my TV in such a way that reading and feeling for the buttons isn't the most convenient thing. Especially when I'm watching at night with the lights off, it's much easier to hit eject on the remote than on the player.

Bryan^H said:
Xbox One overturned that decision, after much public outcry.
Updates could render any disc unplayable if they so wished. Scary.

Owning the PS4, it is my opinion that it is designed for streaming over software. The Blu-Ray player on the PS3 in intuitive, and great, the PS4 is clunky, and archaic.
It is scary. I'm glad that the public outcry was enough to influence them -- I think in the end, that's what makes the differences (or doesn't make the difference) in these things. Once features like that are out there and implemented, people get used to them, and it becomes so much harder to undo.

Re: the PS4. I've heard that it currently doesn't play Blu-ray 3D discs, so that means it's less functional as a Blu-ray player than both it's predecessor as well as many inexpensive players that can be found at Best Buy, etc. I also don't get why it's desirable to have it not be able to play PS3 or PS2 games, even though those games are on DVDs and Blu-rays. I had a friend whose PS3 died, and he was going to replace it with a PS4 until he found out that all of his PS3 games would be useless on it. I don't get it. Wouldn't you want your flagship, top of the line, brand new super duper mega system to be able to play anything you could throw at it? How does making the player less functional make it more desirable?

(Apologies for sidetracking the discussion, I've just been genuinely baffled at the lack of features and compatibility on these new systems.)
 

ROclockCK

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Persianimmortal said:
Furthermore, all of the players now tout all manner of Internet-connected features, making them more like media boxes than physical disc players. I think it's pretty clear where media is headed. The majority of consumers seem to place a clear preference for convenience above quality, so the manufacturers are following suit. Little wonder then that Sony is struggling in the BD arena. Let's just be happy that we're still getting good release on Blu, because I think HD material on physical media is an endangered species.
...and alas, it was always thus, Koroush.

I recall a conversation back in the late 80s with a home video distribution and sales acquaintance - a cable and tape guy - whom I had invited to my showing of Criterion's Lawrence of Arabia on CAV Laserdisc. Despite much "ooohhing" and "aahhhing" throughout, his street-savvy reaction to this 'home theatre-lite' presentation was followed, barely skipping a beat, by, "Right idea, wrong form factor...the masses will never accept it." "But why not?", I asked. "Do you not agree that this level of quality dances rings around anything possible via VHS?" Without hesitating a second, he replied, "Of course, but the mainstream never considers quality first...or second...or even third...only 3 things matter to them: Price, Convenience, and Versatility."...then quickly added "...but if they ever manage to put something like this on a disc the size of a CD which you don't have to get up and flip every 30 minutes, then that will sell!"

A few years later, precisely that product hit the streets; the DVD (Digital Versatile Disc)...and distro dude's prophecy was fulfilled with unprecedented speed...in terms of both market acceptance and eventual standardization. DVD not only embraced all of the home video consumer's key requirements, but bonus, offered high(er) quality. The rest is history.

However, because DVD hit so many salient buttons for consumers, it was easy to misinterpret the primary reason(s) why folks quickly adopted that format as both renters and buyers. Flash forward to the introduction of high definition Blu-ray, and now 8 years afterwards the reality is being driven home to us yet again, "Quality is NICHE. It always was; it always will be."

So the new P.C.V. for media is streaming and downloading rather than disc. I, for one, am not the least bit surprised. "Plus ça change..."*

* which is why I've staked my home video collection on the Blu-ray format, and am gathering those acorns while niche providers still exist to make them available.
 

schan1269

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Bryan^H said:
Actually, I'm more concerned about the hardware. I noticed a disturbing trend lately in a few retail walk in stores(not online). The Blu-Ray players in stock are all smaller, cheaper model than previous years. Sony, and Samsung, and LG all have very small very basic models with the high cost being right around $100. They look cheap, and probably perform the same.

I know you can get high quality Blu-Ray players without a problem online so I'm not too worried yet, but I seem to remember well before the launch of Blu-Ray, that dvd players across the board turned from nice, quality aesthetically pleasing units to small cheap little things from all the well known manufacturers, that have a life span half of what the first dvd players had(Last time I checked my first Toshiba dvd player($300 in 1998) I gave my friend is still functioning well.
Blu-Ray from Sony in 2014:
attachicon.gif
br1.jpg
attachicon.gif
br2.jpg
and from 2009:
attachicon.gif
bd3.jpg
attachicon.gif
bd4.jpg

I sure don't want a Blu-Ray player from Sony on my shelf that is 8" wide, and has 12 buttons on the remote. The simplicity to me is the first sign of losing interest and sacrificing progression for low cost machines that aren't very good.

I may start buying many 3-D high end players if I notice them drying up. And I will stay alert on this matter. Paranoid...maybe, but like the old adage says "It's better to be safe than sorry".
Regarding the pics...

Analog Sunset
 

bruceames

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Josh Steinberg said:
I gotta say, as much as I love Blu-ray as a whole, there are some real head-scratchers built into the technology. That there are tons of discs that are impossible to stop and then resume where you left off is mind-boggling to me -- when I got my first Blu-ray player, I never imagined that in some aspects, it would be less functional than VHS!

I am stumped by this as well. They have somehow made Blu-ray less convenient than DVD. Slower load times, occasional firmware issues, and lack of resume on many movies. The average consumer always gravitates toward maximum convenience so it's something that should have been given more consideration during the development stages. And this issue is, I'm sure, at least partly responsible for Blu-ray glacial pace of market share growth.
 

Carlo_M

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When discussing BD's difficult road to hoe (and never measuring up to DVD's market penetration and level of consumption), don't forget to factor in the economic conditions that BD has had to grow up in. The great recession in America started while BD was trying to break into the mainstream, and while all the economic indicators say that it ended a long time ago, I know many people whose level of personal disposable income have only just recently begun to match their pre-recession levels (and some who still haven't fully recovered). Wall Street may be fine now but Main Street isn't.
 

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Josh Steinberg said:
I wonder if the technology exists for a studio to send out an update that would essentially make certain discs unplayable?
Yes. There has always been software protection as part of the Blu-ray initial specifications to control most consumer players.. All Blu-ray players that are updated with the pertinent software updates would make a targeted disc unplayable without some type of hack.. And not doing the update will make future discs unplayable, so the player would need to be saved in the prior condition for the purpose of playing the targeted discs.

BD+
Per Wikipeda: BD+
BD+ was developed by Cryptography Research Inc. and is based on their concept of Self-Protecting Digital Content.[173] BD+, effectively a small virtual machine embedded in authorized players, allows content providers to include executable programs on Blu-ray Discs. Such programs can:[166]

[*]Examine the host environment to see if the player has been tampered with. Every licensed playback device manufacturer must provide the BD+ licensing authority with memory footprints that identify their devices.
[*]Verify that the player's keys have not been changed
[*]Execute native code, possibly to patch an otherwise insecure system
[*]Transform the audio and video output. Parts of the content will not be viewable without letting the BD+ program unscramble it.
[/list]
If a playback device manufacturer finds that its devices have been hacked, it can potentially release BD+ code that detects and circumvents the vulnerability. These programs can then be included in all new content releases.[174]
The specifications of the BD+ virtual machine are available only to licensed device manufacturers. A list of licensed commercial adopters is available from the BD+ website.
The first titles using BD+ were released in October 2007. Since November 2007, versions of BD+ protection have been circumvented by various versions of the AnyDVD HD program.[175][176] Other programs known to be capable of circumventing BD+ protection are DumpHD (versions 0.6 and above, along with some supporting software),[177] MakeMKV,[178] and two applications from DVDFab (Passkey and HD Decrypter[179]).
 

Brandon Conway

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Josh Steinberg said:
Re: the PS4. I've heard that it currently doesn't play Blu-ray 3D discs, so that means it's less functional as a Blu-ray player than both it's predecessor as well as many inexpensive players that can be found at Best Buy, etc. I also don't get why it's desirable to have it not be able to play PS3 or PS2 games, even though those games are on DVDs and Blu-rays. I had a friend whose PS3 died, and he was going to replace it with a PS4 until he found out that all of his PS3 games would be useless on it. I don't get it. Wouldn't you want your flagship, top of the line, brand new super duper mega system to be able to play anything you could throw at it? How does making the player less functional make it more desirable?
The PS4 doesn't currently play Blu-ray 3D, but can output a 3D signal, so it's really a matter of a firmware update.As for backwards compatibility with PS1-3 discs, they designed it to specifically not be able to do it because doing so made it far less troublesome from a hardware & programming aspect for PS4 games. One of the things that made the PS3 notoriously difficult to program for was its backwards compatibility, which is one reason PS2 disc support was dropped early on re-design.While it's a little more inconvenient to keep both the PS3 and PS4 hooked up than it would be to drop the former altogether, it's not really that bad IMO, as they are both HD and use HDMI. It's the even older SD/AV cable machines that are troublesome.Sent from my VS920 4G using Tapatalk
 

bruceames

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Paul Hillenbrand said:
Yes. There has always been software protection as part of the Blu-ray initial specifications to control most consumer players.. All Blu-ray players that are updated with the pertinent software updates would make a targeted disc unplayable without some type of hack.. And not doing the update will make future discs unplayable, so the player would need to be saved in the prior condition for the purpose of playing the targeted discs.

BD+
Per Wikipeda: BD+
Exactly why I have 3 iso-compatible Oppo players (well that and wanting a Cinavia-free player). Never tried a disc that wouldn't play, and should that day come, I can just make an ISO which will play. Don't have worry about them messing with my players because they never get updated.
 

ROclockCK

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Paul Hillenbrand said:
Yes. There has always been software protection as part of the Blu-ray initial specifications to control most consumer players.. All Blu-ray players that are updated with the pertinent software updates would make a targeted disc unplayable without some type of hack.. And not doing the update will make future discs unplayable, so the player would need to be saved in the prior condition for the purpose of playing the targeted discs.

BD+
Per Wikipeda: BD+
An example of this seems to have hit me mere days ago Paul...with, of all things, Warner Archive's Blu-ray of The Americanization of Emily.

A few months ago, I changed my WiFi network name, but forgot to update my PS3, so its SSID was still pointing to the old network, and thus unable to acquire an IP. When I popped in my TAOE disc, it would not even load, so I thought "A-ha, I need a firmware upgrade!" But wait just a minute here, when I read the error message more closely, it wasn't telling me that out of date PS3 firmware was preventing playback...this WAC disc was searching for an "encryption key" via the Internet, which was temporarily down due to my stale network config.

Once I restored network access - significantly, before updating my PS3 firmware - the disc indeed found its "encryption key", and loaded/played just fine.

I'm somewhat uneasy though over the implications of this...I mean, "Why would 'Net access be required for playback?" Or in a worst case, "Could this disc and its content be disabled remotely at some point unless I purcha$e a new encryption key?" Or, "Is this simply another type of DRM for hard media, intended to thwart unauthorized ripping/copying?"

I'm trying to keep my paranoia in check here, but your Wiki blurb goes a long way toward explaining how the longer reach of DRM in the Blu-ray spec *could* be used in less seemly ways.
 

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The primary reason many opt for streaming is because the greedy studios set-up the 28-day (or more) moratorium on BD rentals. If CAPT AMERICA 2 came out tomorrow, you would not be able to rent it for at least a month. But you're allowed to stream it right away. And, when you ARE able to rent the BD, the discs have been stripped of all extras so that (to the average consumer) the disc offers no additional value. MAke no mistake...despite what consumers may want, the video industry is doing everything in its power to eliminate BD (and 3D as well) for the home. So I'm HAPPY that SONY is hurting. But it is what they've worked for.
 

bruceames

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RJ992 said:
The primary reason many opt for streaming is because the greedy studios set-up the 28-day (or more) moratorium on BD rentals. If CAPT AMERICA 2 came out tomorrow, you would not be able to rent it for at least a month. But you're allowed to stream it right away. And, when you ARE able to rent the BD, the discs have been stripped of all extras so that (to the average consumer) the disc offers no additional value. MAke no mistake...despite what consumers may want, the video industry is doing everything in its power to eliminate BD (and 3D as well) for the home. So I'm HAPPY that SONY is hurting. But it is what they've worked for.
You're talking about $6.00 VOD streaming, right? Because Netflix streams movies many moons after the 28 moratorium on BD rentals has expired.

VOD is not a booming revenue category.
 

Ejanss

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ROclockCK said:
I recall a conversation back in the late 80s with a home video distribution and sales acquaintance - a cable and tape guy - whom I had invited to my showing of Criterion's Lawrence of Arabia on CAV Laserdisc. Despite much "ooohhing" and "aahhhing" throughout, his street-savvy reaction to this 'home theatre-lite' presentation was followed, barely skipping a beat, by, "Right idea, wrong form factor...the masses will never accept it." "But why not?", I asked. "Do you not agree that this level of quality dances rings around anything possible via VHS?" Without hesitating a second, he replied, "Of course, but the mainstream never considers quality first...or second...or even third...only 3 things matter to them: Price, Convenience, and Versatility."...then quickly added "...but if they ever manage to put something like this on a disc the size of a CD which you don't have to get up and flip every 30 minutes, then that will sell!"


However, because DVD hit so many salient buttons for consumers, it was easy to misinterpret the primary reason(s) why folks quickly adopted that format as both renters and buyers. Flash forward to the introduction of high definition Blu-ray, and now 8 years afterwards the reality is being driven home to us yet again, "Quality is NICHE. It always was; it always will be."
The "Price, convenience and versatility" rule sounds a bit like that Dilbert Principle rule that any new system or technology must take into account its users will be "Lazy, greedy and horny". ;)
Which applies to home theater as well: Lazy, in that people will want not want to jump on any trend they have to spend too much time tracking down (which was the problem with laserdiscs, that you were lucky to find one shop of in a big city, or order by mail, which DID make them a "niche"); Greedy, in that they don't want to buy expensive new hardware for the sake of it (which was the fallacy brought home to the 3D and 4K companies) and didn't want to spend money buying movies twice or pay for each viewing. (And "Horny", well, dig out the old "HDDVD has porn" jokes, and realize it didn't work, since we have the Internet now.)

DVD worked on the average user because it solved problems: There was no rewinding, disks were indestructible (and didn't decay with each viewing like VHS), they were a lot more portable than clunky VHS tapes, and every title was available to buy.
Those problems, and disks' solutions of them, haven't changed since the days of DVD, we've just forgotten what it was like to have those problems, and remember them solved for us.
Painting Blu-ray as "Well, it's too good" doesn't equate it with Laserdisk, since Blu-ray beat Laserdisk in every single area that DVD did, convenience, portability, price and mainstream availability--It even solved a problem at the time that we've practically forgotten now, the '08 digital/HDTV changeover. The whole question is over whether we "still like" hard disk, and I'm guessing those memories of what problems DVD solved will come back to us pretty quickly, once we come up against the problems that Streaming media causes--Being attached to an Internet connection, bandwidth speeds, companies asking you to pay for their theatrical shortfalls with expensive "preorders", and realizing that no movie is "forever" if it isn't on your shelf.

Everyone says "Well, the kids like it", and well, the kids don't remember what it was like to guard the movies on your shelf that you didn't think were ever going to show randomly on TV again. They may just find out.
 

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ROclockCK said:
...and alas, it was always thus, Koroush.

I recall a conversation back in the late 80s with a home video distribution and sales acquaintance - a cable and tape guy - whom I had invited to my showing of Criterion's Lawrence of Arabia on CAV Laserdisc. Despite much "ooohhing" and "aahhhing" throughout, his street-savvy reaction to this 'home theatre-lite' presentation was followed, barely skipping a beat, by, "Right idea, wrong form factor...the masses will never accept it." "But why not?", I asked. "Do you not agree that this level of quality dances rings around anything possible via VHS?" Without hesitating a second, he replied, "Of course, but the mainstream never considers quality first...or second...or even third...only 3 things matter to them: Price, Convenience, and Versatility."...then quickly added "...but if they ever manage to put something like this on a disc the size of a CD which you don't have to get up and flip every 30 minutes, then that will sell!"
I'm somewhat ashamed to admit that in my foolish youth, I had much the same thoughts about Laserdisc. As a 21 year old back in 1992, while visiting a hi-fi store to buy some home theater components, I demoed a Laserdisc player. While I wound up buying the amp they used for the demo, I got a top-end VHS player instead of the laserdisc player. On the relatively small CRT TVs of the time, at normal viewing distance, I felt that the image quality difference just wasn't noticeable enough for me to justify buying into what looked to be an awkwardly large, obscure, non-recordable format as my main movie playback device. With a VHS player I could play movies, I could record off TV, and importantly, I had access to a huge range of rental titles from my local video store. I never built up a VHS library of movies greater than 20 titles precisely because I rented everything I wanted to watch back then. It was only with the introduction of DVD, which was essentially a "perfect storm" of price, quality and convenience that I established a larger library of favorites.

I have some empathy for people who don't notice or care about the image quality difference between DVD and Blu-ray, or between streaming/digital download and Blu-ray. Let's keep in mind that for most people, the ultimate goal is to watch a movie for its contents, and not so much the perfection of its presentation.

The more I think about it, the more I'm surprised and grateful that Blu-ray has stuck around as long as it has, with as many titles released on the format as we've had.

ROclockCK said:
An example of this seems to have hit me mere days ago Paul...with, of all things, Warner Archive's Blu-ray of The Americanization of Emily.

A few months ago, I changed my WiFi network name, but forgot to update my PS3, so its SSID was still pointing to the old network, and thus unable to acquire an IP. When I popped in my TAOE disc, it would not even load, so I thought "A-ha, I need a firmware upgrade!" But wait just a minute here, when I read the error message more closely, it wasn't telling me that out of date PS3 firmware was preventing playback...this WAC disc was searching for an "encryption key" via the Internet, which was temporarily down due to my stale network config.

Once I restored network access - significantly, before updating my PS3 firmware - the disc indeed found its "encryption key", and loaded/played just fine.

I'm somewhat uneasy though over the implications of this...I mean, "Why would 'Net access be required for playback?" Or in a worst case, "Could this disc and its content be disabled remotely at some point unless I purcha$e a new encryption key?" Or, "Is this simply another type of DRM for hard media, intended to thwart unauthorized ripping/copying?"

I'm trying to keep my paranoia in check here, but your Wiki blurb goes a long way toward explaining how the longer reach of DRM in the Blu-ray spec *could* be used in less seemly ways.
Internet access isn't required for BD playback as such, your PS3 was renewing its AACS encryption key as covered in the PS3 manual here:

You may have to renew the AACS encryption key to play content such as movies on commercially available BD video software (BD-ROM). If a message indicating that the encryption key needs to be renewed is displayed, update the system software to the latest version. The encryption key will then be automatically renewed.

AACS (Advanced Access Content System) is a copyright-protection technology that is used on Blu-ray movies. The copyrighted content is protected by setting an encryption key on both the disc and the device used to play the disc.An AACS encryption key expires in 12 to 18 months and must be renewed. There may also be other times when the key has to be renewed.

You don't need to be connected to the Internet to play a disc, you just need recent firmware. It's the firmware that contains updated AACS encryption keys which are compatible with those on more recent Blu-ray discs. All players are affected by this. E.g. see this Samsung FAQ which says:

Why do I need to update firmware for disc compatibility?One of the main reasons include copy protection. The Blu-ray format utilizes a variety of copy protection methods such as DRM (Digital Rights Management) and AACS (Advanced Access Content System) to prevent Blu-ray Disc movies from being pirated. Each movie is encrypted with a unique title key, and several copies of the title key, encrypted with different processing keys, are stored on the disc. When you play a disc the Blu-ray player figures out which of the encrypted title keys it has the ability to decrypt. Then it uses its device keys to compute the necessary processing key, uses the processing key to decrypt the title key, and then uses the title key to extract the content (movie) and finally begins playing the movie. Since the Blu-ray format has not been standardized, AACS keys and their decryption methods change from one movie producer to another. This keeps hackers from ‘cracking’ the encryption keys and making copies of the movie and selling /or uploading it online. If the player doesn’t recognize or can’t process any of the AACS keys, the disc may not play properly or at all.
The main reason for AACS encryption is to prevent hacked devices from working. This includes hacked Blu-ray playback software.

I've had several Panasonic players that have literally never been connected to the Internet. I disable all Internet connectivity on purpose, and update firmware by burning it to CD first then loading it into the player to flash the firmware that way. I've never had any disc raise a warning or prompt, since of course the firmware is relatively up-to-date. So there's no requirement that the player ever be connected to the Internet, just regular firmware updates. Tangentially, this is why anyone considering a region-free Blu-ray player needs to either buy a hardware modded player that specifically allows normal firmware updates (e.g. the ICOS hardware mod), or have a source for regular firmware updates if using modded region-free firmware - as we discuss in this thread.
I certainly don't like DRM, but it's one of those things that goes with the territory. Again, I don't want to skew the discussion with talk of piracy, but there are many, many examples I can give of products with absolutely no DRM that have 90%+ piracy rates, despite being readily available at a low price (in one example, as low as $1) and produced by small independents. See our piracy thread for the lengthy debate we had on this issue, with examples aplenty.

While it's true that we are only licensed, not outright, owners of a film on disc, I agree that when we buy a movie on BD, we have a right to expect consistency and longevity in our purchase, allowing us to play that movie as often as we want on a legitimate playback device. The problem is that as soon as studios introduce any leeway into the process, it also opens them up to massive abuse. I don't think updating the firmware on a playback device once every 12-18 months is excessively restrictive. It would be nice if even that wasn't necessary, but commercial realities dictate such things.
 

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Persianimmortal said:
Internet access isn't required for BD playback as such, your PS3 was renewing its AACS encryption key as covered in the PS3 manual here:

You don't need to be connected to the Internet to play a disc, you just need recent firmware. It's the firmware that contains updated AACS encryption keys which are compatible with those on more recent Blu-ray discs. All players are affected by this. E.g. see this Samsung FAQ which says:

The main reason for AACS encryption is to prevent hacked devices from working. This includes hacked Blu-ray playback software.

I've had several Panasonic players that have literally never been connected to the Internet. I disable all Internet connectivity on purpose, and update firmware by burning it to CD first then loading it into the player to flash the firmware that way. I've never had any disc raise a warning or prompt, since of course the firmware is relatively up-to-date. So there's no requirement that the player ever be connected to the Internet, just regular firmware updates. Tangentially, this is why anyone considering a region-free Blu-ray player needs to either buy a hardware modded player that specifically allows normal firmware updates (e.g. the ICOS hardware mod), or have a source for regular firmware updates if using modded region-free firmware - as we discuss in this thread.
I certainly don't like DRM, but it's one of those things that goes with the territory. Again, I don't want to skew the discussion with talk of piracy, but there are many, many examples I can give of products with absolutely no DRM that have 90%+ piracy rates, despite being readily available at a low price (in one example, as low as $1) and produced by small independents. See our piracy thread for the lengthy debate we had on this issue, with examples aplenty.

While it's true that we are only licensed, not outright, owners of a film on disc, I agree that when we buy a movie on BD, we have a right to expect consistency and longevity in our purchase, allowing us to play that movie as often as we want on a legitimate playback device. The problem is that as soon as studios introduce any leeway into the process, it also opens them up to massive abuse. I don't think updating the firmware on a playback device once every 12-18 months is excessively restrictive. It would be nice if even that wasn't necessary, but commercial realities dictate such things.
Whew! Thanks for that detailed explanation Koroush. In 6 years of PS3 use, I had never received any message specifically requesting renewal of the "encryption key"...only general firmware updates. Given my IT background, I guess I just defaulted to thinking this message was referring to the software (i.e. the content). The way you explain it, I guess that does happen, but it's embedded within the larger firmware upgrade...not some tracking control code for a specific studio and/or title.

Thanks again for your insight! I will sleep better now... ^_^
 

RJ992

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bruceames said:
You're talking about $6.00 VOD streaming, right? Because Netflix streams movies many moons after the 28 moratorium on BD rentals has expired.

VOD is not a booming revenue category.
referring to Vudu, CinemaNow, OnDemand, etc.
 

Todd H

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Tried Netflix streaming free for a month and almost went over my ISP's data allotment. Thanks but no thanks. I'll stick with physical media as long as I can.
 

jcroy

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ROclockCK said:
Whew! Thanks for that detailed explanation Koroush. In 6 years of PS3 use, I had never received any message specifically requesting renewal of the "encryption key"...only general firmware updates. Given my IT background, I guess I just defaulted to thinking this message was referring to the software (i.e. the content). The way you explain it, I guess that does happen, but it's embedded within the larger firmware upgrade...not some tracking control code for a specific studio and/or title.

Thanks again for your insight! I will sleep better now... ^_^
In practice, the PS3 and computer bd drives are a lot easier to hack than most standalone bluray players. It should be no surprise at all that aacs encryption key upgrades are more common on devices that are easier to hack.

The way aacs was designed, it has a semi-effective "traitor tracing" algorithm which dvd css did not really have.
 

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