Not just 3D, is Blu-ray media dying? (1 Viewer)

[bruceames]

It's all just digital data, though. Whether it's downloaded or streamed off the internet, or burned or pressed onto a disc, it's all a bunch of zeroes and ones in a file.

That's the way I look at it. Of course with the all-important exception that you have absolute control over the digital file on disc.

So bottom line to me it's really mostly all about control vs. no control, rather than being about physical vs. digital. Collectors and physical lovers are used to being in full control over their purchased content, so to take that away or diminish, well it's like getting demoted at work. It sucks.

 

[cinerama10]

I don't think that ownership of a physical object means anything. Immediate access to what you want when you want it s what counts, and streaming hasn't truly delivered on that yet. It's close, and it could be done, but they still expire titles and throttle connections in peak hours.

You may be able to buy a legitimate film on bluray but you never own the film - only the right to watch it. when you like. The copyright owners of the film are the true owners. They can also stop you from importing the disc into your country if they so wish. How many times have you ordered from Amazon and the distributor will not let you import the dvd or bluray. Some countries ,Australia included, will not allow parallel importing of a film if another distributor has the rights..This is why dvds and blurays are expensive in Australia compared with the rest of the world. It is also why we have such limited choices available locally. Luckily this law is seldom policed or we would never be able to shop overseas for dvds and blurays. Hard to believe but it is true.

 

[bruceames]

How many times have you ordered from Amazon and the distributor will not let you import the dvd or bluray. Some countries ,Australia included, will not allow parallel importing of a film if another distributor has the rights..This is why dvds and blurays are expensive in Australia compared with the rest of the world. It is also why we have such limited choices available locally. Luckily this law is seldom policed or we would never be able to shop overseas for dvds and blurays. Hard to believe but it is true.

What are you talking about? There are no restrictions to importing from Amazon if you buy directly from them. The restrictions you're talking about are 3rd party sellers, most of which will not ship internationally. That's their choice, and has nothing to do with the movie's distributor.

 

[jcroy]

These days, if a movie I want to see isn't available on Blu-ray, but there's an HD transfer available via iTunes/Amazon/Netflix, etc., I won't buy the DVD anymore, I'll watch the HD stream. A few years ago, I never would have imagined that. Content created in a high-resolution format (either HD or film which could be transferred to HD) I won't pay to buy on DVD anymore. I won't go with an inferior resolution quality simply to get the item on a physical disc.

For me, it depends on what mood I'm in and the price.

(As a recent example).

Lately I've been watching a lot of crappy god-awful movies produced by the bottom-feeder studio "The Asylum". I'll pick up such awful movies from the $1 dvd bins at dollar stores, instead of watching the hd versions via download/streaming.

 

[Bryan^H]

Actually, I'm more concerned about the hardware. I noticed a disturbing trend lately in a few retail walk in stores(not online). The Blu-Ray players in stock are all smaller, cheaper model than previous years. Sony, and Samsung, and LG all have very small very basic models with the high cost being right around $100. They look cheap, and probably perform the same.

I know you can get high quality Blu-Ray players without a problem online so I'm not too worried yet, but I seem to remember well before the launch of Blu-Ray, that dvd players across the board turned from nice, quality aesthetically pleasing units to small cheap little things from all the well known manufacturers, that have a life span half of what the first dvd players had(Last time I checked my first Toshiba dvd player($300 in 1998) I gave my friend is still functioning well.
Blu-Ray from Sony in 2014:

and from 2009:

I sure don't want a Blu-Ray player from Sony on my shelf that is 8" wide, and has 12 buttons on the remote. The simplicity to me is the first sign of losing interest and sacrificing progression for low cost machines that aren't very good.

I may start buying many 3-D high end players if I notice them drying up. And I will stay alert on this matter. Paranoid...maybe, but like the old adage says "It's better to be safe than sorry".

 

[Persianimmortal]

I've discussed the future of Blu-ray many times, so I'm not going to rehash my arguments in yet another thread. I guess this post I made at the start of the year best summarizes my arguments, along with data.

However, Bryan raises an interesting point above regarding recent developments in Blu-ray players. I find it particularly relevant, as I was shopping for a new player a few months ago and ran into exactly the issues he notes: the key manufacturers are stripping down their players, removing numerous useful features and connectivity in order to make their players viable. The mid-range Panasonic models (e.g. BDT230, BDT330) I looked at for example not only removed useful features (even things like Super Resolution, a basic form of DVD sharpening), they now also display advertising at startup and in the player menus!

I went to find the top-of-the-range Panasonic and Sony BD players, and they aren't even available in Australia. The Panasonic BDT500 (which, by the way, is a 2012 model which Panasonic has not yet refreshed) was never released for sale in Australia, and the Sony BDPS790 was released here briefly in 2012 but is now completely out of stock everywhere. The point being that in smaller markets like Australia, it's obvious that a lack of demand for Blu-ray means these companies can see absolutely no reason to even release their high-end players. And I would hesitate to call their mid-range releases true "mid-range", because they're specced more like entry models compared to previous years.

Furthermore, all of the players now tout all manner of Internet-connected features, making them more like media boxes than physical disc players. I think it's pretty clear where media is headed. The majority of consumers seem to place a clear preference for convenience above quality, so the manufacturers are following suit. Little wonder then that Sony is struggling in the BD arena. Let's just be happy that we're still getting good release on Blu, because I think HD material on physical media is an endangered species.

 

[schan1269]

Shocking Australia gets the "CE short stick"...In cars, you get cooler stuff than the US does.Ford was going to try and keep Mercury by importing the larger Australian cars with the Kuga from Europe.That thought died...so did Mercury.Increased convenience for the mainstream is costing "the purists" in choices.DVD/BDStick shiftCast iron pans(some places are banning B&M sales)When is the mainstream going to stop sucking the life...out of life?

 

[jcroy]

Blu-Ray from Sony in 2014:

br2.jpg

Is that usb port for reading video and/or audio files from a flash drive?

Or is that usb port only for firmware upgrades via a flash drive?

 

[Thomas T]

First off, I am generalizing and, of course, there are exceptions to every rule. Having said that:

It's clear that physical media's days are numbered. I suspect that most of use here are in the over 40 category. The young people of today have little interest in physical media. My two nephews (both in their early 30s and married) don't even own a DVD player! Cable, video on demand, downloading and streaming is just fine by them. They're perfectly content watching movies via netflix, youtube or even, Lord help us, on their ipads. When they come over and see the (4,000 plus) DVDs lining the walls of my apartment, they just roll their eyes and sigh, "What are we going to do with this junk when you're gone?"... LOL.

I'm 62 and how long do I have left? My mother died at age 83 so if I live as long as her, I have 21 years to go. I suspect dvd/blu will have bit the dust before I go. Oh sure, there will be a small niche market but as I mentioned above, it appears to be a generational thing. How many 28 year old males do you know that are pining for a Betty Grable or Tyrone Power blu ray box set?

As we baby boomers hobble into he sunset, we take our collections with us. Only recently a friend attempted to donate his DVD collection to a local library and they didn't want it!

Honestly, if I were 21 years old today ..... I'd take a pass on physical media too.

 

[Persianimmortal]

Shocking Australia gets the "CE short stick"...In cars, you get cooler stuff than the US does.Ford was going to try and keep Mercury by importing the larger Australian cars with the Kuga from Europe.That thought died...so did Mercury.Increased convenience for the mainstream is costing "the purists" in choices.DVD/BDStick shiftCast iron pans(some places are banning B&M sales)When is the mainstream going to stop sucking the life...out of life?

Not to drift the thread too far off course, but just quickly - we've always been shafted in Australia when it comes to consumer electronics, and a whole range of other areas, mainly on price. We literally pay double the price for the same products (even after adjusting for exchange rates). You mention our cars in particular, and they are woefully overpriced and underoptioned. Our local car industry is now officially dead, and is being phased out. I remember when Australia first started exporting our Holden Commodores to the US as Pontiac GTOs, they had to option them above the highest option level in Australia, and price them lower than we pay locally, just to have a chance in your market.

But yes, you know things are bad for Blu-ray when mainstream manufacturers just look at an entire market and say "screw it, we won't even bother with releasing our high-end range there". To my knowledge, this is the first time I've seen the top end players completely deleted from our market - they've always been available, even if it is at absurd prices.

Honestly, if I were 21 years old today ..... I'd take a pass on physical media too.

Whenever I talk about movies or TV shows with people in that age group today, they frequently refer to having seen an episode or a movie that hasn't even been released in Australia yet - which indicates clearly that they are pirating said media. Now without opening up a can of worms which breach forum rules, let's set aside the morality of piracy, and we can see that younger people are being raised almost exclusively on downloaded media files and YouTube videos. In fact, when I read discussions on mainstream forums regarding new HDTVs or players, without fail I see a lot of people asking about which media file formats said TV or player accepts. And the TVs and players themselves seem to keep adding more and more formats to their compatibility lists. Again, this can only point to ubiquitous use of media files and media streaming.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Whenever I talk about movies or TV shows with people in that age group today, they frequently refer to having seen an episode or a movie that hasn't even been released in Australia yet - which indicates clearly that they are pirating said media. Now without opening up a can of worms which breach forum rules, let's set aside the morality of piracy, and we can see that younger people are being raised almost exclusively on downloaded media files and YouTube videos. In fact, when I read discussions on mainstream forums regarding new HDTVs or players, without fail I see a lot of people asking about which media file formats said TV or player accepts. And the TVs and players themselves seem to keep adding more and more formats to their compatibility lists. Again, this can only point to ubiquitous use of media files and media streaming.

Exactly.

I'm 31 but I'm in the minority of my age group in being a big physical media collector -- but I started collecting VHS and records when I was practically an infant, so it's basically in my DNA at this point. So many of the people that are coworkers, younger friends, etc., have no use for a collection like mine. (No need for me to retread all of my points from a little bit earlier in the thread.)

Without condoning or agreeing with it, I understand how someone could feel that downloading a show that aired for free in one area, but not in their own neighborhood, might not feel like stealing. If the rest of the world got to see it for free last Thursday, and the technology allows the end user to retrieve it that easily, I can see how it doesn't feel wrong to some. I wonder if we might be on our way to more universal worldwide distribution. We've already come so far with theatrical releases, for instance -- mere decades ago, movies first opened in larger cities, and then came out to the suburbs weeks or months after the original opening date. Now, movies open simultaneously across the country. For some movies it's worldwide. And for the hardcore fans of this content, it's already being discussed on the internet the second it hits, so the connectivity of the internet is adding an urgency to needing to see a certain show or movie right away. The distribution models will need to be adjusted to accomodate that, because I think we're finally at an age where, if it's easier to download it illegally for free than to get it legally, that's what people are gonna do. I live in the US and for most things, we seem to get them first (or if not immediately, very shortly after something is released elsewhere).. but if I lived in an area where things didn't reach us theatrically before they reached DVD/Blu-ray everywhere else, that might present me with some hard questions. If there was a show I liked that aired here a year after it premiered in its home country, that might present me with some ethical dilemmas.

It's a new wild, wild west out there.. it would be great for content producers could find a way to leverage the internet so that it didn't matter if only a small number of people in a particular territory liked a certain show or movie, but that the total worldwide interest would be enough to keep a show on the air or a movie in print.

 

[Brandon Conway]

I'm 35 and an avid collector, but most of my peers - who mostly work in the home video industry - have little interest in large collections.For the most part I have every title I want on at least DVD, and at this point the majority on Blu-ray, so I feel pretty good about it all from a personal collection standpoint. I can't worry too much about years from now. As long as my players survive (PS3, PS4, Panasonic 60) and my discs stay safe I'm good. Who knows where we'll be in ten years, but I can't panic too much about it since it's all a luxury anyway.Sent from my VS920 4G using Tapatalk

 

[Bryan^H]

Furthermore, all of the players now tout all manner of Internet-connected features, making them more like media boxes than physical disc players. I think it's pretty clear where media is headed. The majority of consumers seem to place a clear preference for convenience above quality, so the manufacturers are following suit. Little wonder then that Sony is struggling in the BD arena. Let's just be happy that we're still getting good release on Blu, because I think HD material on physical media is an endangered species.

That is something I forgot to mention but noticed also. The boxes of all the Blu-Ray players I looked at focused more on the streaming pack ins for the players and actual features of the unit itself were secondary.My boss had me over his house to help him hook up his home theater setup about a month ago. After the awe subsided from the beautiful views of the lake from his living room, I noticed he had made some good choices of hardware. One thing stood out however, the Blu-Ray player. He said "I bought the best one they had"(Best Buy). It was a Sony, it was ugly, and the remote was uninspired. I thought he was misled, but after doing research myself, he was absolutely right. It was the best one they carried, and it was a far cry from the feature heavy units from just a couple years ago. It was a little bigger than a large IPad.I will hate to see the players a couple years from now, if they are still being manufactured.
Is Oppo the last line of defense for a high quality Blu-Ray player?

 

[bluelaughaminute]

You may be able to buy a legitimate film on bluray but you never own the film - only the right to watch it. when you like. The copyright owners of the film are the true owners. They can also stop you from importing the disc into your country if they so wish. How many times have you ordered from Amazon and the distributor will not let you import the dvd or bluray. Some countries ,Australia included, will not allow parallel importing of a film if another distributor has the rights..This is why dvds and blurays are expensive in Australia compared with the rest of the world. It is also why we have such limited choices available locally. Luckily this law is seldom policed or we would never be able to shop overseas for dvds and blurays. Hard to believe but it is true.

"The copyright owners of the film are the true owners".
No they're not . If they came up to my front door and asked for my disc of their film I'd tell them where to go.
I've been ordering Blurays and dvd's from all over the world for well over a decade and I've never been told I can't import it ( except when individual sellers won't post to the UK) - probably because the distributor can actually do nothing to stop you from doing it Amazon et all from selling it.

I have plenty of dvd's and Blurays from Australia and they were no more expensive than elsewhere.
In fact my last 3 purchases in a single deal were amongst the cheapest I've ever paid for a new release Bluray and that included shipping to the UK.

My 2007 Panasonic player was twice the depth of my current 2012 model. I don't see any features missing although neither are top of the range models.
But the newer one has no EJECT button on the remote so I actually had to get that from another remote control when setting up my Logitech Harmony One

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I'm 35 and an avid collector, but most of my peers - who mostly work in the home video industry - have little interest in large collections.

As more of an existential aside: If the people who work at home video aren't even that interested in home video, how can the studios hope the rest of us will be?

 

[bluelaughaminute]

As more of an existential aside: If the people who work at home video aren't even that interested in home video, how can the studios hope the rest of us will be?

Because , like most jobs , if you work in it you don't want to take it home with you .
Most people who work in factories packing chocolate bars can't stand to eat the stuff outside work

 

[Josh Steinberg]

"The copyright owners of the film are the true owners".
No they're not . If they came up to my front door and asked for my disc of their film I'd tell them where to go.

It may be true that you own the physical disc, but the copyright ownership is retained by the studios or whichever entity that controls the film. You've purchased a license to view that specific film on that specific disc in the privacy of your home, for non-commercial exhibition only. If you tried to show one of your discs as a public performance, they would be well within their rights to shut you down. I'm not saying that having a physical copy is meaningless, quite the opposite -- having a physical copy is the only way we have to ensure that when the rights change hand or something goes out of print, that it's still accessible to us. But accessibility isn't the same as ownership.

I'm all for disc ownership, but we don't own the movies. And movie theaters don't own the film prints or digital copies they show either. (Lucasfilm, for example, has been known to confiscate film prints of the original versions of the Star Wars trilogy when people have tried to screen them publiclly. The person who brought the print might have thought he owned it, but even if he bought it on the black market or at auction, the original terms of the release would most likely have had the print belonging to the movie studio in perpetuity.)

Though it would probably be more trouble than its worth and a PR nightmare, I wonder if studios have thought about locking down Blu-ray discs (or whatever is next), in such a way that they could take viewing privileges away from you? Isn't that one of the things with the new PS4 or Xbox that came out where certain games will only work on the machine of the person who bought and registered the disc, and then will not work on another player? Using the internet connectivity features built into most Blu-ray players, I wonder if the technology exists for a studio to send out an update that would essentially make certain discs unplayable?

 

[Bryan^H]

My 2007 Panasonic player was twice the depth of my current 2012 model. I don't see any features missing although neither are top of the range models.
But the newer one has no EJECT button on the remote so I actually had to get that from another remote control when setting up my Logitech Harmony One

The current models notable features are Wi-Fi streaming, heavy on connectivity from other sources. 4K upscaling is a plus.

No eject on the remote? That sucks.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

But the newer one has no EJECT button on the remote so I actually had to get that from another remote control when setting up my Logitech Harmony One

How do they expect you to remove the disc if you don't have a fancy, purchased separately remote? Wow.

I gotta say, as much as I love Blu-ray as a whole, there are some real head-scratchers built into the technology. That there are tons of discs that are impossible to stop and then resume where you left off is mind-boggling to me -- when I got my first Blu-ray player, I never imagined that in some aspects, it would be less functional than VHS!

 

[Bryan^H]

Isn't that one of the things with the new PS4 or Xbox that came out where certain games will only work on the machine of the person who bought and registered the disc, and then will not work on another player? Using the internet connectivity features built into most Blu-ray players, I wonder if the technology exists for a studio to send out an update that would essentially make certain discs unplayable?

Xbox One overturned that decision, after much public outcry.
Updates could render any disc unplayable if they so wished. Scary.

Owning the PS4, it is my opinion that it is designed for streaming over software. The Blu-Ray player on the PS3 in intuitive, and great, the PS4 is clunky, and archaic. This is not by accident, that is a conscious choice from the development team. 500GB and they are constantly making it easier, to download games. Convenience.