New 'secrets' benchmark up!

Discussion in 'Playback Devices' started by NickSo, Jun 25, 2004.

  1. NickSo

    NickSo Producer

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  2. greg_t

    greg_t Screenwriter

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    Not too bad. What is too bad is that according to secrets it "has a lot of issues in it's core performance".
     
  3. Don_Berg

    Don_Berg Supporting Actor

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    The Secrets tests quantifies well the problems with the Zenith model including major pixel cropping and Y/C delay issues - the latter is the cause for the reports of color-bleeding. The excellent Panasonic XP30 and RP82 are still top-rated, well above the Zenith without any of those core issues. I'm sticking with my XP30 and now others can see why!
     
  4. DaveGTP

    DaveGTP Cinematographer

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    My CP72 was only an 83 anyway, and failed in the same basic areas (Y/C delay and 2-2 film flags). Yay for the Zenith!

    I do hate the cropping on the right side. I hope perhaps this is fixed in a firmware update.

    Good to see a nice comprehensive test. That's the kind of reviews I like to read. Scientific, objective testing. [​IMG]

    I notice the 73 rating for component says 480P/720P? Is that the component rating for the lower rez?
     
  5. NickSo

    NickSo Producer

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    Keep in mind, there's no Y/C delay at 1080i, which is the resolution most users are using.
     
  6. Steve Schaffer

    Steve Schaffer Producer

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    It also far outperformed the $1799 ArCam! For any parameter applicable to me the Zenith does just fine. A lousy 3 percent worse than my CP-72 doesn't begin to negate the overall improvement in picture quality over the Panny, not to mention the excellent handling of non-anamorphic widescreen which made many of my dvds almost totally unwatchable on the top rated Panasonic.
     
  7. Steve Schaffer

    Steve Schaffer Producer

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    My much-loved for 4/3 pillarboxing JVC only scored a 59!

    I think it's kinda important to really understand what all the parameters they test really mean and decide whether they outweigh some other benefits a given player may have.
    That JVC does show combing on transitions between video and film based stuff, and you have to force it into film mode for Titanic, which problems I never see on the Zenith or the Panasonic CP-72, but for the vast majority of my movies it really has excellent picture quality and I love not having gray bars for 4/3 stuff.

    What I really need is a good component video switcher so I can use all 3 players!
     
  8. Don_Berg

    Don_Berg Supporting Actor

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    I applaud Secrets for testing with 480p mode, since thats required for 4:3 titles - its unrealistic to expect using 1080i mode only. Regardless the pixel cropping problem is in 1080i mode too. I used to have a JVC too, but my XP30's picture quality blew it away so I agreed with their respective ratings. It would be great if somebody could combine all the positive features from these players and eliminate the negatives, but until then for me the XP30 still has the best combination of most positives and least negatives and great picture quality. Zenith would have to fix their model's defects before I would look at it.
     
  9. Steve Schaffer

    Steve Schaffer Producer

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    5ns of Y/C delay at 1080i over component vs 10ns at 480p for my CP-72 (I looked it up), not too bad.

    From what I could glean they didn't post a score for 1080i on component, just an overall dvi score and scores for 480p/720p on component, but they did do a pretty good evaluation of 1080i component output in the text of the report. 15 pixels cropped gets eaten up by overscan on my set anyway, might be more of a problem for fixed pixel FPs.

    Edit: found this at another forum:

    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/print...postid=3982784



    The frequency chart shows a tiny bit less rolloff at higher video frequencies than my CP-72, probaly accounts for the bit better results from the AVIA resolution pattern.

    It didn't do that badly, certainly better than the other upconverting players and all the other players that can scale non-anamorphic widescreen.
     
  10. dpippel

    dpippel HTF Premium Member
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    Good Lord man, we don't CARE. If you don't own a DVB318 and aren't interested in owning a DVB318 then why do you continue posting in threads related to this player?!? It's thread crapping plain and simple. Move on. Everyone knows you'll never give up your beloved XP30. We're happy for you. Now for cryin' out loud, give it a rest. PLEASE. [​IMG]
     
  11. greg_t

    greg_t Screenwriter

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  12. Don_Berg

    Don_Berg Supporting Actor

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    15 pixels cropped off is quite a lot and I believe it adds to any cropping due to a TV's overscan, so its not hidden. The Secrets tests are valuable to compare the Zenith with other models for making an intelligent decision, since most don't have the equipment to do all the necessary detailed tests themselves - I applaud them for their great efforts and making this info available to all of us. I completely agree with their ratings.
     
  13. brentl

    brentl Cinematographer

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    "since most don't have the equipment to do all the necessary detailed tests themselves" true enough, and most people don't care about many of the things they test for.

    That said, since I own a FP that doesn't lock and an Lg7832 and also because I want something WITh a warranty this is a fantastic bargain!

    Is it close to perfection? I guess not, I think it looks great and that's alll that matters.

    Yep, that Camaro is better in every way than my Mustang but I still love my Mustang!!

    P.s. I own a Civic, I'm just giving an idea of where I'm coming from.
     
  14. Warner

    Warner Agent

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    Your picture is either centered or not centered. If your overscan is 4%, it's 4%. If it's 5%, it's 5%. One of the first things I did after hooking up the LG/Zenith player to my RPTV, was center the image and adjust overscan to my liking, which is about 4.5%. The player could crop 0 or 20 pixels, I don't care, my picture remains centered, and my overscan remains 4.5%.

    Honestly, I've never before come across anyone on-line that can be so irritating. I seriously wonder what kind of person would spend so much time reading and posting about a player he does not own or like, when he could be watching a top-rated film on his top-rated player instead. Thank God the interaction is merely on-line.
     
  15. James W. Johnson

    James W. Johnson Screenwriter

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    You could not possibly completely agree with their ratings unless you have also tried every player they have rated.


    One thing is for sure though, its only one set of ratings...the Secrets testing should be taken with a grain of salt IMO.

    I have personally owned the Secrets top rated Denon DVD-1600 and its nice but IMO easily as nice as the lower rated Panasonic RP-62 (which I also had BTW) but neither of those units look as nice as my current Denon DVD-2200.
     
  16. Jon_Welker

    Jon_Welker Second Unit

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    Couldn't agree with you more. Whoop-D-Doo, new rankings on Secrets...
     
  17. Brian L

    Brian L Cinematographer

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    Please post a link to any other site anywhere that conducts as thorough a set of player evaluations as Secrets.

    And 100% subjective evaluations don't count.

    You may or may not like what they have to say (I own a Pio 45a, which was DFL for a long, long time, so I know from whence I speak), but there is no other site like it that I know of.

    BGL
     
  18. James W. Johnson

    James W. Johnson Screenwriter

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    I am not denying that they are about the only ones conducting this type of testing....perhaps this is why so much weight is given in their Shootout.


    I did not say I did not agree with the testing , I simply stated that its only one review.
    Most of the players were loaned from different people/sources so they only had one example of each in most case.

    Myself , if I was going to buy a player based on a review it would be based on a few subjective ones anyways.
     
  19. DaveGTP

    DaveGTP Cinematographer

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    I'm in 100% agreement with Brian L. A very good but concise way to put it. You may not like what the Secrets tests tell you, but they are comprehensive and scientific.

    I give absolutely only a small amount of credence to individual reviews of hardware. Over and over again, pyschological methodology has shown that people are failable. It's good to say "the PQ is awesome", but that doesn't really tell me anything. Many have reported the cheap $30 progressive players as "awesome".

    It's better to say "the player properly handles bad edits and other misflagging problems" and "has uniform frequency response", and tell me about other scientific tests I can't readily do myself (like white and black level measurements).


    I hope they fix the overscan issue via a firmware upgrade or something. It's pretty noticeable.
     
  20. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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    I think what James is trying tell you that, Secrets focuses on some issues that many people don't or can't,based on their other equipments,and "expertise".It's not that isn't useful,it just maybe not on the top their priority list.
     

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