Need updated advice on current technologies (1 Viewer)

[gene c]

I'm sure your 708 and Panasonic BDT110, when connected with an hdmi cable, will give you TrueHD and Master Audio and HD video.. Video isn't my strong point but if you use an hdmi to DVI cable from the 708 to the Sony HDTV then you should get HD video on your older display as well. You may have to change the output resolution of the BR player and satillite receiver to match that of the display which is probably 720P/1080i. Audio jacks aren't necessary if you don't want to use the tv's speakers.

 

[raverell]

Let's talk about home theater surround speakers for a minute. I have always had two front, the center, two rear, and a subwoofer. Today, as in the 708 manual, I see systems with 11 speakers setup with them. I must admit some ignorance on this subject and would like to find out more about it. There's no way I would even have room for 11 speakers in a system, but I could add 2 to one of my systems. The second system, I should explain, has no speaker flexibility because the speakers were mounted in the ceiling by the homebuilder. Certainly they're not great speakers, but they're not horrible either. One issue I haven't been able to address is that it has a passive subwoofer in the wall, and I have not been able to find an amplifier small enough to power it, so it remains unpowered. Can you tell me where I might find an amp for that sub? Then on the idea of adding two speakers to the other system, which has MUCH better speakers, can you explain how that works, what would come out of those speakers, how they could be used and recommendations for the speaker types they should be? Much appreciated.

 

[gene c]

The two other speakers would be the Surround-Backs in a 7.1. In this configuration the Surround speakers would actually go directly to the sides of the listening position and the Surround-Backs would go behin it. Here's a link to Dolby's speaker positioning. There's also a new thing called Dolby PLIIz (or Front Heigth) which adds a couple of speakers in-between the front speakers and quite a bit higher. Yamaha uses something similar called 'Presence "speakers. http://www.dolby.com/consumer/setup/speaker-setup-guide/index.html Partsexpress.com has a few sub amps but they are probably more expensive than you'ld want to pay. http://www.parts-express.com/wizards/searchResults.cfm?srchExt=CAT&srchCat=505&CFID=26285283&CFTOKEN=98279267 If you have one of your old receivers left over you could use it to power the passive amp. Hook the Sub-Out (RCA connection) from the receiver that's used to power the other speakers to the CD Left (white) input on the back of the older un-used receiver (the 6030 maybe) and connect the speaker wire to the Front Left speaker output on the 6030 and to the back of the passive subwoofer. Then select the CD input on the 6030, turn it on and thump-thump! You could also use any mono amp or one channel of a stereo amp. Maybe you could score one cheap on CL or ebay. By the way, we're not very fond of in-ceiling speakers or passive subwoofers around here. But hey, if it's what you've already got....

 

[raverell]

No, I'm not fond of them at all and ordinarily would never use them. However, the design of this house is such that there truly isn't room for floor speakers or speakers on stands, etc. You would have to see it to understand it I guess, but I really had no option but to have the speakers built into the ceiling, and the sub in the wall. Which means, I don't have access to hooking up speaker wires to the sub because its on the other side of the room, and who knows where the wiring was run by the installer (through top of ceiling, behind wall). All of the wiring for all the equipment comes through the rear of alcoves designed to accommodate a home theater system. And they were about 5" long, so I had to add extensions to all the wires, then connect them to the equipment. This is the system with the Toshiba 42" 1080p. With the system in my bedroom, a much better system in every way, I have all the flexibility needed to add a set of speakers. However, this is where the Sony 46" 1080i is, but has the DVI terminal on the back panel. Can't spring for a new TV for the bedroom right now but it will be interesting to see how much difference that DVI makes should I decide to put the 708 there. Which brings me to another point. I'm not completely decided on which system I will place the 708. Its a much better fit equipment wise in the bedroom, but is more needed in the living room as far as making the speakers sound better with EQ. Also, I have an old Dynaco amp and pre-amp that I used for years, which I built, was very happy with for many years, and I'll bet it would work beautifully still to power the sub. Problem is, there literally is no room for it. With the additional equipment I have coming, there will be no more room in the alcoves for anything. Remember, I have that Sony 5 disc changer on the way too, and actually have not decided which system to connect that to either. I intended it to be used to play multiple audio CDs when I'm busy doing things around the house, but having said that, it doesn't make the decision any more clear. Maybe I could find a small table or stand of some kind and put the Dynaco amp on it off to the side of the alcoves which would put it in front, but well to the side of a set of sliding doors. Good thing is, the side where it would go is not the side that opens to the patio. But then I'd have the sub connection wire to deal with, and I'm not going to just run it along the wall to the back of the receiver. Boy, this is getting complicated, huh? One more issue. I used to have all the cabling tied off and labeled, and right now the cabling is a mess on both systems. Those old, notched ties that used to come with trash bags would work OK, but I looked at every box of trash bags in the supermarket yesterday, and none of them have that type of tie in them anymore. There has to be a place that offers such an animal, right? What do you think of the Dynaco idea?

 

[raverell]

Wire securing problem solved on Parts Express. They have a bunch of them so I'll definitely get some from them. On the Dynaco amp idea, it occurred to me after I posted that the amp has no volume control, that comes from the pre-amp. So, I guess I would have to stick them both out there which is kind of ridiculous just to power a sub. Parts Express also had some panel sub amps that are interesting but a little more than I'd like to pay.

 

[gene c]

I don't think DVI will make any real difference in the video quality since it's basically HDMI without the audio capability. Only thing is you would need to run a separate audio connection to the tv (from the satillite receiver or BR player) if you wanted to watch tv/movie through the tv's speakers. I also have two systems and never use the tv's speakers in either one of them. But some people like to watch things like the news without having to turn on the whole system. I don't. You don't need a volume control on the subwoofer amp. You should be able to use the volume controls (both the master volume control and the individual trim level setting) on the receiver. In fact, some less-expensive powered subs, and some from those in a speaker subwoofer package, don't have volume controls either. As for in-ceiling speakers, it's not that they don't sound as good as others (which they usually don't , it that they're up there, in the ceiling. I'm not sure how much the 708's eq can help with that. Maybe a little maybe a lot. Maybe not at all. I would put the 708 in your best system. In fact, I would try and put all the best stuff in one room, the 1080P Toshiba, the better speakers and the 708, hopefully the room that's used the most. But I would put the 708 in the room that has the best speakers. But my better system is in my "music/movie" room. My "everyday" room is for mostly watching regular tv and the occasional dvd. It looks to me that one of your biggest decisions isn't what to buy but where to put it. Just so you know where I'm coming from: Movie/music room: 65" Toshiba rptv, Marantz 7002 receiver, Marantz 8002 BR player, Marantz 6-disk VC-6001 universal dvd player, Dish Network HD, Swan 5.1 front tower speakers, Swan C3 center and Swan 2.1's as surrounds, 2 of the original Dayton 10" subwoofers. Everyday room: Panasonic 58" Plasma, Harman Kardon 7200 receiver (8 years old), OPPO 83 universal BR player, Infinity Beta 20 bookshelves for fronts, Beta 250 center and Infinty OWS-1's for surrounds, Dayton/HSU 10" sub (pretty much the same as the 10" Allison from PE).

 

[raverell]

Well sir those are a couple of sweet setups. And you make good points about how much or how little the 780 will make with the in-ceiling speakers. I just bought a pair of Polk Audio Monitor 30 from Polk's eBay store for $89.99. Ya can't beat that! So that will fill out my bedroom system very nicely. Well, I think I've got to sign off for the day and get some chow. As always, thanks for your input.

 

[raverell]

HI GENE: Haven't heard from me in awhile and as you may guess, all of my new purchases have arrived and I have been spending an inordinate amount of time (trust me) trying to make the connections, the proper inputs, cables, install new banana plugs, you name it. Just to summarize, in the last couple of weeks, I have added DIRECTV DVR, Blu ray player with a LAN adapter, Onkyo receiver, Sony 5 disc changer, Polk surround speakers, a Harmony remote and tried to reconfigure 2 systems, including one where you must feed all relevant cables up the wall, behind the drywall, and hope you are able to pull it through at the other end. I gave you a list of components and speakers in a prior post, but here is what I've done with them: Yamaha A/V Receiver - removed from living room system and replaced with the Sony receiver previously in my bedroom. Yamaha 5 disc changer - removed from Living Room system and will be trashed. It has been replaced by the Sony 5 disc changer. Blu ray player moved to bedroom system, at your suggestion. Onkyo receiver is the guts of the bedroom system, with the much better speakers than the living room, which are in-ceiling speakers. Panasonic DVD player moved to living room system. This was sitting in my closet and I actually forgot I had it. Toshiba DVD/DVR remains with the bedroom system. I do have issues, problems and questions about a variety of subjects. I think I will wait until tomorrow to post a thread to you to go into those. As always, Best Regards, Rich

 

[raverell]

As it turns out, I was able to solve a few problems last night and early this morning. I was having alot of trouble with the Harmony 700 remote. It wouldn't turn the Onkyo receiver off, and I couldn't turn it off manually or with the Onkyo remote. So, I was back and forth to the computer, making changes to the Harmony, then taking it to the system and none of the changes I made worked. This is the second time this has happened. The answer was to fully charge the Harmony and then magically this morning, everything worked as it should. I did get the DVI HDMI adapter and attached the DVI end to the back of the Sony 1080i, but can you tell me where the other end, the HDMI plug, gets connected? I have checked all the owners manuals and none of them discuss it. If I connect it to the HDMI jack for CBL/SAT, am I limiting its application only to that input? Where would I attach it to apply to all the attached components? The Onkyo manual does not address this. Also, there is an HDMI Monitor Out jack on the back of the Onkyo. Again, the manual does not address what this is used for. Can you explain? I also ran the Audyssey MultEQ setup and frankly I am disappointed. The result is that the sound is louder out of the right speakers, and it sounded better before I applied the EQ. Is there something else I have to do such as do some tweaking of each individual speaker?

 

[gene c]

"If I connect it to the HDMI jack for CBL/SAT, am I limiting its application only to that input? Where would I attach it to apply to all the attached components? The Onkyo manual does not address this." Yes, that would only work for that inpt. Connect it to the HDMI Monitor Out jack. Then, any video component hooked up to the Onkyo should be sent to the display. Sometimes a little tweaking is needed after running these auto setup programs but the volume levels are usually pretty accurate. I'd try it again. Also, you must do things exactly as instructed for it to work properly. Fellow member David Willow has a link to an Audessey setup guild in his signature but it doesn't appear to be working (acually, it seems to take quite awhile to load. Be patient!). http://www.willowville.net/ht/Audyssey%20Setup%20Guide.pdf But I prefer to set things up myself.

 

[raverell]

My thanks for the link to the Audyssey setup guide. While I did adhere to most of the advice in there, there were other points not made in the Onkyo manual for setting it up. I am going to run it again. Lots of trouble with my Harmony remote, specifically turning off the Onkyo receiver when it should. I have been in and out of the Harmony online software more times than I care to admit. The problem has happened 3 times now, where the remote will not only not shut off the Onkyo, none of the Harmony commands work, and that means including volume control. As I mentioned, a full charge on the batteries fixed it one time. Can't remember what fixed it the first time. I know something is changed each time I go into the software and make changes that then corrects the remote's functions. This last time, and I am now in the 3rd day of it not working, I am certain that I used the sleep timer on the Onkyo, playing blues music until I fall asleep. Next morning, the remote doesn't work. I am pretty sure it was the same case the second time it happened. But I made so many changes in the software, I don't know which one corrected the remote. Believe me, it is set up right. And giving the remote a full charge made no difference in this last case. BTW, I think I may have a bum set of batteries since Logitech says a full charge should last about 30 days. No way am I getting that; more like every 3 days. Any wisdom you can share? Many thanks. Rich

 

[gene c]

Sorry to hear you're having so much trouble with the Harmony. Very unusual. I'm not sure how it would handle the sleep timer (seems to me it would throw things off track) but I'm sure they they must have considered it. The Harmony 880 I used with an Outlaw 990 pre-amp worked perfectly for me but I didn't have the 990's original remote so when I sold it the Harmony went with it. And they're right about the battery lasting a long time. The 990/Harmony 880 was in my livingroom where it sometimes wasn't used for long periods at a time* and even when I forgot to put the 880 in the charger it still worked after a week or two. Have you contacted Harmony's Customer Service? Maybe they can help. This stuff is supposed to be enjoyable and if the Harmony simply isn't working for you then maybe you should think about returning it if you still can. I bought one for my brother (forget the model number ) and I don't think he uses it much, if at all. Doesn't seem to be so compatible with his AT&T U-Verse (which is another problem all together). I like to buy all my components from the same brand (receiver, dvd player, bluray player, cd player) so I just use the receivers remote to operate everything except the Dish Network receivers (including turning the display on and off). This works very well with my Pioneer equipment, not so well with the Marantz stuff but since I'm single (no wife/kids to get confused and mess things up or lose/mis-place the remotes ) I just keep all the Marantz remotes handy. But I have been thinking about getting another Harmony. * I buy and sell a few receivers/players off ebay/craigslist/Audiogon occasionally just for fun and use the livingroom setup to evaluate them and make sure they work as they should so the Outlaw (and now Marantz) system was often not in use for long periods of time. But the Harmony always resonded when picked up. Maybe yours is somewhat defective? Wish I could be of more help but my knowledge of Harmony remotes is very limited. Mine worked fine so I never had to diagnose any problems.

 

[Robert_J]

I'm with Gene about the sleep timer throwing off the Harmony. That's the one drawback that these remotes have - if they get out of synch with the equipment, it is a pain to get them corrected. I just manually turn everything off that is supposed to be off and power on like I would when come home from work.

 

[raverell]

When this situation occurs, it renders the Onkyo remote completely useless, meaning I can't turn it off using the remote or physically pushing the power off button on the front of the receiver. Already decided I am returning the remote, and I bought a brand spankin' new one earlier this morning. Thanks much for your input on this thread.

 

[gene c]

Now that's really weird. I have no idea how the Harmony could physically affect the Onkyo or it's remote. Let us know how all this pans out.

 

[raverell]

Yeah, its really weird isn't it? Well guys, I have made a rash decision and decided to delete the Onkyo from the Devices list on the Harmony software. I am tired of not being able to control anything, change the volume (not even on the volume control on the Onkyo; nothing works), and having to bend behind the system rack and unplug the Onkyo every time I want to turn it off. Enough already.

 

[raverell]

Unbelievably, I removed the Onkyo from the Devices list on the Harmony software, and it made absolutely no difference. Still can't operate the Onkyo with its remote, still can't change the volume, still can't turn it off or on pressing the power button on the receiver itself. How is that possible? I don't know what else to do except call Logitech and have them just delete my account info. OK, did that. Hold on to your hats guys. First rep I talked to told me to open a new account with a different user id, and I asked him if that would take care of the problem. An immediate and resounding "YES." I asked him if this situation comes up often and he said yes. He was just shoveling it out bigtime. So, I asked him to just delete my account at Logitech so I can regain control of my system. Can't be done. Once its there, its there for good. Then he offers to transfer me to another dept. that MAY be able to help me and they won't charge me unless they can't resolve the issue. ARE YOU KIDDING? Your product has put me through this and I am supposed to pay you to fix it? Anyway, next rep had much more knowledge and told me that opening a new account won't do anything at all. He also told me he can't delete my account. Bottom line, he told me to call Onkyo. Well, I don't have that in me today. Next report tomorrow.

 

[gene c]

If all else fails try doing a Factory Reset on the Onkyo. I still can't believe the Harmony can screw with the Onkyo this way. How is that possible? Your Logitech account should'nt have any connection to your receiver or it's remote in any way. This totally confuses me .

 

[raverell]

Yeah Gene I thought about doing a reset but the Onkyo remote has to work in order to do that. There's no physical switch on the receiver itself to perform a reset either. I went through the motions of trying to do one, but it just didn't work. Well, today's news: I called Onkyo this morning and the guy I spoke to knew right away what I was talking about and said it was a hardware problem within the receiver. I asked him if other people are calling about it and he said they were, and went on to say that Onkyo issued a press release about it. The title of the press release is "Automatic Continuous Change of Listening Modes and/or Remote Controller Commands are not accepted." And the meat of the release is this: "Listening modes automatically change one after another. When this problem occurs most commands will not be accepted." I wasn't having any problem with Listening Modes automatically changing, and the release does not mention the Harmony remotes at all. So.... I was told the receiver has to be shipped back to an Authorized Repair Center, and I was given the name and number of one, I suppose that is nearest to me. Further, he said I will get an email from Onkyo in 24 to 72 hours with return authorization labels and further instructions. I wouldn't call that great customer service. Up to 3 days just to get an email? Told me it will be shipped to Adams Electronics in Orange County, who I just called and didn't exactly inspire alot of confidence. I am to include an "81/2 X 11 sheet of paper" describing the problem. It was just a young girl who answered the phone and said they have seen every kind of problem there is with Onkyo products.I explained the entire problem to her and asked her if they have heard of this and she just danced around the issue giving me the response I just described. Man oh man, when am I actually going to be able to use all this new stuff I bought and get the benefits I purchased them for???? Incredibly frustrating. I have some more questions about my in-ceiling speakers in the living room but I am going to wait until tomorrow to post about them.

 

[raverell]

Hello again. This question goes to connection of a passive subwoofer. When this house was built, the builder offered to pre-wire it for a home theater system in the living room. Due to the design of the house, I had no choice but to do that; you would have to see it to really understand. The subwoofer cable coming out of the wall that the builder put in consists of a red, black and white wire covered in a thicker insulation. Now, I have an amplifier with Channel A and B RCA inputs and Channel A and B outputs which speakers get connected to with banana plugs. I don't see how the RCA inputs enter into this at all. But, how do I make the connections to make this passive subwoofer work? Keep in mind, I cannot get to the back of the subwoofer, without causing major damage to the drywall; its just out of the question. WHAT DO I DO? Many thanks.