NBA PLayoffs 2003 (1 Viewer)

[Hunter P]

Patrick made a comment that in his opinion, AI is the most exciting player. But everyone keeps arguing against that statement by trying to prove he is NOT THE BEST PLAYER in the league or ever! WTF?

The dude only stated that he is exciting to watch so why are we throwing up statistics and bringing up names of retired dinosaurs? Read before you type, people.

AI might not be in my top 5 best list but I would rather watch him play than Duncan anytime. (No disrespect to Duncan. He is in my top 5 best players list.)

 

[Jeremiah]

Carlo, I can see what you are saying but your #1 and #2 I just can't agree with.

#1...Magic is perhaps top 3 players of all time, not to mention he had KAJ, Worthy, Scott, Cooper, Thompson, and the like, those Lakers teams were far from un talented. Really can't say AI doesn' make his teammates better, he did take McKie, Lynch, Snow, Mutumbo, and those types of players to the Finals.

#2..Jordan was delt bad cards? He had Pippen, one of the greatest all around players ever, Grant, Cartwright, Paxson, Armstrong and Phil Jackson for one 3 peat. The next he still had Phil and Pippen, not to mention Rodman, Kerr, and Ron Harper. Jordan and Magic had 2 other great players playing with him while AI doesn't even have 1 other great player with him.

I do think Championships should count in a players level of greatness but it shouldn't be the end all either. I don't think AI is on the level of Magic or Jordan but who is? It still doesn't mean that Allen Iverson isn't a great basketball player and a bad son of a bitch.

 

[Brian Perry]

Hunter said:

You can practically bank on the fact that AI will be a Hall of Famer.

That goes a little further than just saying someone is exciting. Plus, I acknowledged that AI was exciting. My goal was to point out that when you break down the game to its barest essentials, it is hard to argue that he adds significant value to a team.

In baseball, if someone leads the league in stolen bases but is caught 35% of the time, it can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that his stealing hurt the team. Likewise, I feel that while AI puts up a lot of points, he does so at the expense of better scoring opportunities. And he doesn't make up for it by holding the opposition to fewer points and possessions.

 

[Jeremiah]

My goal was to point out that when you break down the game to its barest essentials, it is hard to argue that he adds significant value to a team.

You would be hard pressed to find a person in the NBA who would agree with that statement.

 

[Carl Johnson]

There would be one sure way of proving that significant value argument: would Philadelphia be a better team with or without Iverson?

 

[Hunter P]

My man Bill Simmons wrote a great, funny paragraph about AI in his article today:



Read the whole article here.

 

[Brian Perry]

There would be one sure way of proving that significant value argument: would Philadelphia be a better team with or without Iverson?

I'm not saying they would necessarily be better without AI, but if you swapped him for someone like Paul Pierce (decent but not Hall of Fame material), I don't think the 76ers would be much worse than 48-34, which was their record this year.

 

[Henry Carmona]

Sorry, but a man with a ROY award, NBA MVP(he deserved it as much as anyone, just that fact he is being considered is huge), an All-Star award, a Finals appearance(which he was the main reason for), steal titles, and a few scoring titles, is not an average player, that is a resume that people strive to get, and a measuring stick on greatness. How many other players in the league's history have that resume?

Now that just dont make no sense!
"Measuring stick on greatness."??


DAVID ROBINSON:
*MVP Title
*Defensive Player of the Year Title
*Rookie of the Year Title
*Five Time IBM Award
*NBA Rebounding Title
*NBA Blocked Shots Title
*NBA Scoring Title (he and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar are the only two players in NBA history to win each of the three titles)
*NBA Sportsmanship Award
*Four time All-NBA First Team
*All-NBA Second Team twice
*All-NBA Third Team three times
*NBA All-Defensive First Team four times
*All-Defensive Second Team four times
*Only player in NBA history to be named to both an All-NBA Team and an NBA All-Defensive Team in each of his first seven NBA seasons
*10-time All-Star
*One of the NBA's 50 Greatest Players of All-Time
*The Spurs all-time NBA leader in games, rebounds, blocked shots, assists and both FT made and attempted and is second in franchise history in points and both FG made and attempted
*15 times NBA Player of the Week
*4 times NBA Player of the Month
*The only male basketball player in U.S. history to appear in three different Olympic Games
*Leading scorer on the 1996 Team which captured gold in Atlanta
*Member of the 1992 Team that won the gold in Barcelona
*Member of the 1988 Team that won the bronze in Seoul
*The United States' all-time leader in Olympic history in career points (270), rebounds (124) and blocked shots (34)
*Played on the 1987 Pan American Team and the 1986 USA World Championship Team


Allen Iverson a measure of greatness?

 

[Henry Carmona]

that is a resume that people strive to get, and a measuring stick on greatness. How many other players in the league's history have that resume?

"only stated that he is exciting to watch"?
Yeah, somebody needs to read before they type

 

[Hunter P]

I was referring only to the comment that started this whole debate and not the subsequent posts. We wouldn't be down this road if a few people would have just let a fan admire his favorite player.

I would rather us drop the whole AI thing or put it in another thread. Let's get back to the playoffs as a whole. That is the title of the thread after all.

I don't see how AI's or the Admiral's place in history is going to help them get into the second round.

 

[Steve_Tk]

Enough about AI already.

Let's talk about teams that actually have a chance at winning this year.

 

[Jeremiah]

David Robinson is soft and has disapeared too many times in the post season for me to give him high praise. The Admiral is a great guy but he doesn't give his most when needed, not that he is lazy but IMO he just doesn't want it bad enough. Iverson on the other hand will give everything he has and take is game up a notch.

I am not trying to say David Robinson is not a great player because he is but come post season his game goes down when it should go up. Even when the Spurs won their Championship, DA was not leading that team, he was behind Duncan(I can't rememebr if his back was hurting though). How many playoff games has DA dominated and took control of? Not enough to be considered having that one-man brilliance. I would bet that Iverson has taken control and has dominated twice as many playoff games as DA has.

I tried to find stats but I just couldn't find a site.

 

[Jeremiah]

Let's talk about teams that actually have a chance at winning this year.

The Sixers can be a dark horse to come out of the east, I think it is between them and NJ. I think NJ is the most balanced team though with Kidd, Kittles, Martin, and Jefferson. The Sixers have AI who can obviously score 40+ at any moment, but Snow, McKie, and Coleman just can't compete with the other Nets.

 

[Mark Leiter]

Making a Hall of Fame judgement on a player that is still playing is impossible. Especially when he has only been in the league a few years. There is no way to tell what might effect A.I.'s career. God forbid if he blows out his knee in his next game and never plays again. Well then he is just another Ralf Sampson. However, maybe he improves on his defense a little in the off season and Philly drafts an un-known 7'-5" 290lb Chillian center next year and they win it all for the next 5 or 6 years. Well, then he would most likely get in.

 

[Mark Leiter]

Let's talk about teams that actually have a chance at winning this year.

Agreed. The east is so wide open its funny. With the exception of Milwaukee I think any team can get through. The only reason I dont like them is cause of there off court troubles. NJ and Philly are fav's

 

[Henry Carmona]

Alright, regardless, you know a Western team is gonna take the trophy

 

[Justin Lane]

In baseball, if someone leads the league in stolen bases but is caught 35% of the time, it can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that his stealing hurt the team. Likewise, I feel that while AI puts up a lot of points, he does so at the expense of better scoring opportunities.

Once again Brain, have you actually watched many a Sixers game or are you making assumptions just from Sportscenter or box scores? Personally I have seen about 95% of Iverson's career games and without him taking the shots he does, the Sixers would have little chance of winning. This is a team filled with stiffs who couldn't throw a rock into the ocean many times. I am not saying he does not take some bad shots, but the alternatives are not much better. Brown is a terrible evaluator of talent. He passed on Paul Pierce and Nowitski. Drafted Speedy Claxton instead of Mo Petterson. Refused to trade George Lynch for Tracy McGrady or Jamal Mashburn. Loves Derrick Coleman to no end. Traded for Mutombo, complained about Mutombo, only to trade him away for Van Horn who he complains about as well. Traded for Harpring then decided he did not want him anymore. Drafted Samuel Dalembert and John Salmons in the first round. And the list goes on....

I am now going to leave the Iverson argument alone because as has been mentioned before, his resume speaks for itself. Haters on the HTF, can say what the want about Iverson because it does not mean a thing. When his career is over, he will be a lock for Springfield.

J

 

[Justin Lane]

One Iverson note: Is anyone else excited to see what he's capable of in the celebration department as the playoffs drag along? In Game 1 of the Hornets series, he poured in 55, then pranced around during a stoppage in play -- first, he pointed to the sky at one of the 25 dead friends, then he pounded his chest like he was giving himself CPR, then he pulled his jersey out and proudly displayed the letters, then he screamed happy expletives to the crowd, then he pointed at the sky again ... the whole display lasted for about 25 seconds. He's completely insane. If they make the Finals, he might perform a strip tease like Ned in Slap Shot.

A bit biased from a reporter who I don't think was even at the game. I attended the game, and this is something Iverson has done in the past. At the end of the game he put his hand up to his ear to make some noise, pulled on his Jersey showing his pride in the Sixers, and pointed up to the sky. The entire place went nuts. I wish more sports players showed the same amount of heart as Iverson does night in and night out. Not unlike Jordan jumping like a mad man and pumping his fists after beating the Cavs in the playoffs. Whoops, I forgot celebration was only allowed if you don't have tattoos or corn rows.

J

 

[Henry Carmona]

No Class if you ask me.

 

[Brian Perry]

Okay, I will drop the AI argument and move on...