NBA Basketball 2004-2005 thread (1 Viewer)

[Casey Trowbridg]

Thanks for appealling to the lowest common denominator Scott!

But since you started it with things that just had to be said...

That's what he gets for hanging out with Ricky Williams.

and

Upon hearing this Ricky Williams signed with the Clippers, promptly retired...and will apply for reinstatement next week.

You know, in a sense Detroit is looking real smart for not drafting him ahead of Darco...how would he react if he were on a Larry Brown coached team getting 0 playing time last year, and then because of his name and the fact they couldn't find anyone else he made the Larry Brown coached Olympic Basketball team...only to get 0 playing time and complain about it...and then find himself back in Pistons camp again this year.

Given Brown's attitudes towards rookies I don't think he would've played him that much more than Darco...definitely not the playing time he got with Denver...but then again he might have since Anthony was further developed than Darco.

Safe to say that Carmello wouldn't have been as content to play cheerleader as Darco was.

 

[Lew Crippen]

The one criticism that used to get raised about Joe Dumars was to not draft Carmello Anthony. Don’t forget that Joe knew some real characters: Dennis Rodman and Marvin Barnes to name but two.

 

[Scott Merryfield]

Marvin "Bad News" Barnes was long gone from the Pistons before Dumars was drafted in 1985. Marvin played for Detroit in '76/'77 and only 12 games in '77/'78 before going to Buffalo.

 

[Jan H]

Hi guys, hope you had a good summer. Opening prediction is that the Spurs will defeat the Pacers in 7 games in the 2005 NBA Finals. Now that we have that out of the way, let me begin by telling you about how I see my Lakers this year. The truth is, the Lakers could win anywhere from 30 to 50 games this year. Just like the Bulls during Michael Jordan's career, the Lakers are now Kobe's team, for better or worse. They will go as far as he can take them, and though he is reprehensible as a person, to underestimate his talent as a player is foolish. But San Antonio and Minnesota have far too much talent for them this year.

I like Indiana over Detroit. Miami is too thin, and though Shaq appears to have re-dedicated himself to conditioning (Don't get me started on this issue! ), I predict he will still visit the DL on more than a few occasions this year.

That is all. See ya when the regular season starts. Good luck, NBA fans!

 

[Casey Trowbridg]

Jan, welcome to this year's NBA thread. I agree with your assessment of the Lakers...its all up to Kobe, and while I find him to be an egomaniac that manipulated his public image and pulled a bunch of strings behind the scenes occasionally even being a malcontent on the court...he's still in the top 5 and maybe the best player in the game today from a talent standpoint. His biggest weakness as I see it is his inability to know when it is ok to let someone else take over the game, and sacrafice your game for that person's. Kobe would let Shaq get his, but he'd still try to get his even if it just wasn't happening for him, especially last year. If he can figure out how to help other guys lift their games, the Lakers will be alright. If he can't, we'll be discussing the lotery in May not the playoffs.

I also agree that Shaq will be hurt at some point this year. However, outside of Detroit and Indiana and to a lesser extent New Jersey (Kidd and Jefferson is still a good place to start especially in the East) this won't be that big of an issue because I feel he will be healthy for the Heat at the right time which is playoff time, and unless he misses the whole season, Miami is going back to the playoffs. Look at that division.

I bet the Hornets wish they were back East...Spurs, Rockets, Mavericks, Grizzlies...all playoff teams last year all in that same division. That's probably the best of the 6 divisions.

I'd rank them like this.

South West: Spurs, Rockets, Mavericks, Grizzlies, Hornets
North West: Minnesota, Portland, Seattle, Denver, Utah
Central: Indiana, Detroit, Milwaukee, Cleveland, Chicago
Pacific: Lakers, Clippers, Sacramento, Golden State, Phoenix
North East: New Jersey, New York, Boston, Philadelphia, Toronto
South East: Miami, Orlando, Atlanta, Washington, Charlotte
*that's not my projected order of finish in those divisions, just a ranking from best to worst of the divisions as a whole.

 

[Lew Crippen]

You are of course correct: News was long gone, but his legacy remained.

My favoriate story at the time was when Marvin said he had nothing to declare coming back from Windsor. Customs found several suits in his car.

News claimed that he (1) already owned them, (2)forgot he bought them that night, (3) did not know he had to declare them and (4) he was singled out because of his fame.

Sort of the ‘I was out of town on the night of the murder and besides I was crazy’ defense.

 

[Lew Crippen]

I (think) I disagree, though it is way too early to tell.

Jordan was never a malcontent on the court. He also played with Pippen and some very good role players (Rodman for rebounding and defense—Steve Kerr for a couple of game-ending three pointers) and some not so great role players, but ones who knew where they fit in the scheme of things.

We will see. In the meantime, I’m waiting to see if the Mavs have anyone who can get the ball down the court without turning it over.

BTW, in their very first time in preseason on defense, the Mavs actually put on a press.

 

[Scott Merryfield]

Don't you mean "when the other team had the ball" as opposed to "on defense"? I didn't think Allas ever played defense.

 

[Casey Trowbridg]

I don't think I ever said that Jordan was a Malcontent, just that Kobe was...and that Kobe's situation now is a lot like Jordan's with the Bulls wherein even if Kobe has guys that could help him out, much like Jordan it is unquestionably his team. Even with Pippen, it was unquestionably Jordan's team. With Shaq, whether or not it was really Kobe's team was up for debate.

 

[Lew Crippen]

You did not say that Jordan was (nor did I infer that you did). I just meant to point out that Jordan was not (and as far as I know) really never let any dissatisfaction he had spill out onto the floor.

You are correct that it is now Kobe’s team—just as those Bulls were Jordan’s, the Bad Boys were Zeke’s, the Celtics (the last ones anyway) were Bird’s, the Showtime Lakers were Magic’s and so on.

They may be Kobe’s and he may have great individual talent (probably better than most of those mentioned), but that will not likely translate into a championship without an attitude adjustment (as well as getting some more good players).

Of course things are very different now, but I wonder how many good players want to play on the same team with Bryant. Lots of very good players wanted to play with the guys above.

BTW, has anyone read the new book?

 

[Chris Farmer]

No way the Lakers miss the play-offs this year. As much as I'd admittedly like to see it (and think it's no more then the team deserves), Kobe is too talented and too driven to let it happen. The short version is, if that team goes from the Finals to not even making the play-offs in one season, the blame is going to land totally at Kobe's feat for driving off Shaq and Jackson. That's the absolute last thing he wants to let happen, and it would make his name an absolute pariah both within and without the NBA. Sure, that new 7 year contract looks great now, but if that's what happens this year, he's gonna have to be incredible both in terms of play and in terms of leadership to get anything after that new contract ends. He is going to be an absolute man on a mission to make sure the Lakers make the play-offs, because if they don't his head is going to be served to the city of LA on a silver platter. And despite my frustrations with his arrogance and selfishness, he's just so damned good and so incredibly talented anyway that if puts his mind to it, gives it his all, and has free reign to do what he wants and feels like he needs to do, the Lakers will make the play-offs. They're out in the first round, but they won't miss out.

 

[Seth Paxton]

Okay, its official, the Pacers will now go 0-82, all losses by forfeit.

Going into the first game of the season the Pacers will be without THREE starters and FIVE of their top 8. 1st round pick Harrison is also hurt.

Should be-

Tinsley
Miller
Artest
O'Neal
Foster

StepJax
Johnson
Bender
F Jones
Croshere
Pollard
Harrison/J Jones

Will be-
Tinsley
StepJax
Artest
???/Croshere
Pollard

F Jones
J Jones (Harrison is also hurt)

If you are counting, that's 7 available to play...to start the season. Right out of the gate. Sure they will fill the other spots with people (I guess) but none that would actually make the team.

Sheesh. This is why I hate the phrase "wait till next year". Next year almost inevitably ends up being hella worse than the year you almost made it all the way (see 1999 and 2001 for the Pacers as an example).

 

[Seth Paxton]

Lakers out of the playoffs.

It's not like Kobe is the only person or the Lakers the only team with a say in the matter. Maybe guys like TMac, Melo, and Nash have too much talent and drive to let Kobe keep them out of the playoffs.

Spurs
Kings
Wolves
Nuggets
Mavs
Rockets
Blazers
Jazz
Warriors

tough to say that any of those teams has less TEAM TALENT than the Lakers do. The Lakers CAN make the playoffs, but so CAN the Jazz, Blazers or Warriors.

Really, with Baron Davis and M Maglure I'd say the Hornets can make the playoffs in the West too. Perhaps even more than last year the West has great depth when it comes to solid teams, while the East remains limited to 2 great teams and a couple other solid teams and nothing else.

With that in mind, can the Bobcats make the East playoffs in their first year?

Hmm, that might not be as funny as it was supposed to sound when you think about it.

 

[Seth Paxton]

Artest
The thing is I think more was made of this in the press than with the team. After all, Peja sure ain't here. That end-of-season meeting thing was blown WAY out of proportion and all the parties involved laughed it off basically. I mean Artest played SUMMER BALL. That's an all-star coming out to play with guys that have no shot of making the team (well, until 6 injuries later) when you could be on vacation. Not exactly problem child "we're talking about practice" kind of a choice there.

I just don't think when you sit down and look at what Artest brings to the table away from the hype and highlights (both good and bad) he is really a problem at all. He's a classic workhorse just like Foster and Miller (and Bird) and that's why Bird and Carlisle will stick with him I think.

He really doesn't have a big ego as far as I can tell. At best he can kind of muster some mild cockiness, but generally in his interviews he's very humble and reserved. His speaking manner also reflects such an attitude.

I know he is playing around with recording stuff (has his own studio) but he just doesn't come across as a brash gangster type in line with an Iverson or Shaq.

Al Harrington made 20 times more waves about his PT and status than Ron ever has. He was also very conciliatory in regards to his techs 2 years ago and obviously made great strides in getting that under control.

Really, he's like a Dennis Rodman on the court and a John Stockton off it. He badgers you with his game in a way that sometimes fits just outside of being dirty (though often not) and generally resembles the pesty gym rat type that doesn't understand its only the 2nd quarter of the 2nd game of the season.


In short, Indy might have issues but personality problems is nowhere near the top of that list. Injuries, front line depth, PG depth, PG defense - those are what will keep Indy from beating Detroit if they fail, not Artest being a "loose cannon".

 

[Casey Trowbridg]

I might have to check for myself mainly cause I don't know but aside from Okafor who do they have?

I see the East like this...

Detroit, Indiana, Milwaukee, New Jersey, and Miami are 5 playoff teams. If they can find a good sixth team what they should do is only allow six teams in to the field and then do like they do in the NFL and give 2 teams a bye.

The Lakers will make the playoffs. They could still win the division if Sacramento struggles, and I've got a hunch that they will. I thijnk that 3 divisions of 5 helps the Lakers in their quest for the playoffs more than it hurts.

Sacramento
L.A. Lakers
Phoenix
L.a. Clippers
Golden State

You can't tell me that the Lakers aren't good enough for at least second out of those 5 and if things go the right way first. The Warriors are a year away I don't think they should've been put on Seth's possible playoff list. The Warriors are often a tease when they have some talent as they do this year it still doesn't seem to fall in to place for them.

Plus, while this may be Kobe's team...its not like he'll be playing one on 5. Last I checked Lamar Odom is a pretty good scoring threat, and Vlade is servicable in the middle when he's not flopping like a fish trying to draw fouls on Shaq. The Lakers are probably deeper this year than they were last year, but what they had to sacrafice to get that depth will be what makes them worse off than last year. They essentually traded Shaq for depth, and you all already know how I felt about that trade.

My playoff predictions are

In the East:
Detroit, Miami, New Jersey, Indiana, Milwaukee, Cleveland, Orlando, and Philadelphia.

West:
Minnesota, San Antonio, Los Angeles, Houston, Denver, Sacramento, Dallas, Memphis. Phoenix, Utah and Portland could sneak in though and this is not how I think the teams will be seaded.

Damn the West is deep. I'd say that realistically only Seattle and the Clippers are lost causes this year, with Golden State looking to make their run next year while still being competitive this season.

 

[Jan H]

Freudian slip or no, that's actually how I feel about their chances. I honestly have no idea what to expect from the Lakers this year.

 

[Casey Trowbridg]

Well, it was a goof on my part...but actually given that the Lakers team that played Denver looked completely different than the Lakers team that played Utah it might be possible for them to miss and make the playoffs at the same time...the NBA team with multiple personality disorder, or perhaps there are 2 different Laker teams?

Haven't said this yet, but big props go to the Pistons for the championship belts, now that's cool. I'm telling you if I weren't Laker4life, that's the kind of thing that would make me a Pistons fan, that and the whole team concept thing can't forget that.

Sacramento 0/3, not surprised to be honest.

Welcome to the NBA Charlotte Bobcats scoring your first ever win. Now you're only like 8 behind the alltime number of wins in L.A. Clipper history....ok maybe the Clippers have won more than 9 games in their history but it can't be much more than 9.

 

[Lew Crippen]

Here’s a news flash. After three games (OK early days) I can report that the Dallas Mavericks are playing defense. While they will not be confused with the Pistons (either the Bad Boys or last year’s team) for the first time in recent memory a player said in a post-game interview, “We know that if we play good defense, we will be in every game”.

Simply amazing.

 

[Scott Merryfield]

Allas playing defense? What is the NBA coming to?!

 

[Haggai]

I thought I'd seen some strange reasons for sitting out games in nearly 20 years as a rabid sports fan, but this one from Ron Artest is as surprising as any:



"And I gotta give a shout-out to my boy Seth Paxton for setting up my sweet HT system!" he didn't add.

Seriously, WTF? I'll be focused on winning after my rap album comes out, in the middle of the season?! This is ludicrous.