My Sub Stopped Working! (2 Viewers)

[schan1269]

From PE on the 1200...

Specifications: • Power output: 120 watts RMS • Frequency response: 25-140 Hz • Box design: Ported • Inputs: RCA line level & speaker level • Outputs: Speaker level • Crossover frequency control: Continuously variable from 40 Hz to 140 Hz @ 12 dB/octave • Phase switch • Auto on/off • Power requirements: 120 VAC, 60 Hz • Dimensions: 16-3/4" H x 16-3/16" W x 17-3/4" D.

Notice it says "25-140hz".

Is the 25 the F3, or the F10?
At "todays price"...I don't care. If it was at the "original price"(that I doubt anybody has ever paid...)...I would care.

By the way..."The F3"...

Frequency response is measured in +/- 3db threshold(for normal speakers...your Infinity sats are measured that way...they have a -3 extension listed as their "bottom frequency")

In subs...where the "cliff is final"...you have F3(or -3db) and F10(or -10db).

F10...is near meaningless...as nobody buys a sub for the F10. They buy it based on F3.

 

[Adam Sanchez]

How does the F12 compare to the Dayton's if I could get my budget up? What would a 450 wattt sub really do for me? Aside from piss off my wife.

 

[schan1269]

How does the F12 compare to the Dayton's if I could get my budget up?
No comparison. The F12 is, arguably, the best $200 you can spend in your theatre...if $200 is all you got. Designed by HSU, it outperforms its price class. Even if it were sold for $300 normally...it would still be competitive(nobody has ever paid more than $250 for it...I hope)


What would a 450 wattt sub really do for me?
Allow you to have "one sub" for the remainder of your theater days. If one day you move to 7.1 and slide the current TSS to center/surround duty...the F12 is still at home.

Aside from piss off my wife.
It has a volume knob...

 

[Adam Sanchez]

Thanks for the explanation of the F3, etc. I didn't understand what those terms meant. I get it a little better now. Not 100%, but somewhat. This is new territory for me. I never thought about how "Low" my Bass can go before.

 

[schan1269]

I have an old(still kicking...) M&K from 20+ years ago(the "birth" of the powered sub).

It is set(been a long since I moved it) at 1/3 volume. Why buy "more sub than you need"?

Headroom. The more headroom you have left...the longer your equipment lasts.

IE as Robert said once...

Which one do you want to drive at 120mph all day long?

A Miata? or a Porche Boxster?

 

[Adam Sanchez]

The F12 is tempting, I admit.

I hope this does not come off as a dumb question, I am learning here. But what would the difference be in a 475 watt sub vs a 100 watt? Would the base be deeper? I assume the 475 could get louder, but I also assume there is more to it than that.

If the F12 just means I would have volume knob set lower than a 100 watt sub, then I might need more to go on.

Again, I appreciate the input. I feel I'm down to a few choices, which is great.

 

[schan1269]

Without knowing the efficiency of the drivers used in the two subs...power is not helping.

To go up 3db, you need twice the power.

So, lets say you have two 12" drivers...each capable of an F3 at 25hz...but.

One driver is 87db efficient, the other is 82db efficient. (keeping in mind the F3 is 3db lower than "the efficiency", ergo...87 is 84db at 25, and 82db is 79db at 25)

To achieve 100db of 25hz bass(tall order for any sub...even at $1000...and to boot, this is just math...not what these two subs are doing)

The 82db driver needs 115 watts.
The 87db driver needs 40 watts.

 

[Robert_J]

What would a 450 wattt sub really do for me? Aside from piss off my wife.

I have dual 15" subs each receiving a little more than 800w RMS and my wife loves it. Properly calibrated, even a dozen 18" subs will not overpower your main speakers.

Yes, most of the time, my 15's are just loafing along playing the bass information for Big Bang Theory. But when I want to watch the "Irene" scene of Black Hawk Down, I can feel the sub 20hz frequency burst in my chest.

 

[Adam Sanchez]

So it's definitely about more than just the watts. It's other factors like how low the bass frequency goes.

If I just can't swing or justify the F12, then what else would you recommend?

What does RMS and Dynamic peak mean? (as in:

[*]Recommended Power: Built-in Amplifier Power: 475 watts Dynamic Peak, 150 watts RMS continuous)
[/list]

 

[schan1269]

RMS is continuous. That is what, if turned up full bore, it can rumble along with.

Peak is instantaneous.

Like if you are rocking along to Underworld: Awakening(I mention this movie...a lot)

The peaks of 475 mean it has instantaneous bursts of 10db of headroom(actually more than 10...but not much more)

Which means it won't destroy itself.

Edit:
My calculations are off...

150 to 475 isn't 10db...more like 5. Point being...it still won't destroy itself.

A 10db "peak" requiring the 475 maximum would only be 47.5 watts at the RMS point.

Movies are mixed 85db valley and 105db peaks. I seriously doubt you listen that loud. so...if 105db was the 475(theoretical here)...85 db would only be 4.75 watts.

 

[schan1269]

I have dual 15" subs each receiving a little more than 800w RMS and my wife loves it. Properly calibrated, even a dozen 18" subs will not overpower your main speakers.

Yes, most of the time, my 15's are just loafing along playing the bass information for Big Bang Theory. But when I want to watch the "Irene" scene of Black Hawk Down, I can feel the sub 20hz frequency burst in my chest.

I still have not seen BHD. I don't even own it.

 

[Robert_J]

According to a lot of sites, that scene has a 5hz pulse that will either not be heard at all (sub will filter it out to protect itself) or push your sub to the limits. But my drivers have 30mm of one-way excursion so it takes a lot. https://web.archive.org/web/20070402025330/http://www.tcsounds.com/tc3000.htm

 

[schan1269]

5hz wave...probably pisses off the neighbors...

 

[Adam Sanchez]

I definitely do not listen to anything at 85db. On my receiver, on which the volume is set to relative, I listen to movies at 55 up to occasionally 60. My receiver has reference marked at 82. I love a good loud movie and I have turned it up to 82 just for fun and even I think it's a bit much.

 

[schan1269]

I definitely do not listen to anything at 85db. On my receiver, on which the volume is set to relative, I listen to movies at 55 up to occasionally 60. My receiver has reference marked at 82. I love a good loud movie and I have turned it up to 82 just for fun and even I think it's a bit much.

Only as a nitpick(from a purist standpoint... )

DB in your AVR has nothing to do with real room DB.

In the AVR it is based on pure power production. It doesn't have the slightest clue what your speakers, speaker placement...or room furnishings are.

 

[Adam Sanchez]

Sorry, meant no offense. Although I've had a home theater in some fashion for about 15 years, the nuances like those discussed today are new to me.

Still debating which sub to get. I have been oh so productive at work today!

 

[schan1269]

No offense...

I'm supposed to be drawing up a theatre today based on blue prints. The slab isn't even poured yet, but they want in the floor speaker wire and electrical junctions(which you have to plan before the slab).

He "already has" the speakers (in-process at Salk). They are being finished in the same "stucco" as the interior walls. (even I almost threw up my lunch when I found out how much "extra" this is going to cost. The speakers will have to be driven, by themselves, from the plant to the house)

 

[Glen B2]

I know this limits me but I would really like to stay around $150 for a budget. I realize just from looking a little last night and today there are some great subs out there for $200, but I think I can get something I'm happy with for about $150 or so.

This Dayton sub with shipping falls within your $150 budget. http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-sub-1200-12-120-watt-powered-subwoofer--300-629 , and scores a 4.7 of 5 in the user reviews. I have been running a couple of Dayton subs in my HT system for a few years now. I even covered them in cherry veneer to match my other speakers. I have no complaints other than the loud thump when they are first plugged into the electrical outlet.

 

[schan1269]

This Dayton sub with shipping falls within your $150 budget. http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-sub-1200-12-120-watt-powered-subwoofer--300-629 , and scores a 4.7 of 5 in the user reviews. I have been running a couple of Dayton subs in my HT system for a few years now. I even covered them in cherry veneer to match my other speakers. I have no complaints other than the loud thump when they are first plugged into the electrical outlet.

We've been discussing that sub...if you read any of the interim 37 some posts.

 

[Adam Sanchez]

Any thoughts on the BIC V-80? I figure if the F-12 is good, I would hope this one is too. I can get it for almost the same price as the Dayton. Both seem pretty solid.

I did read the Dayton has been known to have issues with it's "auto" mode. Maybe it's hit or miss but I definitely liked the auto mode of my old sub. It actually didn't have an option not to use it. The switch for on and auto were the same. Luckily it worked fine!