My dilemma: Panasonic ZT vs. Samsung F8500 (2 Viewers)

[Reed Grele]

Ron,

Wasn't aware that you had tried 3D DLP. What did you think of it?

I know that the early models suffered from the "rainbow effect". Perhaps you were turned off by that? The Sharp I have does not have any RBE that I can see.

Since projection wouldn't be an option in your media room, and Mitsubishi is no longer making DLP sets, I don't know what to recommend.

All I can say it that The Sharp 30k DLP made me a happy man. If I only had a small room for my HT, I'd still use it project as large an image as possible. Even if I had to place it on a back shelf or table.

I hope that whatever you end up with will make you as happy as I am with the Sharp 30k.

HAPPY HOLIDAYS!

 

[Robert Crawford]

Ron,

Wasn't aware that you had tried 3D DLP. What did you think of it?

I know that the early models suffered from the "rainbow effect". Perhaps you were turned off by that? The Sharp I have does not have any RBE that I can see.

Since projection wouldn't be an option in your media room, and Mitsubishi is no longer making DLP sets, I don't know what to recommend.

All I can say it that The Sharp 30k DLP made me a happy man. If I only had a small room for my HT, I'd still use it project as large an image as possible. Even if I had to place it on a back shelf or table.

I hope that whatever you end up with will make you as happy as I am with the Sharp 30k.

HAPPY HOLIDAYS!

Ron's DLP wasn't a 3-D model.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Robert is very much aware of the DLP display I owned.

He and I had the same display. It was an HP 65" DLP.

It was an incredible display. I ended up giving it away to friends 3 years ago
when I took possession of my first 3D plasma -- but from what I understand,
the display is still working quite well.

Reed, I know you have been pushing projection. I am convinced, sight unseen,
that it would probably end up being the perfect choice. However, as I discussed
earlier, there are so many adjustments I would have to make including buying and
mounting a screen (which I have no idea how to do) as well as figuring out how to
house the projector (as I don't want to keep it on a table)

 

[RickardL]

"... the Samsung picture has more of a "soap opera" look to it"...

No, that is certainly not the case. The only way you can get something like a non-cinematic
look is if you enable the Motion Judder Canceller. Setting Film Mode to "Cinema Smoth"
works perfect with blu-rays for me.

"Of course, there's a chance it will be many times better than the ZT60."

"Do I have time to hop on two trains to get to the retailer, unbox the Samsung at the store and go through it with a fine tooth-comb? Not really, but I may consider it. "

I say you have to do that and decide for yourself. It's the only way to be sure.

After all, it is a TV you will spend many many hours, and probably years, watching so
what is that compared to doing a bit of train travel?

Now, I can't promise you will like the F8500 better BUT if you don't check it out for yourself,
you will always have that little nagging thought in the back of your head saying:
" what IF I the F800 really suited me better after all...?"

So, don't believe everything you read, things often get blown out of proportion,
you will have to decide for yourself.

Now if you go, you could use Kevin Miller's 2D and 3D settings in the article I linked to.
They will not get you a 100% perfect picture but they will get you in the right ballpark at least.
That is, if they don't have a properly calibrated set of course.

 

[Reed Grele]

Robert is very much aware of the DLP display I owned.

He and I had the same display. It was an HP 65" DLP.

It was an incredible display. I ended up giving it away to friends 3 years ago
when I took possession of my first 3D plasma -- but from what I understand,
the display is still working quite well.

Reed, I know you have been pushing projection. I am convinced, sight unseen,
that it would probably end up being the perfect choice. However, as I discussed
earlier, there are so many adjustments I would have to make including buying and
mounting a screen (which I have no idea how to do) as well as figuring out how to
house the projector (as I don't want to keep it on a table)

Ron,

As I still have leftover wood and b/o cloth from a previous project, If you ever decide to buy a 3D DLP projector, I'll build you a screen gratis. Any size (up to 90" diagonal.)

 

[schan1269]

Ron,

As I still have leftover wood and b/o cloth from a previous project, If you ever decide to buy a 3D DLP projector, I'll build you a screen gratis. Any size (up to 90" diagonal.)

And we don't know what the room is like.

Back in August(clients with stupid cash) I set up a triple display...

Plasma, daytime/3D projector(a 2500 lumen canon) and a nightime(Knoll Systems).

The plasma is even on an Auton slide mount so it can slide out from behind the screen(which is powered anyway) when the kids want XBox and dad wants stock ticker...

 

[RickardL]

I just got an Oppo BDP-103D and I have now watched the Montage from Spears and Munsil HD Benchmark 2nd vol on the F8500 and it was the best 3D I have ever seen!
I thought I had watched some good 3D at the movies with Avatar, Prometheus, Star Trek Into Darkness, IMAX stuff etc but the visuals on the F8500 blew everything else away.
Bright, sharp, crystal clear and no sign of any artifacts at all.
I tried using the test patterns on the S&M disc for measuring the amount of crosstalk, I don't know if I did it correctly but it looked like below 0.5% visual crosstalk whatever that means, but again, not sure I read it right.
I have now actually ordered some 3D titles (Avatar, Titanic and Predator) but it will take some days before I get them.

 

[RickardL]

I sampled Avatar and Titanic in 3D today. Avatar looked good, very good!
But I was even more amazed how good Titanic looked considering it wasn't filmed in 3D originally!
Oh, and I tried using the Darbee "Full Pop" setting to 75% on my Oppo BDP-103D,
And I think it brings out some extra depth, contrast and sharpness to the 3D image without introducing any ringing artefacts commonly associated with normal Edge Enhancement/Sharpness controls.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Rickard,

Set to receive my F8500 on Friday.

Came this close to buying a Darbee but was told that it does more harm
than good to the picture.

 

[FoxyMulder]

Rickard,

Set to receive my F8500 on Friday.

Came this close to buying a Darbee but was told that it does more harm
than good to the picture.

No reviewer should have a Darbee in the chain as it alters the original image, i am glad you decided against it, some claim it is great but it is not so good with film grain and if you already have a good display and high definition image then why alter it, for some extra pop, okay people are welcome to it but i prefer an unmolested image no matter how good the thing is.

 

[RickardL]

Yes, I have mostly the same opinion with preserving and presenting an unaltered picture on a calibrated display but 3D watchers might find Darbee useful...

"...using the BDP-103D and several 3D Blu-ray Disc movies as the source, and the Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 2030 as the display device, I can say that I found that 3D-with-Darbee looks great.
In typical 3D viewing situations, although depth is displayed, many times when comparing 3D to 2D versions of the same content, 3D loses detail, so the result appears somewhat softer (and darker).
However, when applying Darbee Visual Presence, not only can the lost detail be "restored", but the image looks more natural than the original 3D image.
Until a good glassless viewing option for 3D becomes available, 3D with Darbee added may be your best bet."
http://hometheater.about.com/od/dvdplayerrecorderreviews/ss/OPPO-BDP-103D-Darbee-Edition-Blu-ray-Disc-Player-Photo-Illustrated-Review_16.htm

 

[Johnny Angell]

Darned? What's a Darbee?I feel like Fred Gynne saying "Yute? What's a Yute?

 

[Reed Grele]

It's an outboard image enhancer. The Darbee Darblet.

 

[RickardL]

It's an outboard image enhancer. The Darbee Darblet.

Not to derail this thread but it is not only outboard. It has also been integrated into the latest Oppo blu-ray player: BDP-103D.
I only brought it up since I knew Ronald had shown interest in such a gizmo: Halite. And the Samsung F85000 of course.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

I was tempted....really tempted. However, I can see it doing more harm than good.

...and if I am reviewing films for HTF, I can't be using it at all.

 

[RickardL]

...and if I am reviewing films for HTF, I can't be using it at all.

So what do you do with the sound? Have you set it to your own preference or has it been calibrated to match movie standards?
Or isn't sound so important when reviewing films? Just curious...

 

[schan1269]

Sound is so much more subjective.My main theatre, 7.1 + height, is probably close to "movie standards". I'm probably one of the few here that adheres to SACD/DVD-A speaker placement. I've never found anything to suggest movies aren't mixed where equal distance still isn't the norm.How many of us have equidistant speaker placement?

 

[RickardL]

Sound is so much more subjective.My main theatre, 7.1 + height, is probably close to "movie standards". I'm probably one of the few here that adheres to SACD/DVD-A speaker placement. I've never found anything to suggest movies aren't mixed where equal distance still isn't the norm.How many of us have equidistant speaker placement?

Probably not many. We rely on setting the correct distance in the AVR which causes the sound arrive at the listener at the correct time.
Personally, I use Audyssey MultEQ XT32 and Dynamic EQ which is all about hearing the movie soundtrack as the film mixer heard it.

 

[schan1269]

And to me, the use of those belies the original intent of the soundtrack.

Most of my listening, if done for a review, is done "Direct"...where all bass management and room correction is minimized. I even mention as much. I'll listen to a movie Direct...and then with Height/Width(or if 5.1 DTS Neo/IIx added in) to see what the effects are.

I approached the Elite SC79 review that way...

"re-directing the thread from the side-track".....

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Rickard,

You really are comparing apples to oranges.

I can't review a film when I have a device artificially enhancing an image that
one, isn't representative of the final product and two, a result that 99% of the
rest of the forum membership will not be able to achieve without the device.