My Denon DVD 2900 review [long] (1 Viewer)

[Marc_E]

So far I love my 2900. Audio is great. I haven't watched much other than a scene or two here and ther. I have had no BM problems as others have (my pre/pro is AVM-20).
Highly reccomend
Marc

 

[Rich Malloy]

Lewis, I'm not entirely clear on the bass management thing... are you using the Outlaw 950 or the Denon 2900 for BM? If the Outlaw, are you saying it's "analog and transparent" like the ICBM?

And when you say "Don't forget the big plus of the digital Time Alignment,that can be aplied even if you elect to use the BM on the 950", does this apply to SACD and DVD-A sources? And, if so, does it time align without degrading the sound quality for both the "pure" DSD signal for SACD or 24/192 signal for DVD-A?

Finally, when you say "Everything happens via on screen menus" for setting it up, does this mean one would have to have a monitor in the system for day-to-day audio use, or can you do all DVD-A and SACD adjustments without resorting to a monitor?

 

[Lewis Besze]

Finally, when you say "Everything happens via on screen menus" for setting it up, does this mean one would have to have a monitor in the system for day-to-day audio use, or can you do all DVD-A and SACD adjustments without resorting to a monitor?

For SACD not at all,there is a button called "SACD set op" on the front panel,which can be set to "multi", "stereo" or, "cd". For DVD-A it's almost mandatory to have a video monitor turned on to navigate between "groups". This is the only "beef" I have with this player so far.

 

[Lewis Besze]

I am debating between the Denon DVD-2900 and the Philips DVD963SA. Which one do you think I should get?

The Philips doesn't do DVD-A,so if it's important to you the choice is clear,however I've never owned/used the Philips,so I'm not in the position to recommend it or not.
Sorry!

 

[Rich Malloy]

Lewis, one more question if you don't mind...

My biggest beef with my Sony C555ES, and every other SACD player I've personally heard or discussed on these and other forums, is the rather steep degradation of sound quality when the bass management circuitry is engaged. The sonics are reduced to such an extent that myself and everyone else I forced to listen greatly preferred the sound with a full-range signal sent to all speakers, bypassing the bass management circuitry altogether. Even though my center and rears are not full-range speakers, the sound was still clearly and demonstrably better. I ended up picking up an Outlaw ICBM-1 for $199, and dialed everything in real tight (this little accessory is worth every word-of-praise you've ever heard on its behalf... and then some).

Recently, it was reported that a new Yamaha player might perform bass management without degrading the signal, but that was one person, a new unit, and I have my doubts.

Since you're using the onboard bass management of the Denon for SACD, for me the $60K question is (wait for it!)... does it degrade the sound quality?

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Lewis- I have the 47ai. My levels balance as I put forth above. I urge you to get the Chesky Ultimate DVD-A test disc. That 10 dB is *not* already included.

http://www.chesky.com/catalog/body_c...274&CATEGORY=2

 

[LanceJ]

Concerning this "group" function: as far as I know, usually only Warner's first set of dvd-audios require on-screen operation. With all my (later) dvd-audios, to switch between multichannel & stereo on my Pioneer DV-656A I just push the "audio" button--that's it. The titles: The Nightfly, Fragile, What's New?, and Reanimation.

But if you're playing dvd-audios on a dvd-VIDEO player, then things are different. This is where you have to flip on the TV for the disc's menu. I think this is programmed intentionally by the disc authoring people to encourage you to buy a "real" dvd-audio player (in fact many of the first dvd-audios wouldn't let you access any of its visual or bonus content on plain dvd-video players--IMO not good marketing!).

On a side note.......

I've said this before but I think people need to stop relying so much on those test discs for everything and just listen to their system using their own darn ears. What happens if you don't sit in the exact same place everytime (10cm distance adjustments :frowning:??)? Close the curtains? When there's lots of other people in the room?

LJ

 

[Lewis Besze]

Lewis- I have the 47ai. My levels balance as I put forth above. I urge you to get the Chesky Ultimate DVD-A test disc. That 10 dB is *not* already included.

Thanks,Kevin but I rather spend my money on music discs.If it ain't broken don't fix it!
Do you have a 2900,have you heard my set up?
I know you try to "help" but belive me everything is as it should be with the 2900 in my rig.

 

[Bob Barton]

I have the 2900 connected to a Pioneer 49tx and I'm curious about this BM issue. When using the AVIA sub woofer sweep, with the 49 set to DD, I get normal bass, but with the 49 set to multi channel there is basically very little bass. When playing a DD source through the digital link or the multi channel link, shouldn't the bass output be about the same? I've tried the 2900 set with the filter on and off, large and small speakers and cannot seem to change the results. Any ideas?

Thanks,
Bob

 

[Lewis Besze]

When playing a DD source through the digital link or the multi channel link, shouldn't the bass output be about the same?

Yes it should be,however I'm not aquinted with the Elite receiver,so I can't help you there,sorry.

 

[Kevin C Brown]

When using the AVIA sub woofer sweep, with the 49 set to DD, I get normal bass, but with the 49 set to multi channel there is basically very little bass.

Bingo. You're 10 dB too low on the analog sub output from the player. The DD decoder, whether in the receiver or the player, automatically adds 10 db to the LFE signal. There's nothing you can do about it, and it's completely transparent to the operation of the player. However, that 10 dB boost is not included for SACD or DVD-A. That's why, if you use a DD disc to set up a DVD-A/SACD player, you have to adjust the player's *analog* sub output to compensate. If you don't? You get a sub output from the player that is 10 dB too low.

The best part? You don't even have to take my word for it. Go get that Chesky Ultimate DVD-A test disc and you can see it for yourself. BTW, that test disc also has the best phase tests I've come across (other than doing it manually with a discrete test tone disc). Also includes real bass guitar tests for phase that is really enlightening. In phase, out of phase, you still *hear* the bass guitar, but in phase? You get the low freq "rumble" too. Not so if you're out of phase. I never found the mains-to-sub phase tests on Avia all that useful. Also has 9 or 10 very cool audio tracks to test out your new player. My other favorite track, is a 1 min example of recorded music that is panned around the room. Very nice test for speaker timbre matching in your system.

 

[Bob Barton]

You're 10 dB too low on the analog sub output from the player. The DD decoder, whether in the receiver or the player, automatically adds 10 db to the LFE signal.

Kevin and Lewis,

Thanks for your replies! Kevin, I understand what your saying, but isn't the Avia a DD source played through the multi channel outs of the 2900? If I play a DD source through the 2900 multi channel outs, shouldn't it use the 2900 DD decoder?

Thanks,

Bob

 

[Michael St. Clair]

When calibrating the Yamaha DVD-S2300 with Avia and the Checky test DVD-A, I did not get a substantial difference in bass levels between DD and DVD-A.

 

[Lewis Besze]

Thanks for your replies! Kevin, I understand what your saying, but isn't the Avia a DD source played through the multi channel outs of the 2900? If I play a DD source through the 2900 multi channel outs, shouldn't it use the 2900 DD decoder?

Bingo! Correct.
Sorry Kevin! Bob I know this "bickering" doesn't help you, but at least you understand the things involved here.
Does your Elite has input gain setting for the 6 ch input[individual ch level controll]?

 

[Rachael B]

I listened to SACD's on the 2900 2-day at two different dealer's on 2 very different sounding set-ups.

#1 on Paradigm Reference 60's and center and 20's for surround and a 4802 amp.

#2 on the Yamaha RZ-1 with really big Klipsch towers, pfat centre, and fatty 'pole surrounds. I don't know the Klipsch models by #.

I thought it gave a pretty good front soundstage with either set of speakers. I know from place #2 that all speakers were set to large. At place #1 I'm not sure how the player was set for BM, they were busy, and I meant to ask, but ended up forgetting to. It was my impression on both sets of speakers that stereo SACD didn't sound as good as a Sony 555ES or XA777ES. Yet, it seemed to perform rather well for M/C front-wise. Rer speaker placement wasn't optimum at either place. So, I didn't pay much attention.

I took some really good sounding discs with me.

Joe Chambers' URBAN GROOVES
The Kinks' LOW BUDJET
Doc Powell's 97th & COLUMBUS
Alison Krauss' NEW FAVORITE
Jorma Kaukonen's BLUE COUNTRY HEART

The Joe Chambers and Kinks are stereo discs. They just didn't sound as good as the 555 or 777 plays them, but definitely better than a Sony SCD-775 plays them. Of the M/C discs, on both systems, Doc Powell sounded really good. It's DSD recorded. It's a hot tamale, if you like smooth jazz...

I forgot to grab Boz Scaggs DIG DVD-A on the way out the house. Some players won't read it, including mine the RP-91 and the Pioneer DV-47's didn't handle it correctly. I'll take it sunday when I drop by and get my Doc Powell disc back from a friend I loaned it to. I'm tempted to buy one for my theatre but my budjet planner say sez no for the time being. They want $999 plus the govenor's 9.25% cruelty tax. I'm a little tempted. I wanna see more and see the price drop a bit too.

I stille haven't seen the Yamaha 2300 because dealer #2 stille hasn't stocked one, ugh. For SACD into an analog 5.1 input I definitely prefer the 2900 to the 47a or 47ai. I'm using my 555 for M/C right now into my single set of 5.1 inputs. I'm sure it's a better all-round performer but DVD-A convience is desirable. I'd like to buy the new Zappa! Sign me - Tempted? ?

 

[Bob Barton]

Lewis,

Yes, I can perform level adjustments on the multi channel inputs independently from the DD. The initial calibration of the Elite was done through the receivers MACC (auto calibration), so the level settings for all inputs were identical. If I boost the sub level adjustment, say by 10DB, the sub levels match when playing through the DD input or the multi channel input. It seems this is a work around, but a solution none the less.

More than likely, I won't be using the 2900's DD decoder, but thought this would be a good test of the 2900s sub output level. Looks like I should get some type of true DVD audio calibration source to see if the sub out of the 2900 differs from DVD audio to DVD video.

Thanks again for your help!

Bob

 

[Mike OConnell]

quote:

Does your Elite has input gain setting for the 6 ch input[individual ch level controll]?

Lewis:

Therein lies the problem with the 2900..... for those that have a receiver or pre/pro that can provide BM of the external inputs there is not a problem with the 2900.

For those that have external inputs that are pass-through and must rely on the BM of the 2900 is where the problem presents itself.

Here is a challenge:

Can someone give this a try for those of us that do not have external input BM on the receiver. Set your unit up using ONLY the BM of the 2900 with the 2900 set using the crossover for DVD-A / SACD for all five channels where the choice exists. No changing the volume setting for the subwoofer manually to achieve a balanced system (75 dB calibration on all channels) either! That should not be necessary to balance the system between external inputs and coaxial digital inputs.

If the 2900 BM is operating correctly you should be able to balance the system for ALL modes using the external input without resorting to any adjustments but those from the 2900.

If you can't - something is wrong.

If what I am posting here is wrong. Please explain to my why.

I really want to buy this unit, but if a Denon player won't work with my Denon 5800 and be properly calibrated when I change between sources without having to change setttings - then something is wrong.

Thanks,
Mike

 

[Michael St. Clair]

Rachael,

The Zappa disc has a 24/48 PCM stereo track that plays on all DVD players.

You must buy it immediately regardless of what your player plans are!

 

[Dzung Pham]

Thare are now BM setup tips for the 2900 on Denon's website:

http://www.usa.denon.com/catalog/pdf...tup%20Tips.pdf

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Hey Lewis - Seems like the 2900 has a problem with *all* sub outputs from the player...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=256193

Bob- Well, other than what people are reporting over on AVS ... Like I said, *any* DD decoder adds that 10 dB in (part of the "standard"). Doesn't matter if it's from the player or a receiver/pre pro. So because that boost is there, SACD & DVD-A end up to be 10 dB too low. Make sense? In other words, if the main channels are all 0 dB, and *with* the 10 dB boost the sub channel is 0 dB (DD), then without that boost, the sub channel is ... -10 dB (SACD/DVD-A).