My Darling Clementine: 97 or 104 minute version?

Discussion in 'Blu-ray and UHD' started by Robert Crawford, Jun 21, 2014.

Tags:
  1. Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 1998
    Messages:
    29,236
    Likes Received:
    4,615
    Location:
    Michigan
    Real Name:
    Robert
    This is a place holder so I'll be updating this thread later this weekend. Today, I received the German BD of My Darling Clementine. This BD was released by Fox in Germany. Even though the BD case is in German. The actual BD menu is in English. The disc contains the shorter, theatrical release of 97 minutes. It has the audio commentary from the Region 1 DVD release along with the trailer.

    This BD actually played on my Region A Panny BD player. However, I've been actually watching it on my modified Oppo 103. Anyhow, I'm in the middle of comparing this disc to the Region 1 DVD release. Also, I'm watching the excellent Robert Gitt segment that was on the Region 1 DVD as I compared the two different versions of this great film.

    More to come as I hope a Region A BD is coming soon with both versions of the film on it.
     
  2. Peter Neski

    Peter Neski Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Messages:
    957
    Likes Received:
    31
    gee only one version ,hope the US is like the DVD
     
  3. Matt Hough

    Matt Hough Executive Producer
    Reviewer

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2006
    Messages:
    14,421
    Likes Received:
    2,846
    Location:
    Charlotte, NC
    Real Name:
    Matt Hough
    Really love this movie; one of the greatest John Ford ever made.
     
    JoeDoakes and ahollis like this.
  4. jim_falconer

    jim_falconer Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2004
    Messages:
    630
    Likes Received:
    179
    Completely agree!
     
  5. Ronald Epstein

    Ronald Epstein Administrator
    Owner

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 1997
    Messages:
    46,204
    Likes Received:
    4,260
    Real Name:
    Ronald Epstein
    Saw this years ago based on a nudge from Mr. Crawford.

    I remember loving it completely. I have forgotten it completely, too. :P

    ...but that is a good thing. That means I am primed for a Blu-ray release.

    I will await further comments on which is the preferred version. If only the
    shorter version is being made available, and it is not preferred, I will hope that
    Fox will release this domestically later this year.
     
  6. Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 1998
    Messages:
    29,236
    Likes Received:
    4,615
    Location:
    Michigan
    Real Name:
    Robert
    Director:

    John Ford

    Cast:

    Wyatt Earp: Henry Fonda
    Doc Holliday: Victor Mature
    Old Man Clanton: Walter Brennan
    Morgan Earp: Ward Bond
    Virgil Earp: Tim Holt
    Chihuahua: Linda Darnell
    Clementine Carter: Cathy Downs
    Billy Clanton: John Ireland
    Ike Clanton: Grant Withers
    Granvile Thorndyke: Alan Mowbry
    Mayor: Roy Roberts
    Kate Nelson: Jane Darwell


    Okay after spending about 5 hours comparing the two different versions of this great film, I'm ready to advocate that both versions be included in the upcoming BD release in Region A. There is no official announcement from Fox regarding this title on BD in Region A. However, it's coming, there is no way that Fox would do such a fine job with this Region B release and not do one for Region A. The disc looks and sounds too damn good not to be released here!

    Anyway, the German BD contains only the 97 minute version, the audio commentary of Scott Eyman and Wyatt Earp III and the theatrical trailer.

    While the Region 1 2004 SD DVD released contains both, the 97 and 104 minute versions. Also, the same audio commentary and trailer along with the fine documentary from Robert Gitt, former head of UCLA Film and Television Archive. The documentary discusses the history of this film and why there are two versions of it. Many thanks to UCLA because if it wasn't for them, we would only have the 97 minute version on home video.

    My preference on which version of the film isn't an easy choice nor is it black and white decision for me. Actually, there are segments from each version that I enjoy a lot and wish they were part of the other film version. On the 97 minute version, I enjoy the final scene with Wyatt Earp and Clementine and some musical inclusions during certain scenes. With that said, if I had to make a choice, I would pick the 104 minute version because I like the extended ending of the film along with some other extended segments including the segment right after the O.K. Corral shootout and the glances from Wyatt Earp to the window of Chihuahua's room.

    As to the German BD, the video and audio presentations are wonderful and offer great improvements over the SD DVD. For those that think in a black and white film you can't see nor hear much improvement with a BD over a SD DVD, I can't disagree with you more in that argument. The film lighting and deep focus photography from this film really stands out in 1080p. IMO, there is quite a bit of difference as there is no way the upconverted 2004 SD DVD can compete with this BD's, 1080p video signal nor its DTS HD Master Audio 1.0

    Back in 2012, during the HTF Meet in LA, the membership had an opportunity to visit Fox Studios. During that visit, I spoke with Schawn Belston, Senior Vice President of Fox's Library and Technical Services. I urged him then to make sure both versions of this great film are included in any BD release. He did commented to me that there were some technical issues with the film elements in regard to a BD release. Evidently, based on this BD release those issues, at least in regard to the 97 minute version have been overcome by Belston's group.

    Please Fox, release a Blu-ray soon in Region A with both versions along with the audio commentary and UCLA featurette. Doing so, would give us the best of both worlds and allow the general public to have the ultimate home video experience with this great film.
     
  7. John Hodson

    John Hodson Producer

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    4,524
    Likes Received:
    313
    Location:
    Bolton, Lancashire
    Real Name:
    John
    Easily the longer version for me; better ending, better editing, better use of the score (less is more) - it's simply more 'Fordian'. But I'd want both versions on any BD I buy.
     
  8. Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 1998
    Messages:
    29,236
    Likes Received:
    4,615
    Location:
    Michigan
    Real Name:
    Robert
    I disagree about the score somewhat as I think Zanuck's inclusion of some musical notes offer improvement over Ford's version. However, it's not always the case throughout the film just in a few sequences.

    Also, I liked the goodbye that showed more passion from Wyatt in the shorter version.
     
  9. Matt Hough

    Matt Hough Executive Producer
    Reviewer

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2006
    Messages:
    14,421
    Likes Received:
    2,846
    Location:
    Charlotte, NC
    Real Name:
    Matt Hough
    Thanks for your comparison between the two versions and between the BD and DVD releases. I've always liked the longer version, but that may be because I haven't given the shorter version more attention. I might watch it sometime today.
     
  10. AshJW

    AshJW Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2013
    Messages:
    540
    Likes Received:
    178
    Location:
    Hamburg, Germany
    Real Name:
    Thomas
    Here in Germany the longer was also released on DVD and with that I will stay until hopefully both versions will get a BD release.
     
  11. Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 1998
    Messages:
    29,236
    Likes Received:
    4,615
    Location:
    Michigan
    Real Name:
    Robert
    For the most of us old timer's lives, that shorter version is what we grew up watching on TV or in revival houses. It wasn't until 20 years ago that UCLA discovered the longer version from a print that Fox gave them back in the 70's. Even this longer version still is only 7 minutes longer while Zanuck had 30 minutes cut from the Pre-Release version.
     
  12. Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 1998
    Messages:
    29,236
    Likes Received:
    4,615
    Location:
    Michigan
    Real Name:
    Robert
    The more I think about, we need just about every major John Ford film on Blu-ray. The man was a master of his craft and the art form called film.
     
    AshJW, bujaki, Danny Burk and 6 others like this.
  13. lukejosephchung

    lukejosephchung Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2007
    Messages:
    1,393
    Likes Received:
    391
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA., USA
    Real Name:
    Luke J. Chung
    Whether Fox decides to release this domestically themselves or via their licensing deal with Twilight Time, it's long overdue for a blu-ray...especially if it includes BOTH cuts of this classic film!!!
     
  14. smithbrad

    smithbrad Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2013
    Messages:
    1,039
    Likes Received:
    955
    Real Name:
    Brad
    Obviously, both cuts would be best. Personally, I preferred Zanuck's version except for the ending, there I think Ford got it right.
     
  15. Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 1998
    Messages:
    29,236
    Likes Received:
    4,615
    Location:
    Michigan
    Real Name:
    Robert
    Why do you think so?
     
  16. John Hodson

    John Hodson Producer

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    4,524
    Likes Received:
    313
    Location:
    Bolton, Lancashire
    Real Name:
    John
    For me the studio shot kiss wrenches you out of the moment; it looks precisely what it is - shoehorned in. There's more touching romance in that chaste handshake, the look in Fonda's eyes, the aching awkwardness of his Earp defined in a moment.

    First time I saw it, I wanted to stand up and cheer.
     
  17. Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 1998
    Messages:
    29,236
    Likes Received:
    4,615
    Location:
    Michigan
    Real Name:
    Robert
    Do you know why they added the kiss?
     
  18. John Hodson

    John Hodson Producer

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    4,524
    Likes Received:
    313
    Location:
    Bolton, Lancashire
    Real Name:
    John
    Yes I do; and so do you.
     
  19. Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 1998
    Messages:
    29,236
    Likes Received:
    4,615
    Location:
    Michigan
    Real Name:
    Robert
    Just checking because Zanuck thought Ford's ending was fine, but that the preview audience of 2000 people were unsatisfied with just the handshake. I guess a war weary public wanted a little more affection from Wyatt as obviously, he loved this woman. At least, they didn't add on a kiss on the lips. I kind of like the peck on the cheek. Up until the last ten years or so, it's the only way we've seen that ending.
     
  20. Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 1998
    Messages:
    29,236
    Likes Received:
    4,615
    Location:
    Michigan
    Real Name:
    Robert
    One more extended scene I liked in Ford's version were the additional shots of Wyatt and Clementine just before the operation. It better explains the shot of Wyatt with his back turn during the start of the operation.
     

Share This Page