Most Transparent Speakers under $1500? (1 Viewer)

[DaViD Boulet]

If midrange purity, resolution, and smoothness are paramount (and you don't need tons of bass slam) the Final .3 electrostats are far superior to comparably priced Martin Logans. Naturally everything that applies to dipoles (set up, plenty of breathing room behind the speakers etc) applies.
I have been astonished...I'm hearing "inner detail" and micro-dynamics from CD recordings that rival what I've heard from LP played through tubes. Amazing.
http://www.audiorevolution.com/equip/final/index.html

 

[John A. Casler]

David:

Excellent description. I hope that everyone reads it twice, so that the message sinks in!

Hi Guys,

I find these statements interesting and yet as many Maggies as I have owned (4 pr) I have never encountered any instruction, set up material, or tech bulletins that confirm what you are suggesting.

Surely, we all know of the nulls to the left and right of all true dipoles, but this does not eliminate all of the reflected sound or even more than a small portion.

The "out of phase" reflections do not in any way cancel the "in phase" reflections since they are only out of phase to the original wave form at the time of creation and not after reflection.

I have never seen a dealer or owner of a pair of maggies, set their speakers up in any way with special attention to dampening reflected sound. Generally, just the opposite is true.

So what are we talking about here? I'm not contesting the great sound of Maggies, I am just curious as to your assertions.

Do either of you have (or have had) Magnepans and set them up in a manner to address these reflections, and if so, would you explain the method, motivation (since there seems to be no instructions to do so) and result?

I'm just curious.

Best regards,

John

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Hey John,

I guess I consider it common knowledge in a way...forget any particular brand of dipole design for a moment...

In all the audio books I've read, dipole/planer designs have always been promoted as minimizing side-wall reflections due to the null of sound created to the left and right. Most diagrams of this radiation pattern show a "figure 8" if you were looking down at the top of the speaker from above. The whole idea about dipole design, regardless of what brand or ribbons or electrostatic, is that in addition to the speed and purity of the ribbons (lack of crossover etc) you get a purer sound because these first generation-side-wall reflections are all but eliminated, leaving only the 2nd level reflections off the back/front walls which tend to be much less desctructive to the musical image.

Ok, so as you say we already all know about the null to the left/right (and even top/bottom) of the speaker. But I do want to stress that this radiation pattern *does* eliminate a large-portion of the reflected sound in comparison to a conventional direct-radiating speaker. That first-side-wall/ceiling/floor reflection is the most descructive to the sound (what THX tries to minimize at least from the ceiling and floor). These are exactly the reflections that dipoles don't just minimize or reduce...they practically eliminate them.

Of course, you now have sound heading back towards the front wall of your room behind the speakers...and that needs to be addressed. One way of addressing it is to move the speakers far out into the room. In fact, this is the typical way you see ribbons demonstrated (and this is the real reason why). Even better would be dampening the wall behind the speakers or both dampening *and* moving them out into the room.

If maggies don't talk about this or the need to dampen the front-wall behind the speakers if they aren't moved far enough into the room, then that's an indication of the shortcoming of their instruction manual and not of the dipole concept. Every salesperson I've spoken with selling Martin Logan went on at great length about the null that protected the listener from side-wall reflections and the figure-8 radiation pattern. Heck...it's all the guy practically talked about who sold me my Final .3 electrostats.

BTW, the latest edition of audio & video mag shows a new modular maggie HT system...and the reviewer clearly states that if the center channel is mounted on the TV and therefore is somewhat close to the front wall (behind the speaker) that Maggie suggests hanging a wall-fabric behind it to dampen any reflections that would be caused from its close proximity.

Another source for this concept is Genesis. Before their last bought of difficulty, The head desingers came to Overture (in DE) to demonstrate their reference speaker which has a dipole tweeter/midrange design. They went on at great length about the minimization of side-wall reflections but stated that because of the radiation pattern the speakers needed to be not too close to the front wall, which they recommended be dampended with sound-absorbing fabric. They also explained that it's this dipole/sound canceling design that makes low bass impossible with a pure dipole...because as the sound waves get larger the null starts to extend beyond the normal figure-8 pattern and starts to cancel the sound that's on-axis with the listener.

-dave