More SFM owned shows coming to BOD! (1 Viewer)

[jimmyjet]

Where did it say anywhere that MRFD was getting HD transfers or a Blu-Ray release. This is BOD/MOD release which most likely means season by season release on DVD-R's since all other BOD/MOD releases are done this way.

hi randy,

no one is discussing or suggesting that mrfd is currently in line for a blu-ray release.

 

[jimmyjet]

i found this interesting

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_films_in_the_public_domain_in_the_United_States

Judges, too, differ in their interpretation of the laws governing copyright protection. The United States is a “patchwork quilt” of inconsistent copyright rules in different federal judicial districts. The courts of one jurisdiction are not obliged to follow the decisions of another.[7] The U.S. Supreme Court (which could resolve those inconsistencies) very seldom decides copyright cases, and then only when an important principle is involved.


me - whatever the current ruling is, i dont think we have heard the last on this topic.

 

[jimmyjet]

one thing that i have found out, that probably many of you already know is - that there is the concept of adding to the pd product, such that your own product can qualify for copyright protection.

but i dont know for sure just what sorts of things qualify or dont qualify.

i will report anything that suggests some sort of legal question regarding this situation, irregardless of which side it supports.

my only goal is to discover just what can or cant be done.

and if the thomas estate wanted to put out the first 3 seasons, what if anything would they need to do, in order to qualify for a copyright ?

 

[Randy Korstick]

It can be copied because it is in Public Domain which means no owns the rights to it. If no one owns the rights to it then no one can sue anyone for releasing it no matter which copy they release. Just because you make a nice copy of something that you don't own it doesn't mean you now have the rights to it. It wasn't yours to begin with.

hi randy,

thanks for your post.

can you supply us with any sort of legal case that supports the argument that a restored hd film (that was from public domain) can literally be copied ?

surely some company who put in this work, would find the interest to challenge this in court, so that some ruling was given at some point in time ?

otherwise, how would anyone know that his work could not be protected ?

 

[DeWilson]

but i dont know for sure just what sorts of things qualify or dont qualify.

Anything that creates a NEW work using the PD elementsPD work is colorized, The adding of new opening and end credits, the reediting of the material, adding or changing music - all those things create a new work.
BUT only the new work is protected, the underlying PD work is not. Just making a new or upgraded transfer does not change the work.

 

[jimmyjet]

i have yet to find any legal case, or been informed about any legal case regarding this.

until i do, i am not convinced.

when someone gives a legal reason (i.e. copyright), then one must be able to provide some legal cases for which said reason can be verified.

here is something that i have been told --

Long ago I purchased video releases of "The Little Rascals" shows and, although the episodes themselves are all in the public domain, the particular versions I have are all copyright-protected by the addition of Leonard Maltin commentaries.The Thomas estate could, likewise, control the copying of the public domain "Make Room for Daddy" episodes by only releasing the episodes on DVDs or Blu-rays that have technical protection measures in place and that include with the episodes copyright-protectable elements. Any unauthorized copying of the DVDs or Blu-rays, then, would be violating the DMCA and infringing the copyrights of the protectable elements.

1) can anyone verify that these particular versions are copyright protected ?

2) and just what does this mean ?

3) in other words, does the copyright only pertain to the commentaries ? so if somehow, they can delete the commentary, they could still use the rest of it ? which would be a restored version, if say the new version had been enhanced to hd quality.

there simply has to be legal cases that set precedents. without them, no one knows for sure what the ruling of an action would be.

otherwise, we are making guesses or assumptions. i dont claim to have any answers.

but i do find it extremely odd to have a lot of pd movies transferred to hd, and at the same time no protection from anyone simply copying it, and using it.

common sense tells me that at least with the movies that were done, most of them have some way of protecting that conversion.

CASES, PLEASE !!

 

[Rob_Ray]

With the exception of maybe four selected shorts, THE LITTLE RASCALS are not in the public domain. The releases with the Maltin introductions are the complete run of the Hal Roach talkies and are fully copyright-protected with the exception of the few that slipped into public domain, including BEAR SHOOTERS.

 

[jimmyjet]

thanks bob,

at some point, i have little doubt that someone has attempted to argue that transferring to hd qualifies for copyright protection.

so we need to see what the court has said on this. and also look at the particular case or cases, to see what we can glean from them.

it is amazing to me that so many people can have definitive ideas on whether hd transfers have any protection, but as of yet, not one person can show me a case ruling that gives his opinion any legal stance !!

 

[jimmyjet]

sorry, i misread your name

that should have read

thanks rob

 

[Randy Korstick]

There are no cases because there is nothing that can be taken to court. Public Domain is owned by no one. You can only copyright it if you make changes to it like colorization or changing music. But only those changes are copyrighted not the original films. As already pointed out with films like Africa Screams some public domain films were restored in the late eighties and early nineties and their work was released by several other companies without compensation to the party responsible for the restoration. There were no legal cases because there was nothing to take to court because they are in public domain. That is why no one spends money restoring public domain properties anymore. The best hope for MRFD season 1-3 is if some decent looking 16mm prints still exists and that's if the Thomas estate will release them.

 

[LouA]

To get back on topic : does anyone have details as to how SFM will market these shows. I know that the Real Mc Coys are up for pre -order at Amazon, but I'm wondering if SFM will eventually set up their own site. I'm also wondering if they will sell only DVD-r's ,or will follow Warner Brother Archive in issuing replicated discs of the more popular titles. That strategy seems to work well for WB. With the Bowery Boys releases , Amazon sold DVD-r's while WBA sold the same releases in replicated form. Might this be true for the Real Mc Coys and MRFD as well? I would think that SFM might look at how WB has handled their on demand program since they were among the first , and among the most successful so far.

 

[Neil Brock]

To get back on topic : does anyone have details as to how SFM will market these shows. I know that the Real Mc Coys are up for pre -order at Amazon, but I'm wondering if SFM will eventually set up their own site. I'm also wondering if they will sell only DVD-r's ,or will follow Warner Brother Archive in issuing replicated discs of the more popular titles. That strategy seems to work well for WB. With the Bowery Boys releases , Amazon sold DVD-r's while WBA sold the same releases in replicated form. Might this be true for the Real Mc Coys and MRFD as well? I would think that SFM might look at how WB has handled their on demand program since they were among the first , and among the most successful so far.

Warner Brothers is a gigantic company, which SFM is not. Its comparing apples and oranges. We'll see when the Real McCoys hits the market but I would expect they will be DVDRs like most BOD releases have been.

 

[Neil Brock]

The only thing to consider is: 1. The Jean Hagen episodes have not been rebroadcast for 50 years 2. The Jean Hagen episodes have never been in the syndication package 3. A previous attempt to release the show contained no Jean Hagen episodes 4. Current plans by the distributor to release the show will not include the Jean Hagen episodes 5. Both Hagen and Thomas have publicly acknowledged their mutual dislike. 6. You won't be seeing any Jean Hagen episodes

We are having this huge argument over item 7, the show's PD status, while ignoring items 1-6. Giant waste of time.

 

[John Karras]

Warner Brothers is a gigantic company, which SFM is not. Its comparing apples and oranges. We'll see when the Real McCoys hits the market but I would expect they will be DVDRs like most BOD releases have been.

Also, the fact that SFM is even bothering directly with home video is an unexpected bonus. SFM is the last of the one-man, independent broadcast sales operations. SFM's previous entries into home video were via license deals with less-than-successful companies (remember Questar?). In the case of MRFD, a long-shunned syndication property, the only reason you're getting a home video release is because broadcast sales to ME-TV and COZI offset the cost of transfers. A BOD release to consumers is simply a sideline.

In the case of a show like this, who cares whether it's a pressed disc or a DVD-R. You'll be getting the show and that's all that matters.

 

[Jack P]

I agree, I have never been bothered by the pressed/DVD-R issue because when you collect as many DVD-Rs as I have that have had no problems it makes no difference. I can always make my own set of backup copies if I feel I need insurance against the quality of the disc used, but I've had more failure rates with old DVD-18s than I ever did with DVD-R.The SFM title I want to see most is the Joey Bishop Show because (1) it would represent the unstalling of the longest stalled title I know of on DVD after "Baretta" (2) we will finally see the first season with the original format (3) the second season should have its opening titles restored to all episodes.MRFD will be fine to upgrade the S6 released by Questar but that's a secondary priority for me compared to Joey.

 

[DeWilson]

The best hope for MRFD season 1-3 is if some decent looking 16mm prints still exists and that's if the Thomas estate will release them.

It's unlikely the Estate would release any prints/negatives they hold (and it's most likely they still hold 35mm elements on all 3 seasons)

The best hope is someone gathering up the 16mm prints going around from collectors (which is an odd thing because there ARE episodes going around that are NOT network prints! If there were never syndicated - where did THESE come from?!) do a clean transfer and put out a best of set ala Timeless.

 

[John Karras]

The SFM title I want to see most is the Joey Bishop Show

I understand that your wish is going to be granted, including the buried first season, complete with Marlo's pre-surgery proboscis.

 

[LeoA]

There is some work done with public domain material from time to time. It's the exception to the rule, but take much of season 1 of Petticoat Junction for an example. CBS still remastered it rather than just pulling the still attractive looking 16MM transfers for those particular episodes that were released by MPI in conjunction with the estate of Paul Henning. That's despite public domain DVD's of Petticoat Junction being available anywhere that sells public domain DVD's years before and which continue to this day (Just saw a set at a local convenience store of all places).

While I'd love to see it happen, I don't think we'll ever see officially sanctioned season releases for these early seasons. I'll feel extraordinary lucky, particularly that it's happening after the DVD boom has ended and over 50 years after this program left the air, just if SFM follow's through with their ambitions to release the final 8 seasons of this classic show. That represent a huge chunk of quality B&W classic tv programming that is sadly terribly underrepresented on DVD today.

That said, I don't see how those bullet points represent any sort of check mate here in regard to the situation with those first three seasons. The odds are stacked against it, but three seasons that are again seeing the light of day today for this show also hadn't been seen in just about as long.

And the previous attempt to release this show started off on the season that everyone is familiar with followed by the subsequent season. Irrelevant to the first three seasons. Only makes sense to start releasing what people most remember instead of episodes nobody really remembers. The two publishers probably didn't even try to license those episodes.

And there's no evidence that these seasons are being kept hidden because Hagen parted ways with this program leaving a bit of bad blood there that apparently was quickly forgotten by these two professionals.

And because SFM doesn't have any plans here doesn't mean it couldn't ever happen. Nothing wrong with being realistic, but such a thing can hardly be proclaimed with the certainty given in this thread.

As long as these episodes exist (Do we even know if all of them do?), there's a small chance of something positive happening there.

 

[jimmyjet]

i am glad that we still have the original 35mm film

i dont buy the argument about thomas and hagen keeping them from being re-issued.

whatever egos got bruised, there was no real permanent damage. danny had a successful run for 8 more years without hagen.

if i understand correctly, the thomas estate has the copyright for 4-11 ?

they could still restore and put out a complete series set. no one else could come close to competing with that product.

 

[jimmyjet]

with regard to 35mm film - can this easily be copied, as is, to digital media ?

if so, at least it would not be rotting away as time goes by.