More information coming to light regarding Toshiba's new "Blu-ray killer" (1 Viewer)

[Jari K]

Interesting thread (in AVS). I mean there are some guys saying (what we kinda expected), that the player adds too much "edge enhancement" and such, but then again some people are saying that "sharpens... without adding any distracting artifacts".

I would say, that we need professional reviews to fully compare this Toshiba to e.g. Oppo, etc.

One thing is still certain: Blu-ray, sleep well.

edit:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=230
I guess it´s using the "Zoran Vaddis 966" chip (more: post #166)... I´m not familiar with that, though.

edit2: Based on the thread, the player (US one, I assume) is actually NTSC and PAL. And you can easily get it to "region free". So this is all good news (I mean most of the US-players are "NTSC only").

"Region free via remote control:
- open the tray
- type 2403960
- press 9
- close the tray
- turn the player off and back on again"

 

[Kevin. W]

I think he reason Blu-Ray may not become mainstream is:

1. Profiles. How many chances does it take to get it right?
2. Price of hardware for the Blu-Ray players other than PS3. Upconverting players are just that much cheaper, and not everyone wants a PS3 as their entertainment hub.
3. Price of Software(which has been a problem for all formats). Other than sales at Amazon, etc, prices are ridiculous.

Hopefully I'm wrong because I crave HiDef, unfortunately its on Blu-Ray.

 

[Nick Martin]

In all honesty, I hated that Blu-ray won the war, because everything I've read and seen made HD-DVD better on every level, including price.

That being said, Blu-ray's here, so I'll embrace that.

 

[Scott-S]

That is a bold statement. LOL

I guess 50G is not better than 30G. I must have been asleep that day in math class.

Not to mention the transfer rates, ruggedness, future potential, etc....

From everything I read, the only thing HD-DVD had going for it was initial cost. This is simply becuase it was using existing technology instead of new tchnology like blu.

 

[Alfonso_M]

Really?

Everyone in "enthusiasts" forums like these that was serious about the future of packaged HI-DEF software should've supported HD_DVD, they not only had the best price to attract the masses but had the best weapon disguised in a "Trojan Horse", it was called the "Combo" disc. By now we could've easily been experiencing the fading away of DVD already.

Instead the "DownLoad" forces are steadily advancing while Blu sales are less than 8%, and here we are still talking about New DVD player hardware ...

What's that they say about reaping what you sowed..

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Scott,

HD-DVD had a hell of a lot going for it.

I have never made it a secret that although I loved Blu-ray I
was more partial towards HD-DVD. Though it didn't have the
50 gig capacity, at least it was network ready and did just about
everything it took Blu-ray almost two years to implement into
their systems. Since the inception of the format I have been forced
to buy two BD players since the originals were not profile 2 ready. Most
people who own original standalone players (outside of PS3) will be
forced to do the same as well.

I'm not bashing Blu-ray by any means, but certainly someone here
will take my words out of context and post otherwise somewhere else.
I have grown to enjoy and embrace Blu-ray. I just don't particularly
enjoy reading that all HD-DVD had going for it was its initial cost.
Speaking of which, there are many of us here that wish the BD camp
would further lower the prices of their players. I would love to see
this format kick into fourth gear for the holiday season.

 

[Scott-S]

Alfonso;

In this case, I am super dooper glad HD-DVD failed. Combo discs are just as bad as double sided dvds. I think that combo discs help HD-dvd lose.


Ron;

You are correct in the fact that Blu-Ray was a little rushed (had to get to market before they were ready) and has taken a while to stablize. The only thing I would mention is that Blu-Ray is a new technology so it seems fair that it might take longer to get running smooth. Being first doesnt mean better.

 

[Alfonso_M]

Here using your own words to show how bias you are..

You are willing to cut all kinds of slack to Blu as "New Technology" but can't and couldn't possibly ever considered the same for the HD-DVD Combo disk...

Post like yours are why I don't believe 80% of what I read in these forums any longer....at any level!!!!!

Poster like you have shattered the confidence in the opinions expressed around these and other forums, and is plain as day light for anyone to see....

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Listen guys...

The format war is over.

We could talk all day about what could have been, what should
have been...but in the end we should be grateful we have one format.

Besides, this forum has already made a mission statement that
we are moving forward, eliminating format war discussions.

To get back to the topic at hand, let's discuss Blu-ray and the affect
that this new Toshiba upconverting player will have on it (which
seems to be no affect at all).

 

[Nick Martin]

Not owning either format means that during that war, I had no stake in either side. I just researched and experienced what each had to offer thankfully without paying a cent, and HD-DVD, using that existing technology that had already been proven to be reliable unlike the newer, unproven Blu-ray, looked superior to me.

But that's me.

Looking at the many initial disc reviews of each format and how lackluster the Blu-ray titles were in comparison, in addition to seeing some of the players in action, also swung me toward HD-DVD.

But as I said, it lost, Blu-ray won, and that's that. I'll embrace this format wholeheartedly when I can afford to. If all pans out, that will be within the next month or so.

One more thing, if that sense of 'mine's better than yours...and yours plain stinks loser' mentality was what the format war was all about when discussed on forums like this, I'm glad I had nothing to do with it. It's petty, and I have nothing but contempt for that kind of nonsense.

But that's me.

 

[Cees Alons]

And while we're still a bit in a "war" mood (although it seriously has to stop now), here's another thought:


Don't follow those links to AVS too readily, because you may get stuck there.
That's true: they don't allow links to our forum, even actively remove them from posts! So you might not be able to come back here. We would hate that.


I must say I was very surprised to learn this, but I have been assured it's a fact.
(Well, except the "get stuck" part.

)

(End of war-talk, start of normal HTF talk.)


Cees

 

[Jari K]

Really? Now that´s weird.. And sad.

In any case, this new Toshiba seems to be a lot of noise over nothing (well, very little). I mean you´re better off with e.g. several years old Oppo, let alone quality Blu-ray-players that can...

a) Play also SD DVDs and do quality upscaling (e.g. with PS3 excellent)
b) Play Blu-ray-discs.

Adding some artificial "edge enhancement" is pretty much what we all should avoid here (hence e.g. recent DNR, EE discussions). You can´t make "Nissan" (and I have one!) to look "Ferrari", not even with some phony custom-job.

To me: Case closed.

 

[Marko Berg]

It seems to me that there are two different approaches to the discussion of these players. One, those who are HD capable already won't have any use for them. Two, people are wondering if they (or similar and similarly marketed products) will hurt or slow down adoption of Blu-Ray.

I think the people in the first group should not be so quick to dismiss Toshiba's rather clever marketing idea. For the average Joe, Blu-Ray may just be starting to be interesting enough to possibly invest in, in terms of software selection and affordability of hardware. I'm sure that the Christmas season will drive Blu-Ray adoption.

However, Blu-Ray is currently unable to fulfill many of the promises the format holds. This will change in the future, but at the moment the Toshiba players are certainly appealing to some people. And those people will not be in any hurry to adopt Blu-Ray once they've invested in a new XDE DVD player.

 

[Marko Berg]

Jari, to you the case may be closed, but to a lot of people the XDE is an easy solution to possibly make their SD DVDs look better.

It's actually not different from people spinning SD DVDs in their computer drives, using ffdshow or similar software to tweak the picture (yes, adding edge enhancement!), and outputting the result to a front projector. Those people call themselves enthusiasts who want the best possible quality from their SD DVDs. It's not difficult to understand that the average Joe would want to do the same, with less effort.

 

[Jari K]

Yes, that´s why I said "for me".

I think one important point here is, that will this "additional EE" (and some other "player tweaks") "make their SD DVDs look better" or actually just "worse" (unnatural "video look", etc)? Additional sharpness is not always = better (especially when the player provides that "additional sharpness" - it´s not "in the disc/transfer").

So I guess a whole lot of this depends on the viewer. Is something actually "better" vs some other player is not very "black & white"-issue. Comments from the forums might mean very little, especially in the world of magical upscaling/anti-BD (let´s face it, some of the hardcore HD DVD supporters moved "back to DVD")... That´s why I kinda want to read a proper - and non-biased reviews and such.

I don´t need any more "EE" or some fancy "tweaks" from the menu. I just want quality upscaling (which I already have, I have PS3 and Toshiba).

 

[MarkHastings]

I really don't believe that the average Joe cares enough about that. The average Joe is going to invest in Blu-Ray because HD is the rage and since the average Joe tends to not have a lot of money for purchases, will not want to buy another DVD player; especially one that is expensive - i.e. you can buy upscaling DVD players at Costco/BJ's for real cheap - granted they probably don't upscale as well, but J6P doesn't care because he either can't tell the difference or won't want to spend the money for something that isn't considered "The Best" (meaning HD is "The Best")

Also the fact that Blu-Ray can also play SD-DVD's, the average Joe (who is unaware of the lack luster upscaling performance of SD-DVD) will want to get a Blu-Ray player because he either:

A) Only has one HDMI input on his TV
B) Doesn't want (or have space for) 2 players
C) Doesn't want to pay for all the cabling involved in hooking up two players.

etc. etc.


XDE is really for the enthusiast or someone who isn't ready for Blu-Ray and needs a new SD-DVD player. I really can't see J6P having much interest in this player.

And FYI: I'm not basing the above on my knowledge, I'm basing it on what I tend to hear from family members, friends, and others.

 

[Nick Martin]

I do the EXACT same thing, only I output to my TV.

I don't even need to use the ffdshow's sharpening technique as the resolution itself is better than all my stand-alone DVD players.

Problem is simplifying the whole method of using the TV, and for me the solution lies in a wireless mouse. THAT would make this so much easier that I'd use my computer output more often.

 

[Nick Martin]

I'm confused, is an 'average Joe' or a 'Joe 6 pack' someone who:

1. Isn't wealthy enough to afford these things

2. Isn't educated enough on the whole SD-HD-BR-DVD issue

3. Both

?

I certainly fall into number 1 but know all about them so I can't be in number 2.

Trying to figure out if I am considered to me beneath some of the people here, if it's a status / elitist issue.

 

[Scott-S]

Nicholas; My feeling is that J6P is about level of knowledge and buying habits more than about the ability to buy.

So you fit in here just fine.

The one thing about the Edge Enhancing player is that you have to already have a HD tv to use it. So, in my book, if you have already bought the biggest ticket item, why not spent $100 more (than the Toshiba player) to get a profile 1.1 BD player? They don't have to get a profile 2 player. After all the toshiba isn't profile 2 either, so they must not want the online stuff anyway.

 

[RickER]

To me Joe6P just watched movies. he doesnt give a damn about presentation. He doesnt care if its widescreen, or even in 5.1 surround. You know how many people dont have that yet? He wants a color movie that shouldnt be any older than six months. He wants to kill 2 hours. If the movie is any good (and thats optional, by the way) all the better, cause he might buy it at Wal-Mart when it hits $3.99...maybe. To me, that is what Joe Six Pack is.

This is our hobby, we dont watch movies to kill time. Not all the time anyway. We watch movies for the same reason you might drink fine wine.