More dead/fried Tumults (1 Viewer)

[Anthony_Gomez]

That means a Tumult should take a peak (not RMS) power of 2262.74W.

this means that the K2 bridged can put out 3535.525watts.

 

[Seth_L]

this means that the K2 bridged can put out 3535.525watts.

That's not in question Tony. I'd love to know how much power I can safely apply to my Tumult when I get it. Obviously, 2500W is too much, but it seems that a 1600W RMS amp is also too much. So I want to know how much power I can put on the driver for a sustained period of time. There are bass notes that last a lot longer than 1 second in movies, so I'd like a practical/"hands on" value.

Seth

 

[Kyle Richardson]

IEC 268-5 is not a Prms number or a Pmax max number, it is a defined set of procedures to test the thermal capabilities of a driver. As I understand it, you can base a Prms or Pmax spec on this standard (somebody correct me if I'm wrong).

Adire has the spec listed at Pmax which is the maximum power the driver can handle, not an RMS number. No, an RMS spec is not listed, but anything under Pmax with no peaks occuring over the Pmax figure for an extended period of time should be just fine.

There is not a sustained RMS rating on the sub. I'd like to see one. Considering Dan recommended 1000+ watt amps to drive it... I would assume (perhaps incorrectly) that a Tumult should be able to withstand sustained (longer than 1 second) use of 1000+ watts.

Yes, Dan has recommended 1000+ watts amps to drive it which is just fine since as long as it is under Pmax and has no sustained peaks are over Pmax.

This is not unique to the Tumult or any other driver, plain and simple, do not feed a driver more than the maximum power handling specified.

 

[Marshall Joyner]

"What is a safe "max" RMS value for an amp to be connected to a Tumult? 800W? 1000W? 1200W?
Seth "

Depends on enclosure and application (whos on 1st)

...ok...well..lets logic this out.
You already claim to understand that IEC 268-5 is one second limited which should lead you to believe its not a good RMS rating but more of a MAX rating..still Adire Audio's website says PMax wich plainly puts the guess work to rest...its max...absolute max...

Some companies do say RMS when referencing IEC268-5 which is missleading...like this one...
Ex: http://www.accordioninfo.com/speakers.html
Recommended amplifier 500W rms; Short-term applicable
power(1 second) 1000W rms (IEC 268-5)


But Adire is clearly stated as.... PMAX Which to us means MAX POWER..DAS IT...ABSOLUTE...don't give her no more don't matter what the application is... and PER IEC 268-5 rating...only 1600w one second at a time...

To me its pretty clear....Hope this helps you understand..
Whatever...i'm just a pee-on....

 

[Brian Bunge]

Well, the K2 bridged is more than safe. It's a matter of how high you turn up the volume. I've run a single channel of the K2 into each of my ACI SV12's and have never hurt them. I don't think their power handling is stated anywhere near 800W. Of course, I've never used an LT circuit in conjunction with them either.

 

[Kyle Richardson]

Brian, exactly! You can hook up a 10,000 watt amp to it as long as it doesnt put out more than the Pmax to the driver.

 

[Seth_L]

But Adire is clearly stated as.... PMAX Which to us means MAX POWER..DAS IT...ABSOLUTE...don't give her no more don't matter what the application is... and PER IEC 268-5 rating...only 1600w one second at a time...

If you're interpretation is correct that means an 1131.37W RMS amp could fry a Tumult in just over 1 second.

Seth

 

[Seth_L]

Brian, exactly! You can hook up a 10,000 watt amp to it as long as it doesnt put out more than the Pmax to the driver.

Kyle,

I don't think anyone is trying to dispute that. However, if the driver doesn't give any audible signs that it's getting too much power before it fries that is a very dangerous scenario. There's no "warning: danger to manifold" indicator on the driver to tell you it's getting too much power. Considering this you'd be much better getting an amp that can not deliver more power to the Tumult than it can safely use in a continuous fashion.

A lot of pro amps have circuitry to soften clipping I would think that if a Tumult can only sustain 800W RMS (continuous) that a 800W pro amp with soft clipping capability would be your safest bet on driving one without damaging it.

Seth

 

[Marshall Joyner]

"If you're interpretation is correct that means an 1131.37W RMS amp could fry a Tumult in just over 1 second.

Seth"

*Bling* you said RMS so.. Sure...if it maxes at 1600w or above and you played it maxed for over a second.....but...

you can fry it with a 500watt amp if you don't know what you doin.... (enclosure/ application/ power)
[who's on first]

Thats the difference in DIY and consumer products...some DIY=better know what you doin...or you can learn the hard way...and either figure it out eventually or get totally discouraged from it.

Either way...have fun...avoid smoke...

 

[Anthony_Gomez]

Seth, it seems to me like you should just invest in another driver. Here are a few of my favorites that you might like

www.pyle.com
www.superdupersubwoofers.com
www.1billionwattsubs.com
www.lottachromewoofs.com
www.ultrabooomsubs.com
www.bluelightspecial200dbsubs.com

Those are the absolute best there are out there! Good luck!

 

[Seth_L]

Power Handling
Power handling of Brahma is rated at 1600W continuous, 4800W peak. This was rated with the IEC 268-5 ratings method, which uses a band-limited test signal with a 6 dB crest factor. The subwoofer is powered with a signal meeting the IEC 268-5 criteria for 2 hours, with less than 3dB of compression measured over that duration. The 1600W rating is NOT a steady-state sinewave rating!

Note that the power handling is a THERMAL power handling rating! It is NOT a guarantee, guideline, or recommendation on the amount of power actually needed or that can be mechanically handled in a given box. The actual power required depends upon the application, and the mechanical power handling is heavily dependent upon the box used. When in doubt, it’s best to err on the low side. Overpowering drivers is the surest way to kill them!

This is from the Brahma's manual. A signal that complies with IEC 268-5 is pink noise.

One might mistakenly assume that because the 10", 12", and 15" Brahma are rated 1600W RMS a 15" Tumult 1600W rating is also an RMS continuous rating. Clearly this isn't the case.

Seth

 

[Seth_L]

Seth, it seems to me like you should just invest in another driver. Here are a few of my favorites that you might like

www.pyle.com
www.superdupersubwoofers.com
www.1billionwattsubs.com
www.lottachromewoofs.com
www.ultrabooomsubs.com
www.bluelightspecial200dbsubs.com

Those are the absolute best there are out there! Good luck!

Thanks for your sarcasm, but it's not needed. I'm not the one who fried my sub. Perhaps you should be mocking those people who have. Judging from the number of people who've managed to fry their Tumults this is an issue. Adire has not given us a 2 hour "continuous" power rating for a Tumult like they have with the Brahma. People are running with the only number they have and that's why they're damaging their subs. Judging from the Brahma's spec It seems that the Tumult is a 500W RMS sub, not quite the 1600W monster people thought.

Seth

 

[Dave Crigna]

Hey Tony,
You forgot to recommend rockwood and kenford. Man, am I jealous I want to try and fry my tumult as well. It is alittle disapponting though, that the tumult vc will not sustain enough power rms to reach its full linear xmax potential. It may for other applications but not for the sealed one I plan on using ( again take it with a grain of salt, this is using unibox with 1600rms applied ). I just might have to go the dual pr path with only 1000 rms applied, What will I do with all that extra output . OF COURSE I STILL DON'T HAVE MINE TO PLAY WITH YET. :frowning: Looks like it is time to start coming up with a new vc technology/material to susatin these killer xmax machines. It would be interesting to see how much more this woulddrive up the cost.

 

[Marshall Joyner]

nope Seth..they are monsters...

The fact that you didn't realize the difference in the specs of the Brahma vs. Tumult till now is not Adire's fault..

It seems like you don't like them already and you don't even have one.

So, whatever....have fun....sick of this.

 

[Patrick Sun]

For some reason, whenever I see this topic, I think of "Fried Green Tumults".

 

[Seth_L]

nope Seth..they are monsters...

The fact that you didn't realize the difference in the specs of the Brahma vs. Tumult till now is not Adire's fault..

It seems like you don't like them already and you don't even have one.

So, whatever....have fun....sick of this.

Marshall,

I realized there was a difference between the Tumult and the Brahma. There's quite a bit of difference. Mainly every parameter. All I want is a realistic electrical/thermal RMS continuous (2 hour) power rating for the Tumult.

I would be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed in 2 things.
1) I don't have my Tumult yet
2) The Tumult apparently doesn't have as robust of a motor as a Brahma.

Seth

 

[Chris Tsutsui]

I wonder if Adire should design a Tumult with dual 4ohm VCs or one with a higher power handling.

That's $500 people are frying which doesn't exactly look good to potential buyers. I always thought it was "SAFE" to power a sub with a higher power amp, but I guess the Tumult proves otherwise. Defend the Tumult all you want, I still think the fryed VCs are an "issue".

At least my tempest lets me know when I'm getting close to frying a VC because it begins to fart and bark at me.

 

[MichaelAngelo]

:star:

 

[Danny Richie]

Sad story for sure but I can't help but think, what was that guy thinking?

I personally like my low end response to blend with my main speakers as seamless as possible. This means matching the SPL as well.

Why would anyone need that much bass output?

If you really need 140 to 150db from a single woofer look here: http://www.bassmaxx.com/home.html

Now this is not what I would put in my house.

Don't you guys realize how much higher the distortion level is on any woofer that is being forced to produce large exertions compared to one that is barely moving?

Do you guys realize the force the air can be when trying to move large quantities of it really fast with one diaphragm?

You guys must not have realized yet just how much cleaner bass can be if you would use multiple drivers and not play them so hard.

Secondly, are you guys forgetting about the available power to those amps you are talking about.

Those amps are not going to produce that kind of output. They are to limited by the available power.

If I remember correctly there is only about 2,400 watts of power available from a 110 volt 20 amp circuit that is found in an average home.

Most solid state amps are about 50 to 60% efficient. This means that the most these high power amps can deliver is about 1,200 to 1,400 watts of power regardless of their rated output.

 

[Brett DiMichele]

Danny,

What's available to my sub amp that I run on a 30 amp
220V circuit?