Monk Season 3.5 (now with Natalie, no mo' Sharona) ongoing thread (1 Viewer)

[Inspector Hammer!]

I loved last nights episode! I've been waiting awhile to see Adrian make some form of progress with his problems, and he made pretty significant progress last night, I believe.

When he got buried alive, I thought he was going to lose it big time! But he didn't, he sort of went into this hypnotic state and Trudy was talking him down and keeping him calm. And him closing her office was major IMO.

I think that Adrian felt some sort of connection with the asian guy he spoke to at the temple, he seemed to have that look on his face like this guy may be able to help more than his psychiatrist can. I think that played into his ordeal at the cemetary. Him explaining the case to Trudy was sort of moving in a way, and quite unexpected.

I also liked the way Natalie was pressing him for her expenses to be paid, this shows that she's real, has finacial problems and needs restitution, even though i'm sure she cares about Adrian.

 

[MattGentry]

The candle wax was a really bad miss. My mom picked it up, and she hardly pays attention to the TV.

And I too thought Adrian was going to start panicking ('though, I knew something was going to happen when he brought out his weapon - the candle), but was pleasantly surprised when he began to think of Trudy. A very good scene...

 

[Steve...O]

After 4 Natalie episodes I have very mixed feelings...

I think the Natalie character is a good one and I like the spunk she brings. However either the writing has gone way downhill or the writers have given up any pretext of offering a "mystery" component to the show and have instead opted to highlight Monk's OCD full time for laughs. The plots have become razor thin in some cases.

I saw some signs of returning to form in the Vegas episode with a fairly clever mystery, but we were also subjected to scenes of Stottlemeyer doing karaoke and a bizarre subplot of Lt. Dipstick gambling his savings away. Not to mention yet another Sharona reference.

At its peak, Monk was one of the most innovative and clever shows on TV; it is dangerously close to becoming a self parody. Hopefully season 4 can restore the brilliance that Seasons 1 and 2 had.

Steve

 

[Inspector Hammer!]

I have to disagree, Steve, I found this weeks episode to be an exemplary Monk episode.

Natalie can be a bit hard on Adrian, but with each episode i'm liking her more and more. It's very plausable that Adrian would still be talking about Sharona, he's so used to the routine's they had worked out, and since he feels uncomfortable with change, it's quite natural that he would say what he said to Natalie.

The bits with Stottlemeyer were hilarious and the further info about Natalie was pleasing, regarding her past gambling problem and that she left Las Vegas for that reason
, good charactor development there.

Regarding the reliance on his OCD for laughs, they didn't do it anymore often than they usually do, and the reveal of the way the crime went down intercut with Adrian playing a rather fast paced hand(s) of blackjack was funny.

A great episode IMO.

 

[Steve...O]

Mr. Monk & the Election....

For the most part, a huge improvement in writing for this episode. There were some great moments of interaction between Monk and Dr. Kruger's other patient. Some genuine laugh out loud moments. Natalie's feelings for her late husband also provided some good moments.

My complaint on the lack of mystery still stands though. There was none in this episode because the "solution" paper stuck in copy machine
was so obvious from the opening scene that I had it figured out before the opening theme song. The misspelled "Teege" was plainly visible in the opening scene which gave that plot point away as well.

Once the "why" was figured out, the "who" was very simple as well.

On the whole however, I'll give this a thumbs up as it has given me renewed hope for Season 4.

Steve

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

Well, there are two kinds of "mysteries" typical of TV: Whodunnits, and "how-they-gonna-catch'ems". Murder She Wrote was a classic Agatha Christie-style whodunnit. Columbo turned the formula on its head. We saw the crime, and the fun of the show was seeing how Columbo outsmarted the bad guy (or gal) and figured out what had happened and how to make the guilty pay. Both kinds of story are perfectly valid.

As for spotting the clues - part of the bargain that the writers of a whodunnit make with the viewer is that the clues will be there. It is a matter of playing fair with the audience. It would have been a cheat if they hadn't made the misspelled sign visible. Some people notice things like like, some don't.

I think that one of the reasons that Monk has become so popular is that it can appeal to fans of both type of show. Folks who want to figure out the mystery can enjoy it, those who don't care about figuring it out for themselves can enjoy the character interaction, the comedy and the process the characters go through in solving the puzzle. Sometimes the journey is as important as the destination.

Monk was never a pure Murder She Wrote mystery in the classic mold - it was always a kind of hybrid and I have no problem with its leaning more towards one side for a time, especially in establishing a character like Natalie, so much more interesting than, er, whatzername.

Regards,

Joe

 

[Inspector Hammer!]

Bingo, Joseph!

IMO, with the exception of Sherona's departure, the show has not changed it's basic formula one bit since the shows debut. In short, the show has not yet "jumped the shark" as the saying goes, in fact, it's nowhere near the water!

As for Natalie, i've already come to really like her a lot. The whole thing when she confessed to Adrian about her husband was really sad. She's opening up to him more and more and showing that she is much more vulnerable than Sherona was, disproving the idea that the show brought in "yet another single mom like Sherona" just to keep the same shtick going, they are out to develope her as her own person and I really like that.

Plus, you knew this was coming , I think she's really cute, she's got that petite thing going on that I just have always loved.

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

I was just kidding about Sharona being forgotten, but I really do think that Natalie is not only a terrific new character but one who will gradually change the show a bit. I think that her relationship with Adrian is going to be more intimate than Sharona's was, since they have both lost a spouse under somewhat mysterious circumstances. I suspect (and frankly hope) that they'll solve the murder of Adrian's wife either this season or next. You really can't sustain a mystery like that beyond a certain point in a series or it just becomes annoying. (The exception is if the mystery is the point of the show, as in The Fugitive) I've lost track of Crossing Jordan (despite having a serious crush on Jill Hennesy) because the whole "mother's murder" thing was just getting too convoluted and too stretched out. (See also most of the alien conspiracy in The X-Files.)

It isn't like solving Trudi's murder would change the premise of the show (whereas Adrian's getting his job on the force back really would.) Neither would his (eventually) getting romantically involved with Natalie. He's already taken a few baby steps in that direction, like closing Trudi's old office.

When talking about how he plotted Babylon 5 J. Michael Straczynski stressed that he never allowed a major mystery to hang around for much more than one season. So what happened to Jeffery Sinclair at the Battle of the Line and why the Minbari surrendered to the Humans when they were about to win the war were mysteries introduced in the pilot, then solved a few episodes into season 2. His other rule was that you don't solve one mystery before you introduce another one. So before the first season ended he had introduced a number of new mysteries that would be pursued over the subsequent seasons.

Obviously his "one season" rule need not apply to other shows, but I think he's right that you can only keep some stories going for so long, and I think the clock is running on Trudi's murder.

So far the change on Monk is making me think of some of the changes on M*A*S*H. Sharona was more of a character than Frank Burns or Col. Blake, but she shared with them a tendency to function more as a comedic device than an actual person in a lot of stories. Charles Emerson Winchester and Col. Potter were both more rounded characters - and also more formidable foils for Pierce and Hunnicutt than the hapless Burns and the doormat Blake. In doing so they forced Pierce and Hunnicutt to raise the level of their schtick as well. As a result the show, which some had feared would collapse with every major cast change, actually got better.

I think Natalie could be the Charles or Col. Potter of Monk.

Regards,

Joe

 

[Inspector Hammer!]

'Mr Monk and the Kid'

****SPOILERS BELOW****

(Still wiping tears away and blowing nose) OMG! Does anyone STILL think the show is losing steam after this one?

I missed it last night, however I recorded it onto a disc and just finished watchng it. This week's mystery took a back seat in an episode that showcased Adrian in a role I never would have thought possible...as a father. I was so incredibly moved by this episode I can't even tell you, it broke my heart. :frowning:

Adrian made a leap of faith so large, that it can only be compared to the grand canyon! His willingness to accept Tommy as his own child for the rest of his life...I just couldn't believe my ears and eyes!

It's been a LOOOONGG time since any tv series has made me shed a tear, and it happend when Adrian had Tommy on his lap and was reading him the stories, simultaniously revealing the mystery within a storybook style sequence that was nothing short of miraculous! I didn't even realize what was happening at first because I was swept up in the moment.

Also, Natalie cemented herself as a more than worthy successor to Sherona, just by her caring attitude toward Adrian. The whole time Adrian was with Tommy, I kept thinking about how Trudy would have reacted to this, and even though I knew she was dead, it almost felt like Adrian had a complete family. I suppose having her picture on the wall behind them during the story sequence had something to do with that, it worked on my sub-concious big time!

Even Adrian's OCD came and went a couple of times! He allowed Tommy to knock things over and mess up his apartment, sort of, with the building blocks, playing with that clear jar with Tommy's face in one end and Adrian's in the other...sharing the same air and finally, and most surprising of all,...rolling around ON THE GROUND with Tommy!

This was IMO, by far, the best episode of this past season, and as far as Adrian's concerned, of the series thus far. Even though he finally realized he wasn't ready for a child, he showed us in this stellar episode that one day perhaps, he could be a wonderful father. I didn't see this one coming, folks.

Final word's, Tony Shaloub should get an Emmy nod for this one. Laugh out loud funny, and touching, this show is deepening and I can't wait to see what happens next!

 

[Randy Tennison]

To requote myself from back in September, I love seeing character in Monk, rather than just the crime solving robot. Seeing him play with Tommy was so wonderful. We all want to root for him to get better, and have a great life, because he's such a wonderful character.

This series is one of the best on TV!

 

[CaptDS9E]

Excellent episode last night. When Monk called 911 about the diaper changing i couldnt stop laughing. Bring back Tommy

capt

 

[Brent Hutto]

Oh the humanity...He's making more!

 

[Keith I]

When you see Natalie wipe away tears at the end (you can even see her wiping her eyes even more as she ends up in the background), one wonders if they were real tears and the moment just caught up to her.

This was THE best character-driven episode so far, in my opinion. The shot where they show Tommy sleeping in Adrian's lap with Trudy's picture on the wall behind as if she's watching them was THE moment for me, of any show of any season. Forget the crime; I actually didn't care about it.

The piano song that plays at the end also helps emotionally and I like how they continued playing it during the credits (although I could do without the annoying voiceover and Monk recap during the credits) which made it end on a bittersweet note. If that was Jeff Beal's composition, bravo to him. Forget Newman's theme (sorry, I personally don't like this version).

Monk's "waaahh ... waaaahhhh" on 911 was hilarious! "No, that was me."
-

 

[Inspector Hammer!]

Dispatcher...
"Is it #1 or #2?"

Adrian...
"It's #1. No, it's #2. It's #3!"



Another one that had me going was when Adrian got the call from Julie informing him that she spilled some juice on his rug. Given the dangerous circumstances that surrounded this scene (the money drop, a man's life was in Adrian's hands and time was of the esscence), what does Adrian say to her?...

Adrian...
"Listen to me VERY carefully... their are cleaning supplies in the cabinet arranged alphabetically and go from the highest to the lowest, get some bleach and some distilled DISTILLED water..."

 

[Inspector Hammer!]

Keith,
regarding Natalie wiping her tears, I noticed that too and the same thing occured to me. She was partially obscured by Adrian and Tommy's new adoptive parents, she wasn't really the focal point of that shot, which leads to the conclusion that the actress was actually shedding a tear or two because the scene got to her.

If she was acting, she's damn good!

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

When they're shooting (as they usually do) master (wide shot), close-up, close-up, coverage, the actors have to perform the same actions on the same lines in all versions or risk creating continuity problems, and they rarely know where in the frame they are going to appear. And they never know which shots or combination of takes are going to be used by the director and the editor in the final assembled episode. So there isn't much room for spontaneous gestures. I think what we all saw there was acting - because a good actor always acts even when odds are the audience will be focusing elsewhere. (The real talent consists in staying in the scene and listening when the other actor has all the lines and "business", and staying in character when you have nothing specifc to do for long stretches - especially for stage actors who have to literaly sit there in full view of several hundred people while the audience may be focused on two other having an argument on the opposite side of the stage.)

All together a terrific episode.

Regards,

Joe

 

[Inspector Hammer!]

I know all of that, Joseph, it was probably just because I was so into it that I said that.

Continuity errors are often quite funny to spot, like the one in Back to the Future with principal Strickland. After Marty's over-exuberant performance at the Enchantment Under the Sea dance in 1955, their is a wide shot of the dance floor with everyone just standing their dumbfounded and off to the left, you see Strickland just bringing his hands down from his ears after covering them. Then they cut to Marty and then back to a medium shot of Strickland ONCE AGAIN bringing his hands down from his ears.

Then again though, if she were one of those actresses that can easily cry at will, technically she was indeed crying in each take. Her only concern then would be to hit her mark and turn away the same way each time.

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

Oh yeah. Drinks magically emptying and refilling themselves, cigarettes and cigars becoming shorter and longer and shorter again, ties untying and retying themselves. (And, in The Usual Suspects, the endless inhale and the dragon exhale, and the magic disappearing jet engines.) Perhaps the champion of contiuity - well, "errors" isn't the right word, let's say "problems" - may be Jagged Edge. They decided to tighten up the storytelling in act three by compressing what had been a two day opening statement by Teddy Barnes into a single day, dropping transition scenes and shots outside the courtroom. Luckily it was a very dramatic scene so that move viewers never notice Glenn Close's suit changing several times in the course of a single scene.

Regards,

Joe

 

[Brian Kidd]

I think my wife and I must be the only ones who can't stand the new MONK episodes. We finally cancelled our season pass o TiVo. I think Schram and Shaloub had such chemistry that replacing her with another spunky single mom character is a cop out. The new character just doesn't have, well, character. Sharona was an interesting person on her own. Not so Natalie. It's too bad. MONK was one of the few shows that we liked to watch together.

 

[Inspector Hammer!]

Brian,
I agree, it would have been a cop out if Natalie were nothing more than a clone charactor of Sharona with nothing more to offer. However this isn't the case with Natalie, sure she is a single mom like Sharona but that is the only thing they share, she is proving week after week to be her own person and the writing for her has been great so far IMO.

Let me ask you, Brian, how many of the new episodes were you able to see? I just want to make sure you've given it a fair shake before bailing. Sharona's departure was in no way a torpedo blow to the show, in fact it's barely a scratch, again IMO.

Don't get me wrong, I loved Bitty, she was great (and hot), but to me the show did not depend on her being there, she was only Adrian's assistant to provide a comic spoil for him and to that degree she succeeded, but she wasn't indespensable.

As for the show as a whole, it's still very funny, the writing and acting are still strong (Friday's season finale proved that without a doubt) and Adrian is making some progress with his problems, it's all good stuff.

I hope you give it one more chance, but if you decide to stop that's up to you, I just hate to see a fan of this great show quit when things are really just heating up.