MGM MOD: Fox Bows On Demand MGM Movies for Retailers (1 Viewer)

[Colin McGuigan]

Originally Posted by Thomas T
I find it offensive because it somehow infers that they think the rest of us are intellectually incapable of understanding the point they've made because they give it over and over and over and over in the hopes of one of us goes, "Duh! You're right. I'm not going to buy anymore MOD titles. How can I have been so stupid!"

Well that inference is entirely yours and it's poor form to attribute meanings to people's words when those meanings were neither explicit nor implicit. As has been stated, the points made to date in this thread have not veered off topic and certainly haven't been aimed at criticising any individual's personal choices.

BTW, since you raised the subject of being offensive, terms such as "obsessives" and "infecting threads" is getting pretty near the knuckle.

 

[Van594]

I agree with the comment about giving the pissing and moaning MOD hater crowd their own thread so they can just listen to each other *itch. When everything is download only someday they can keep that in the same thread too..lol. Just tired of all the negative vibes and the repeating of the same tired complaint. The world is moving on without you people...deal with it. Would I like the old days again...sure...but not going to happen.

 

[Jobla]

Don't like MODs? Don't buy 'em!

We're not living in a perfect world, or a perfect economy either. There are certain vintage studio titles that do not appear to be sure bets for Blu Ray. The MOD programs have rescued plenty of obscurities from the vaults, which is what I wish Blu Ray was doing. I'm also not in the market for such things as streaming and downloading, so MOD's still allow me to posess a hard copy of what I want, usually presented in anamorphic widescreen.

 

[cineMANIAC]

There are three new cult labels about to spring into action, in addition to existing ones like Shout!, Synapse, Blue Underground and others who are doing amazing work right now. If obscurities are your thing, these are the people you should be excited about. SUPPORT THE LITTLE GUYS, SCREW THE STUDIOS.

 

[Paul Penna]

Originally Posted by Livius
It's worth bearing in mind that programs such as this are in their own way helping that audience dwindle even faster. Older titles released through MOD programs are necessarily being seen by even fewer people than ever. The age of a movie is certainly a factor influencing its popularity - but that's by no means the whole story. The real issue is exposure. I'd wager that most of us who post here grew up in an era when it was not uncommon to be regularly exposed to films of all vintages via the TV. For a variety of reasons, though largely due to the fragmentation of mainstream media, this kind of availability is becoming increasingly rare. Standard retail DVD, while never a perfect replacement, did help staunch the leakage a little based on affordability, availability etc - but MOD narrows that potential audience down dramatically. Regular DVDs always had the potential to be bought blind for the reasons stated above - even among hardened film fans that's certainly not the case with $20 a pop MOD discs.

The retail DVD market is shrinking, perhaps even dying; it's an ongoing, inexorable trend, MOD or no MOD. That being the case, I don't see how hundreds and hundreds of titles becoming available via another system helps to "dwindle" the audience for classic films. At the very least, it's helping sustain it.

 

[Bob Cashill]

"If obscurities are your thing, these are the people you should be excited about."--For sure, and I'll certainly check them out. It's not like anyone has given up on pressed DVD providers, even if they have to some extent given up on us.



But by and large cult films are different from what the Warner and Sony archive programs provide--B movies, pre-code movies, star flops, and the kind of half- or fully-forgotten middle-of-the-road obscurities that have no cult support. The quintessential "movies that you've never heard of," which the masses weren't and aren't exactly massing for. The MODs are filling a gap that your average Best Buy/Amazon Bestsellers buyer never knew existed and that no outside distributor was ever going to tap.



I'm constantly surprised by some of this stuff and I'm one of those hardened buffs. Thanks to its exposure via the Warner Archive THE LAST FLIGHT, an interesting movie no one had thought about in decades, has finally achieved some sort of liftoff. Was Synapse going to pick that up? Criterion? Were Walmart shoppers going to buy it? And was WB itself going to put it out, singly or in a box? No, no, no, and, lacking easily exploitable elements in a declining marketplace, no.



"I'd wager that most of us who post here grew up in an era when it was not uncommon to be regularly exposed to films of all vintages via the TV. For a variety of reasons, though largely due to the fragmentation of mainstream media, this kind of availability is becoming increasingly rare."--Indeed, but in the US that's been true since the advent of cable in the late 70s and early 80s. VHS and VHS rentals helped, as has Turner Classic Movies. But some of what's in the Archive never made it onto VHS, now extinct, or even onto TCM, so there was no reasonable expectation of it ever reaching DVD, either. Otherwise what Paul Penna said.



And, thanks to frequent coupons, I've never paid $20 for a WA MOD, a price that I recall was typical for sell-through VHS back in the day.

 

[Adam Gregorich]

We were told that one of the reasons that MOD makes titles viable that otherwise wouldn't be was the cheaper production costs.

Yes the overall cost of doing an MOD is cheaper for the studios than doing a minimum DVD run that won't fully sell, that it why they have opted to do it. I can tell you flat out that if it weren't for MOD these titles would not be available to buy. There is a lot more involved that just the cost of the disc. There are a lot of additional costs to the business that drive their per unit costs up with MOD, that is why you see the prices you do. For what its worth I have talked to studios and replicators.

Having said all that, I think the cost to manufacture argument is actually irrelevant. Its up to each individual consumer to determine if the value of a movie (MOD, DVD, BD, PPV, download or ??) is greater than the cost. If it is then they will purchase, if not then they won't. If you don't see the value, then don't buy it, if you do then go for it. I wish people on both sides of the issue would stop trying to convince everyone else, because its not working. These arguments have happened in the WB thread, the FOX/MGM and the Sony thread.

 

[DeWilson]

FINALLY - Someone who actually knows and understands!

Why people don't understand there are other costs than just making the disc is beyond me.

I've said it before - THESE MOD PROGRAMS ARE A SERVICE and there are costs that go into each disc sold.

 

[shoeshineboy]

Yes, as someone who has harped long and hard against the mod tide i can see the pointlessness of it all.
All my main issues have been better covered and extolled than what i had to add to the debate.
That being said, I completely agree with Bob above when he said:

"But by and large cult films are different from what the Warner and Sony archive programs provide--B movies, pre-code movies, star flops, and the kind of half- or fully-forgotten middle-of-the-road obscurities that have no cult support. "


And while the timeless and neverending debate of 'what is considered 'cult' and 'middle of the road obscurities' could muddle the debate further, I fully agree with the idea that mod is a perfect vehicle for the truly small-scale, lesser (as determined by return on investment and also historic importance) items in the movie industry's warehouses. Considering the volume of items Warners has churned out on its archive program is incredible; that it is probably the dominant format for the next decade is obvious.
Unfortunately, what is lost is that Warners chose to release dozens of truly great, A-rank films along with the cult and obscurities, among the archive lists (i'm talking about the crawford, flynn, davis, robinson pictures primarily). Just half a dozen years ago, those films would have been probably treated like the jewels they are; some would have even been cared for, given some restoration and tributes in their first disc release.
Yes, the economy has sucked a lot of the life of standard dvd releases, at least for the major corporations. But is it merely because of shelf space and a smaller economic piece of the pie, or is there some of the 'self-fulfiling prophecy' at work here? Even a blind man could see that by choosing to over-focus on re-releasing the same films over and over again, shifting the classic film/tv business to the less expensive mod product, and setting a relatively cadillac (in comparison to the variety of price-ranges found with standard dvd stock) price system, there has to be some questions.

I'm fine with all the above conclusions -- and to date have refused to buy the archives and its similar rivals. Perhaps we're so vocal because those of us who cherish the precious products of past years over anyway-possible option know we're less than the underdog; an underdog can win the game on occasion. The Livius' of this forum (who i am proud to call a co-complainer) don't expect to win or to sway opinion. We don't want to go quietly, like a lamb...

 

[Paul Penna]

Originally Posted by shoeshineboy
And while the timeless and neverending debate of 'what is considered 'cult' and 'middle of the road obscurities' could muddle the debate further, I fully agree with the idea that mod is a perfect vehicle for the truly small-scale, lesser (as determined by return on investment and also historic importance) items in the movie industry's warehouses. Considering the volume of items Warners has churned out on its archive program is incredible; that it is probably the dominant format for the next decade is obvious.
Unfortunately, what is lost is that Warners chose to release dozens of truly great, A-rank films along with the cult and obscurities, among the archive lists (i'm talking about the crawford, flynn, davis, robinson pictures primarily). Just half a dozen years ago, those films would have been probably treated like the jewels they are; some would have even been cared for, given some restoration and tributes in their first disc release.
Yes, the economy has sucked a lot of the life of standard dvd releases, at least for the major corporations. But is it merely because of shelf space and a smaller economic piece of the pie, or is there some of the 'self-fulfiling prophecy' at work here? Even a blind man could see that by choosing to over-focus on re-releasing the same films over and over again, shifting the classic film/tv business to the less expensive mod product, and setting a relatively cadillac (in comparison to the variety of price-ranges found with standard dvd stock) price system, there has to be some questions.

I'm fine with all the above conclusions -- and to date have refused to buy the archives and its similar rivals. Perhaps we're so vocal because those of us who cherish the precious products of past years over anyway-possible option know we're less than the underdog; an underdog can win the game on occasion. The Livius' of this forum (who i am proud to call a co-complainer) don't expect to win or to sway opinion. We don't want to go quietly, like a lamb...

shoeshine boy and Livius, allow me to introduce you to King Canute. There's a major shift going on in the way media is being distributed, away from physical objects and toward online access, and there's no way to turn the tide. You don't need a self-fulfilling prophecy to explain what's happening or even some tangible, real-world factor like the economy. The shift is affecting the entire DVD market; if sales of mass-interest material are suffering, you can imagine how much more critically the situation affects the viability of the marginal and niche-interest. Look at what's happening to print media: lower circulation, higher price per copy. Have you seen the cover price of a magazine lately?

 

[ahollis]

DVD run that won't fully sell, that it why they have opted to do it. I can tell you flat out that if it weren't for MOD these titles would not be available to buy. There is a lot more involved that just the cost of the disc. There are a lot of additional costs to the business that drive their per unit costs up with MOD, that is why you see the prices you do. For what its worth I have talked to studios and replicators.

Having said all that, I think the cost to manufacture argument is actually irrelevant. Its up to each individual consumer to determine if the value of a movie (MOD, DVD, BD, PPV, download or ??) is greater than the cost. If it is then they will purchase, if not then they won't. If you don't see the value, then don't buy it, if you do then go for it. I wish people on both sides of the issue would stop trying to convince everyone else, because its not working. These arguments have happened in the WB thread, the FOX/MGM and the Sony thread.

Perfectly said. Either you buy or you don't. Please don't try to change my mind.

 

[SWFF]

Until recently I didn't know there were more costs going into these MOD discs, which would justify their sometimes expensiveness. But, as I mentioned before, I'm okay with that and have made my peace with it. Just as long as I start seeing some of those cult titles I've been wanting from any of the MOD programs, I'll be a happy camper.

Paramount needs to start one, for, if they don't, I don't think I'll ever see THE VULTURE, TICKS, and the often sought after THE BOOGENS! on any kind of DVD.

 

[Charles Smith]

The Boogens is one I recorded from TCM not long ago, in case you're not aware they have it. (Haven't watched it yet.)

 

[SWFF]

I still have the VHS that was sold way back in the late 90s, and just last year, bought a rather nice looking LBX bootleg of it. I would still like to have it on either a factory pressed DVD, with extras, or a MOD DVD, remastered. The former preferably, but the latter will do just fine. I'm sure Paramount must be mulling over whether they want to engage in the MOD revolution. How can they not be?

 

[jdee28]

Hopefully MGM will follow that trend and have coupons. SONY MOD has never had coupons nor has the TCM/Universal stuff. (Movies Unlimited has never had a real sale to the best of my knowledge, where their prices are lower than Amazon or Deepdiscount.) Only Warner has had the discount codes and sales; thanks Warners.

 

[shoeshineboy]

DVD market; if sales of mass-interest material are suffering, you can imagine how much more critically the situation affects the viability of the marginal and niche-interest. Look at what's happening to print media: lower circulation, higher price per copy. Have you seen the cover price of a magazine lately?

Your point is well taken, but is also something that many of us have referred to in perhaps not-quite as eloquent language as your post.
However, many of those replying to our concerns over higher-prices-for-less-quality are regularly bringing up the points mentioned in my post above. And as someone who works in the media, the rapid changes that newer and high speed electronic technology has brought asunder to my industry has proven to be a double-edged sword. Many of the media companies have taken a similar approach as Warners, which is to push hard, reap now and pay (for reducing quality) later... Where I sit, well-researched and well-written journalism is now a niche market and the marketplace is ripe for ignorance, lies and anger (none of which were hard to find before the massive modern change - tho I dare say the tea party would probably been dissected pretty quickly by the likes of Murrow, IF Stone, Agee. But at least its all to be had with the click of a button.

 

[Mark Pytel]

I'm hoping that this program works along the same lines as the WAC in that they only believe in OAR and 19:9 enhancement when the film is widescreen. I recently purchased the White Buffalo and that disc was great but the Best man would have benefited from 16:9 enhancement.
I hope that this new program not only releases some great films, but also rectifies some of the previous MGM full frame blunders. Perhaps this medium can allow for some of the older fullframe only discs to be replaced with widescreen ones. I currently own a number of Region 2 UK MGM discs as they released the movies over there in widescreen. However I hate pal speedup and would gladly re-purchase the discs on this side of the pond as long as they are in their OAR.
I'm also going to hold off on buying anymore of the MGM mod's currently availiable because I thought I read that they plan on redoing some of those. Many of the ones I still want were the 4:3 letterbox MOD'S.
I would love for all the Delta Force Movies, Sword of the Valiant, Clifford, Amos and Andy, Mr Mom, The Three Amigos, The Couch Trip and many others to be re-released.
Any thoughts on if this will be a possibility?

All we need now is for Universal to expand and continue there program as there are numerous Universal Films I would love to own.

 

[FrancisP]

There are those of us who have questions about this whole thing and it seems that the industry is not too keen on giving any answers. That is why I am staying out of it. I have questions about the durability of DVD-R vs pressed discs among others. This is nothing about complaining but wanting more info on what I am getting into.

 

[John Sparks]

Okay, where's the list of what is being offered now and what on-line retailer has the best price?

 

[SWFF]

They're not supposed to be coming out until mid-December. Fifty to start off with, and this is the only list I could find online. Not all fifty are mentioned, though:

Bad Jim (1990), 92 min.
A cowpoke buys Billy the Kid’s horse and, upon riding it, becomes an incorrigible outlaw himself.

By Love Possessed (1961), 116 min.
Lana Turner and Jason Robards star in a drama of passion and propriety as blue-blooded pillars of a small New England town who must face their defiant son’s (George Hamilton) increasingly rebellious behavior.

Diary Of A Madman (1963), 96 min.
Vincent Price turns in a classic performance as a sculptor, possessed by an evil spirit, who hires a model (Nancy Kovack) to pose for him — then learns thereafter that she has been brutally murdered.

Futureworld (1976), 104 min.
An amusement park of the future caters to any adult fantasy. Lifelike androids carry out your every whim. A fun place, right? Not so, as a reporter and his Girl Friday find out while on a press junket to the newly opened Futureworld…

The Hawaiians (1970), 132 min.
A sea captain’s discovery of water on a plantation leads to planting of pineapples on the island.

Rolling Thunder (1977), 99 min.
A gang of sadistic thugs murder the wife and child of a Vietnam vet, who, along with his war buddy and a woman, track down and kill the murderers.

The Satan Bug (1965), 114 min.
John Sturges directed this sizzling suspenser about a nerve-racking chase to recover flasks of a lethal virus which were stolen from a government lab by a deranged and dangerous scientist, who has decided that now it is his turn “to play God”…

The Spikes Gang (1974), 96 min.
Lee Marvin gives a spellbinding performance as a wounded outlaw who appears as a romantic figure to two impressionable youths (Ron Howard and Gary Grimes). Nursed back to health by the boys, the outlaw enlists them in his robberies…and then callously betrays them.

Still Of The Night (1982), 91 min.
Roy Scheider and Meryl Streep star in a highly charged, Hitchcock- inspired murder mystery set among New York’s chic world of high- rolling antique brokers. Co-stars Jessica Tandy.

Vigilante Force (1976), 89 min.
In this fast-paced adventure, an embittered Vietnam veteran (Kris Kristofferson) is hired by the residents of a small California town, who are weary of the disruption caused by unruly oil workers. The vet brings in other workers who do the job, then take over the town themselves…

The Witches (1968), 100 min.
A film of five separate comedy to drama segments–directed by Visconti, Bolognini, Pasolini, Franco Rossi and de Sica. The international cast includes Clint Eastwood, Annie Girardot and Alberto Sordi, and features Silvana Mangano.
DVD

The 7th Dawn (1964), 123 min.
William Holden fights Communist terrorists hell-bent on winning Malayan “independence” in this action-packed, edge-of-your-seat adventure that also stars Susannah York.

99 River Street (1953), 83 min.
A down-on-his-luck boxer, who is reduced to driving a cab, offers to help a would-be actress who is accused of murdering a stage producer…but finds that he must clear his name as well when his wife’s lifeless body turns up in the back of his cab] Based on a story by George Zuckerman.

Captain Kidd And The Slave Girl (1954), 83 min.
In this energetic swashbuckler, Eva Gabor has been dispatched by villains to seduce Captain Kidd (Anthony Dexter). But love blooms, and she stands by his side as he battles his way across the seven seas.

Crusoe (1989), 95 min.
An exciting and insightful re-telling of the classic legend. This historically faithful drama challenges the morals of the time as Crusoe, now an American slave trader, confronts a “Friday” who is his equal. Renowned cinematographer Caleb Deschanel directs in visually spectacular style.

Flight From Ashiya (1964), 100 min.
A U.S./Japanese co-production. Three rescue pilots (Yul Brynner, George Chakiris, Richard Widmark) must overcome their fears, differences and hatreds as they undertake the dangerous rescue of raft-bound Japanese on storm-tossed seas.
Leo The Last (1970), 103 min.
Marcello Mastroianni plays the last in a line of princes who gradually emerges from his decaying mansion to become involved with and help the people living in his deteriorating London neighborhood.

Big House, U.S.A. (1955), 82 min.
A tough and realistic crime drama unfolds as ruthless convicts (Broderick Crawford, Charles Bronson, Ralph Meeker, Lon Chaney, Jr., and William Talman) execute a successful prison escape to secure $200,000 in hidden ransom money.

Callie & Son (1981), 120 min.
Drama about a poor waitress who becomes the queen of a Texas publishing empire. On the way, she is reunited with her long-lost son.

The Private Files Of J. Edgar Hoover (1977), 112 min.
The story of the late J. Edgar Hoover, who was head of the FBI from 1924-1972. The film follows Hoover from his racket-busting days through his reign under eight U.S. presidents.