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Mary Tyler Moore Show Complete Series Set Coming (2 Viewers)

Joe Lugoff

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Well, looking back, I shouldn't have used the word "outrage." You know, I guess like political commentators on radio and television, we tend to overstate the case when we write comments on Internet forums. It's a good way to get attention, isn't it?

I really don't feel outrage over this plan. Actually, analyzing my feelings, I feel consternation, mild disgust and that feeling of "What did I expect, really? I should be used to this by now."

As for the person who said Complete Series sets sell well -- are there other examples, though, of where they switched plans in midstream like this? Don't they usually finish selling Season Sets and then sell a Complete Series set?

Anyway, whatever logic led to Fox's decision, I'm sure I'm not alone when I say I won't be buying any Complete Series set of anything I already own 4/7 of, so I'll be getting Seasons 5 through 7 through, let's say, alternative options.
 

Gary OS

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Joe, I was thinking the exact same thing about the complete sets example. As best I can remember, complete sets come out AFTER series are finished up in season release format. This is an unprecedented move, I believe. Had only one or two seasons of MTM been released up to this point I don't believe we'd be seeing and reading the responses of aggravation like we are here. But this show has already seen over half its seasons released. So it is a big deal to ask fans to double-dip to that degree. It really is.

I also echo Joe's comments about the use of the word "outrage." I had been thinking about this myself earlier today. Not the best way to express what I'm feeling. But your revised wording is spot on, Joe. That's how I feel as well.


Gary "ok, I'm definitely out now - nothing left to say" O.
 

Jeff Willis

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Gary, 10-4 on this. I still think that all of this has to do with the way that TV/DVD does not seem to be percieved in the same "class" as movie releases, at least the perception of some studios seem to tell me that. As you posted earlier, it may be that we as collectors have come to accept cut eps, wholesale underscore replacements, sub-standard prints. There are plenty of examples of all of these issues over the past 2-3 years. I will say that the studios get some releases right and some, mostly the smaller indy's, actually listen to customer feedback and actually fix issues (Route 66 S1V2, etc...of course, they dropped the ball and left the V1 eps un-remastered)

Maybe I'm way off base as on the film Bd, they also deal with issues over there with release issues, incorrect AR',s matting issues, etc, with some film releases on DVD.

It's the price we pay as DVD collectors, I guess.

Regarding the Fox decision to release the MTM box set, we would have had to "bug" the Fox meeting room to know exactly what was said :D , but there's no way, imo, that the issue wasn't discussed in that room, meaning, "we've already released previous season sets; what about the fans reaction, expenditures, etc?"

Jeff "Congats to the Steelers for #6" W.
 

Mike*SC

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While I agree with your creative assessment of the show's growth, I don't think consumers in general have such a specific memory. I do think that the first season, which is very promising but wildly uneven, did not help sales of the second season. I think people probably felt that they'd misremembered the show, not that it got better as it went on.
 

Mike*SC

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Well, the complete series box set of "Dr. Katz: Professional Therapist" came out after Paramount had released the first two seasons, and this was the only way to get subsequent seasons. That's another show I love (and I don't love that many!), so I bought it and gave a friend my first two season sets.

But even if this MTM case was completely unprecedented, David Levine brought up good sales figures for complete series sets only to debunk the theory that 95% of people buying the complete series were the people who'd bought season 1-4. If complete series sets of shows released in their entirety individually sell well, clearly there is a separate market for them.
 

Joe Lugoff

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Well, then, I truly wish all series were released as Complete Series -- none of this waiting for years to see if a series will be finished.

Of course, for something like "Gunsmoke," that could get expensive. But it's all the same in the long run.
 

Jeff Willis

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I'd also vote 90% of the time for complete series releases but if memory serves, we've knocked that one around here in the past and what I remember about the discussion is that the studios don't do much of that due to the larger price tag for a complete-series set vs individual season sets. They don't pull in the sales #'s because of the price.

For me, I'd be inclined to buy complete sets for most shows that I'd collect but not all of them. For some shows, I need a sampler S1 set on either a blind-buy or a nostalgia set where it may not wind up standing the test of time.
 

Theodore J. Mooney

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As a fan of The Mary Tyler Moore Show, I am extremely happy that Fox has decided to put out the remaining seasons on DVD. Afterall, getting this show out on DVD in full has been a long, bumpy ride. And I am SO glad that it is finally over. Afterall, I no longer won't have to worry about the rest of the series getting released. In that regard, I applaud Fox. However, as one who has bought the first four seasons of this classic, I am now stuck in a dilemma. In order to get the remaining seasons, it is more or less required of me to buy the first four seasons all over again. I honestly don't care for the idea of double dipping since that is just as waste of hard-earned money. So it's just a matter of which gets more value put on: a classic show or hard-earned money. I like both money and a classic show ... so I will need to find a compromise. And I think I have found it. I can justify myself spending under $80 bucks on the complete series of TMTMS since the original price of a single season set of the show was $30. So in other words, the price of the complete series of TMTMS will be THE factor when it comes to my decision of purchasing it or not. If the price is not what I deem as appropraite, then I definitely won't be buying it until it gets change to what I deem as fair and just. Also, as I have noticed more often than not, the price for just about any TV-DVD set tends go down over any length of time ... so it is just a matter of waiting. I am willing to wait to get what I want if it gets boiled down to that. I have waited for seven long, bumpy years ... so waiting for a couple more less-bumpy years is a walk in the park. But the difference between now and then is that I don't have to worry or wonder. That is over now and for that, I thank Fox.
 

Joe*A

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I'm with you on this one. I will wait it out and see the price of the complete series and if it would be the same price, relatively speaking, to purchasing seasons 5 - 7 individually, then I'll plop down my cash and the universe is in balance again. If the price is over $100, I could wait until next Christmas when Costco will sell it at a low low price of "Joe's desired price". And if not, then who needs it; really, this is discretionery merchandise. I had the pleasure of watching this show when it first came out - it would be nice to watch it all over again but if not, well, life goes on.
 

rcbrad

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I have the first four seasons already. If the set is offered at a deep discount months later I will buy it, if it is not much more than the price of what the last three seasons would have cost. I almost always buy tv shows on dvd a year or so after they come out. Many or most at that point are 50% or more off. I usually pay $15.00 to $20.00 for most tv on dvd. I just keep checking online for the sales. I do buy a lot. It just means having to wait awhile. Who knows maybe they will also release the remaining sets individually. I do like the show very much, but I can be patient for a sale. I have already waited this long!
 

Gary OS

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Couple of differences between "Katz" and "MTM". Only the first 2 seasons were released before the entire thing. So people had not already invested in over 60% of the series before the Complete set came out like they'll be doing with "The Mary Tyler Moore Show". That's a big deal that you seem to be overlooking, Mike. Secondly, you are talking about an animated show that didn't have the number of episodes per season that a classic like MTM did. Again, that's a factor that should be considered. So I think your example is more apples to oranges, my friend.

And while I have no doubt that David is spot on telling us about the good sales figures for bigger, nicer complete gift sets versus individual season sets, I'm not ready to say that everyone that will be buying this upcoming release are going to be brand new, first time buyers of the series. It might not be 95%, but I'll bet it will be at least 50% double-dipping customers. And don't think for a second that Fox doesn't know that and isn't counting on that. They aren't that dumb.

I still think David Levine's comment about doing an Amazon exclusive is a great idea that wouldn't burn either Fox or the consumers. Seems like it would be a great compromise all the way around.


Gary "there's no way that many of the sets sold won't be the result of consumer double-dipping, and there's also no way that Fox isn't aware of this reality" O.
 

JohnMor

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But how is double-dipping such a problem if it doesn't cost you any more than you would pay for the last 3 seasons individually? No one has really addressed that.

Selling or trading your four season sets seems like a very, very small inconvenience to get the rest of a show people claim to want so badly.

The MTM set has a MUCH cheaper price point than the I Love Lucy complete set ($249.99), which I got for $117 from Deep Discount. After selling my 7 season sets I MADE money on the deal! Even with 4 sets to sell, we can break even or come within $10 or so on the MTM set, even if you sell or trade them for only $7.50 each.
 

Brian Himes

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I've said this before. The chances of selling our copies of the first four seasons and getting even a decent or respectable price (or even getting anything at all) for them is next to impossible. Right now on Amazon there are 71 people selling off their season one set of MTM and the starting price is $12.50 (plus shipping). And the sets are not moving. No one is buying them. On eBay there are at least as many and starting anywere from $8.00 to $22.00. Again, no one is buying them. So, how and where do you sell the first 4 seasons and make ANY kind of money on them? Used DVD stores will only give you about $3.00 for each set and then only if they don't already have one set on their shelves. So, the only viable option left is to give them away as gifts. In which case we are getting nothing for them. This is the biggest thorn in this for me. If I want the entire series I have to buy the complete series set and be stuck with 4 worthless season sets that I have already purchased. Sure, everyone can keep saying you can sell them, but again that in my opinion is a fantasy. The market is already saturated with people selling their season sets so the chances of selling even one set is pretty slim. Let alone trying to unload four sets. Remember the law of supply and demand? Well, there is too much supply and not enough demand for these sets.
 

Powell&Pressburger

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I was thrilled with the news of the Complete Series Set. I just hope the packaging is NOT cheap and doesn't come damged with glue stuck to all the discs!

That beig said. I own all first four season sets. I purchased the First Season the day it was released. I rushed out to buy it. Was thrilled with the box art the layout etc. Inside the DVD set was a flyer stating Season 2 would be released ... I forget when... anyhow all the fans waited... waited... waited... let's just say WE WAITED.. and waited. We finally got season 2 then all the way up to 4 and it took a LOOOOOOOOOoooooooonnng time to get those.

I do remember when Season 1 was released Most of the case minus Mary were on Larry King Live.

I figure FOX felt let's do a complete series set and get it all out there. That way they could be done with getting complaints on the release.

It would be cool if we get the episodes that were edited for music issues I think not only was the Christmas one edited ... but also I heard about an episode not sure which season where Mary and Rhoda go to a college type party... I could be wrong however. I think we will get the same exact discs maybe just new artwork.

The extras for season 1 and 2 were really great. Loved getting the Emmy acceptance speeches and all that.


I will buy it the day it comes out. For the main reason I don't have to wait 6months to a whole year to get the following season, I hope they release the remainder of THE BOB NEWHART SHOW also... but I wouldn't besurprised if they don't do a complete set for that series either.
 

Mike*SC

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Gary, I thought you were done with this thread! (But I'm glad you're not.)

My "Dr. Katz" example wasn't meant to suggest that the scenarios were identical, just that releasing a series set after an aborted series of season sets (boy, that's a mouthful) was not unprecedented. I don't know that it's as different as apples and oranges, though. Maybe apples and pears?

And yes, some will double-dip (me included, I'll admit it). And yes, Fox is aware of that. Again, the points about series set sales (by me and others) weren't meant to suggest there would be no double-dipping, only that it wasn't going to be overwhelmingly so. (It also addressed the fallacy that a series set was a poor business decision.) The point is, I think, that you may feel screwed by this (and legitimately so), but that that screwing is a byproduct of many legitimate factors and not an end unto itself.
 

Gary OS

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I'm trying Mike. I'm trying. But people and posts keep pulling me back in. ;)

In all seriousness, thanks for your last post. At least we are closer than further apart now. My point was never that Fox's sole purpose in releasing the set this way was to put the screws to the fans. But I also thought it was disingenuous of folks to act like double-dipping never occurred to Fox at all, or that fans had no reason to be upset at this decision. I don't believe it's unreasonable to expect the consumer to be frustrated at Fox's action, despite the reasoning behind the action.


Gary "ok, let me try it again - over and out" O.
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Theodore J. Mooney

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Well, they aren't necessarily worthless per say if you look at them as back-ups.

Also, you can simply loan them to friends. If you got rid of them, then you will be "forced" to loan your complete series set. So that's a plus for already owning the first four seasons.
 

JohnMor

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Brian, that is a good point. Maybe I have a different experience here in LA as the store I trade at gives me between $2.00 and $3.00 PER DISC, so on TV sets I usually get $9.00 to $10.00, and they've never not taken what I've brought in. Maybe it's not the same elsewhere. Point taken.

Also, I've sold MANY used DVD's to friends and people at work. I get a bit more than I would on trade (usually ask $5.00 per disc) and they get it much cheaper than they would used in a store or on the net. They love it. It's how I'm parting with many of my SD's as I go Blu-ray. It's a win-win for us all.

But even if you don't, won't and/or can't trade them, the small amount above the cost of the 3 seasons by themselves is hardly cause for aggravation. With good comparison shopping, you can probably still get the set for what the 3 seasons would have cost individually.
 

Brian Himes

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I have a friend who really, really loves the character of Rhoda and would have only bought the first four seasons of Mary anyway, so I will probalby give them to him as a gift.

My past experience has been that most used DVD stores will only carry one to two sets of a particular title (unless they are very, very popular).

I did a lot of thinking about this whole situation over the weekend and decided to hold onto my seasons 1-4 sets until the complete series comes out. At that time, I will be getting the complete series set and giving away the first four season sets. While I won't be getting any money for them, I will be giving them to someone who will be very happy to have them. Probably as a Christmas in July gift. At least I will get the pleasure of making someone else happy even with the bite the cost of the complete series set will have on my wallet.

I've made my peace with this whole situation and it's time for me to let it go. I can't change it so if I want the entire series (which I do) I'm just going to have to bite the bullet. And in the end, having the entire series is what is the most important thing to me.
 

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