Married with Children S3 Won't Have "Love & Marriage" Theme Song! (Rights Issues) (1 Viewer)

[WillG]

As I said before, I'm going to let this one go, based on the tough circumstances for Columbia. But, it is disheartening to see that this crap is still going on. We have/are getting a few releases that were once thought to be impossible due to music rights (2 seasons so far of "In Living Color" "Miami Vice") It was always my prediction that since TV on DVD has become such a success, publishers would ease up on rights and realize there was money to be made, even if they had to work with the studios and go lower than they originally wanted. I know people want to make a much money as they can, but I would imagine that many, if not most of the rightsholders are already somewhat wealthy and one might ask, How much is enough? And, as usual, it the little guys, like us who are ultimately denied.

 

[Greg O' Connel]

Personally, I find this really insignificant. It's a theme song we've all heard a million times and that we're just going to fast forward over anyway, so what's the big deal? I guess some of you see this as a matter of principle, which I find absolutely insane (

), but whatever floats your boat.



Although I would prefer to have the theme song, I would much rather CTHV release these at a lower price, rather than paying an exorbitant amount and having to raise the price, which would lower sales and jeopardize releases of future MWC seasons. I waited for years for MWC to come out on DVD, years where it seemed likely the show would never be released, and times when it seemed they would never be released as full seasons. This theme song whoopty-do just seems petty in retrospect.

 

[Andrew Radke]

quote:I can't help but feel this is the last release of MWC. It is a sad day for me.

I know where you're coming from and I can't help but feel the same way. I hope to god we're both wrong though. As I've stated many.........many times, "Married...With Children" is above and beyond my favorite sitcom of all time. If it turns out that season 3 is the last to be released on DVD as a result of the music issue, I will undoubtedly be extremely disappointed as well.

 

[Dave Farley]

David mentioned that the rights holders wanted 43% more for season 3. Just out of curiosity, how much did they want? Can you list it here?

 

[David Lambert]

quote:David mentioned that the rights holders wanted 43% more for season 3. Just out of curiosity, how much did they want? Can you list it here?

That's not for me to say, sorry.





But let's look at it from another point of view, shall we? Let's role-play. You are a DVD producer with a finite budget imposed by the company that is owned by that big conglomerate called Sony, and you must stick to that budget or jeapordize your job.



You are in charge of 2 projects to make TV-on-DVD box sets. On the one hand you have a normal set music-rights-wise, that costs what you would normally expect to pay for such rights on a typical set. On the other hand you have another set whose music rights issues are a problem, because there is ONE song on there - the theme song - whose music rights owners want a high figure for. A figure high enough to be comparable to the entire cost of all the music rights on the first set.



What would YOU do?





I am *NOT* saying that this is the exact situation on MWC - S3, but you get the picture. This is how corporations think in these situations. Should I pay this enormous cost for one song on one set, or use all that money to buy a lot more other songs both on this set and on other sets as well? They have a budget in that department, and they have to stick to it.



If a huge cost comes along, they might consider paying it, but then the accounting dept. has to hide that cost in some other budget somewhere else. If the big conglomerate's bean-counters see that the one dept. overran it's budget for any reason - no matter the profit involved - then it's a big problem for the folks who run that dept. and the division it's in. This is how finance works in big companies.





I guarantee you that every day or twice a week or whatever there is a staff meeting of all the department heads there and at one of these meetings the manager over the DVD production raised a new issue and said "we've got a probelm with the MWC season sets: the guys who own the theme song just jacked up their price by 43%, and they already were sticking it to us before. Now they've even stopped using lubricant, didn't kiss us or buy us dinner or anything. We're in a jam over this, because it will bust our dept's budget if we pay it." So the Finance Controller goes, "How much do they want?" Upon hearing the answer the Controller says, "Nope, no way we can file that cost under bathroom supplies this time. Sorry, I can't help you." So the head of Marketing says, "Well, if you can live without the song and substitute it with something, I'll have my box design boys leave a space somewhere on the box, and have my copy writers come up with something that tries to spin this as a positive thing that there's new music being used." "Okay, then that's the plan."



In my experience, that's the way these things normally end up happening. That's just a thumbnail version of the type of scenario I envision...it was probably over several meetings, over the course of months, with suggestions on how to negotiate differently and various other people getting involved to try to work things out with the cost. After that failed, there was probably more talk about impact to the consumer and how that affects sales. But, in the end, they decided to do what they did, and in their eyes it was the only decision they could make and feel like they won't get their asses kicked by the bosses.



When you do your job and have a decision to make, don't you weigh all the options and usually pick the one that's least apt to get you fired? That's what's on their minds...trust me.

 

[Gord Lacey]

quote:Although I would prefer to have the theme song, I would much rather CTHV release these at a lower price, rather than paying an exorbitant amount and having to raise the price, which would lower sales and jeopardize releases of future MWC seasons.

I'm not sure if people are expecting this to have a lower price than previous sets, but I wouldn't expect that it will. The set probably won't be cheaper, it just won't be more expensive.



Gord

 

[Michael_CPC]

This is devastating news. I agree that "Love And Marriage" embodies Married... with Children, but I'm too big of a fan not to buy the set. My only concern is that the next generation of DVD viewers will be missing out on the MWC experience.

 

[MatthewA]

Now I'm worried that Golden Girls: Season 1 won't have its theme song, which was not written expressly for that series either.

 

[Robert Ringwald]

Why don't they license the theme for the entire run instead of just the first season....



that way when the shows make a huge profit on DVD, they already have the music ready to go. It would fix the problem with Dawson's Creek seasons 3-6 as well...

 

[Malcolm R]

quote:Now I'm worried that Golden Girls: Season 1 won't have its theme song, which was not written expressly for that series either.

Again, as a huge GG fan, this doesn't really concern me. I'll be more disappointed if the episodes are not original and uncut. But if the theme is missing/changed, I won't complain.


Why buy 10 onions if you may only use 1? I'd imagine they didn't want the significant up-front charge to buy the entire X seasons worth of rights when low sales would mean they might only release 1 or 2 seasons.

 

[Steve...O]

My day job is as a finance officer for a Fortune 500 company and I generally concur with what Dave said although I must caveat it by saying my company is services oriented rather than goods oriented so we do have a different take on things. However, the general principles are the same.



Dave raises a good point that many overlook. There is a difference between profitability and budgets. It is not enough to be profitable, we need to attain the budgeted profitability. A number of folks (not just the bigwigs) are in incentive compensation plans which means annual bonuses are dependent on making budget goals. Believe me, every legal trick in the book is used to make this happen. Most managers won't lose their jobs if they don't make budget one year, but they will see their pay impacted. If you don't make budget in successive years then perhaps it is time to get your resume updated.



We will tolerate unprofitable products or budget overruns in certain situations. One is if the product is in the infancy stages. Another is for "loss leader" or "goodwill" type situations where we will to make up for it elsewhere. However, at the end of the day, the company/division as a whole had better make those targets.



I still applaud Columbia for trying to make this work for MWC fans. Obviously MWC represents a profitable enterprise for them otherwise they wouldn't be doing it. However, if they had to shell out over a million for music rights then the profit goes bye-bye.



The Sinatra family (Nancy in particular) runs an active message board. It might be worthwhile to see what their take on this would be.



Steve

 

[Steve_Knutzen]

I understand why some of you won't be buying this set but I most certainly will. Columbia may not have the best track record with their releases but I feel in this situation they are not the bad guy. I definitely appreciate that they're letting the public know and in advance even. No lost sale here.

 

[Casey Trowbridg]

quote: I'm not sure if people are expecting this to have a lower price than previous sets, but I wouldn't expect that it will. The set probably won't be cheaper,

it just won't be more expensive.

Gord, I personally agree with you, but I think this is what some people are reasoning.



If paying for the theme song for season 1 and 2 were factored in to the cost of the set to the consumer, then not having to spend that extra money would mean that they could charge less for it because it cost them less to produce and that's what they should do.



Again, not my reasoning I expect the price to stay the same, but many feel that if they're not paying as much they shouldn't charge as much. It will be interesting to see what they use to replace the theme, I'm sure that if they could they'd try to find something already owned by Sony.

 

[PatH]

Where to come down on this? On the one hand, I 'm sick of being denied shows because of music rights, so I applaud Columbia for refusing to cave into what is reportedly an exorbitant demand and a continuing unreasonable intransigence.



But let's consider a couple of other things (and I apologize if this has been covered; I admit I haven't read all of this thread). Several I did read are hopeful that the release of Season 3 will bring the rights holders to their senses. Well and good and future seasons will be released intact. But what if Columbia, buoyed by success with the third season, refuses to negotiate further on the incorrect but quite reasonable conclusion that the fans have accepted the situation and so will buy without concern for the title song? Sure, fans can inform them this is not so, but if sales figures are high enough, will that matter to them. If sales figures are not high enough, Columbia can conclude one of two things: DVD purchasers have tired of MWC (not true for fans, of course) or, purchasers want MWC, but continued negotiations with intransigent music rights holders are not worth the trouble and/or expense involved. Either way, fans lose. But since Columbia can move onto something else with less problems associated with it (and there will be purchasers of that, whatever it is), why will Columbia care beyond wringing their hands and saying that the MWC situation is ceertainly a shame for everyone involved?



And consider what signal the successful release of Season 3 of MWC sends to other studios. They might conclude that they can release any show with whatever changes they feel necessary or convenient. Now, I can hear keyboards clacking already that people won't buy these and that will be true, until some studio somewhere hits on a show that viewers must have. Since viewers are as diverse as snowflakes, who can tell when that'll happen and what the show will be. We'll (and I include myself) say, "I won't buy altered TV shows, but Show X is a special case." And don't think studios don't know that. I'll betmost of us already have TV shows we've purchased which are cut but we didn't find out about until we read a thread in HTF and sometimes it's too late to return them (Mary Tyler Moore, for example, where the edit was minor but also ridiculous). We live with that and try to be more careful in the future.



As for me, I bought MWC Seasons 1 and 2 but will probably pass on Season 3 until I see if this has had any effect on subsequent seaons' packaging. I refused to buy Wiseguy, one of my favorite shows, because of this music rights crap and will delay any purchase of WKRP, the other notable show this affects, until I have confirmation that it has its music as originally aired. And, yes, that does make a difference, it's set in the music world, for Chrissakes.



PatH

 

[David Lambert]

quote:

quote: I'm not sure if people are expecting this to have a lower price than previous sets, but I wouldn't expect that it will. The set probably won't be cheaper, it just won't be more expensive.

Gord, I personally agree with you, but I think this is what some people are reasoning.



If paying for the theme song for season 1 and 2 were factored in to the cost of the set to the consumer, then not having to spend that extra money would mean that they could charge less for it because it cost them less to produce and that's what they should do.



Again, not my reasoning I expect the price to stay the same, but many feel that if they're not paying as much they shouldn't charge as much...

Well, if the list price of the 3rd Season three-disc set just HAPPENED to be the same SRP of the 2nd Season three-disc set (ahem), them my expectation would be that Columbia wants to recoup some of the expense involved in the high music rights fees paid out in previous sets.

 

[Casey Trowbridg]

David, you're right and that would probably be a large factor if not the largest in why you won't see a price drop for season 3. I personally don't have a problem with it because the set was selling relatively cheaply in the first place. Others might feel that since they are spending less on this set they should be charging less, again not me but from reading a few posts I sort of get that impression that it might be a few people's attitudes. You know what, I don't even have a problem if someone thinks that way, I can see there point even if I might not agree with it.

 

[Will_B]

quote:IMO, it depends on whether or rather what they use to replace the theme with. If it is just a generic piece of stock music or something than yeah a price drop would seem appropriate, but not necessarily if they just license a different song. N

I'd hope they hire somebody to synthesize an instrumental version of the song, as close in arrangement to the original as possible. I think it would be best if they do NOT hire a sound-a-like to do the vocals, since that rarely works. Just do a nice instrumental. One guy with a synthesizer and a couple weeks should be enough to remake it.

 

[Dave Farley]

I agree with your explanation, David. A concise and accurate one, by the way. I understand the constraints of budgets and profit projections as I work in finance myself. In goods-oriented companies, you don't usually have a lot of flexibility with the budget, especially with multiple projects going on.

My question was out of sheer curiosity. I've always wondered what kind of fees are paid to license music for DVD and home video.

 

[JonZ]

Doesnt bother me at all. How many of us watch the credits/theme anyway.

Forget the theme just start the episode.

 

[Gord Lacey]

But they also have to factor in selling fewer sets because of fans that won't accept the music replacement. Fewer sets means more has to be made on each one.

Gord