making a decision on subwoofer

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by Ed J, Oct 31, 2004.

  1. Ed J

    Ed J Auditioning

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    Hi, I am just now ordering a home theater set up and still trying to decide on the subwoofer size. I am getting B&W 703's for the front, htm7 for the center, 705's for the rear. I will be getting a Yamaha rx-v2500 7.1 for power. My room is approximately 16x16 with a high sloping ceiling to a max of 15ft. I do have tenants living downstairs. The salesman/adviser at the store is suggesting I save a few dollars and go with a B&W 650 12" with 200watts. Said it would rattle the windows. I am thinking about the B&W 675 with a 10" speaker and 500 watts. I can always turn it down but not add power. Oh yes, I am ordering a Mitsubishi rear projection tv 62825 Diamond. Any thoughts????
    Thanks for the input.
    Ed
     
  2. frank manrique

    frank manrique Supporting Actor

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    How loud are you planning to playback music and movies? How much will your tenants tolerate your penchant for loud, low bass? [​IMG]

    For moderate playback levels the SVS PB10-ISD will fit the bill quite nicely (and if still is $399 is one heck of a bargain!).
    For "reference" levels playback you might want to consider something a bit larger (like a SVS 20-39 PC cylinder or something similar)...

    -THTS

    "...hi, my name is Frank...and am an SVS bassaholic..."
     
  3. Rob Kramer

    Rob Kramer Second Unit

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    Those are nice speakers.

    Have you already heard that speaker/amp combo?
     
  4. SethH

    SethH Cinematographer

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    The common opinion around here is that B&W subs are good, but not worth the money (their speakers are very good, though!). Look at some other subs for better sound AND better value. Look at SVS and Hsu. Both companies make great subs that will likely sound much better than the B&W sub for a lower price.
     
  5. jephdood

    jephdood Stunt Coordinator

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    Don't feel obligated to match your sub to your mains. There's no reason to do so.

    I had a B&W ASW CDM sub (12", 1000W) and was very disappointed in it for HT. For music only it was great. Very tight and controlled bass. But it just didn't get loud enough or have that impact for HT. Plus, I paid through the nose for it. Go with a Hsu or SVS. MUCH more bang for your buck.
     
  6. Ed J

    Ed J Auditioning

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    [​IMG] Wow. Those are all good questions. I have not heard the speakers with the amp. I am told and have read that its earlier model the rxv2400 was very good and this one just came out and increased the watts by 10w per channel. I have only heard the speakers using a Rotel amp. The only subwoofer I have heard with it was a B&W 650 200 watt. I was not too impressed. I want something for music and movies. When I watch action movies I want to crank it up. From what I see online there is no place for me to listen to the SVS sub. Sounds like I would like a 12" 500watt unit. I am concerned that if this is a downward firing speaker it would be a problem for my tenants. I was leaning more to B&W because I thought the series might be rather tuned to each other. Evidently not. I like the reports I was reading about the SVS subs. I like the looks of the PB12-plus box speakers, but they too are down firing speakers. Afraid of shaking the house too much and upsetting neighbors. It would sound great to me. Sure appreciate all the input from you all.
     
  7. jephdood

    jephdood Stunt Coordinator

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    How large is your room?

    What percentage of movies to music?

    If you're worried about downfiring drivers, you could set it on an isolation device like an Auralex "Gramma" platform. Might help a bit.

    A PB12 would be pretty good.. A Hsu VTF-3 II is also an excellent choice.

    All-around, I'm very happy in both movies and music with my Hsu. I've not heard an SVS. It's a challenge listening to these before buying, but you may be able to find someone around you that already has one or the other.. and both offer a trial in-home listening period as well. The problem there is that you pay for return shipping.

    But I don't know that you'd want to return either after you hear what they can do.
     
  8. Rajiv:Sharma

    Rajiv:Sharma Extra

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    Well, I have B&W 804s front, 805s rear, HTM-1 center and I have been looking for some real good sub. Lot of people here generally advice SVS or Hsu.. to be honest both suck.

    Only good advice I got was that Velodyne DD-12 is an excellent sub, pretty expensive though. May be you can look at other Velodyne sub. They seem to have good subs and other advantage is you can audition them at most of high-end stores. I would buy sub after audition rather than rely on internet advice and regret later. I am more leaning towards B&W ASW-750 (12" 1000W bang!!!) or Velodyne DD-10 or DD-12 .. depending on how i like them in audition tomorrow [​IMG]
     
  9. Ed J

    Ed J Auditioning

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    Thanks Rajiv:Sharma I appreciate your input. So you have heard the Hsu and SVS subs as well as the B&W. Like to hear what you think tomorrow after the audition. That is a good idea though, just get the rest of the system and shop around for the sub later. I was trying to make all my decisions at once. Not many High end places up here tho.[​IMG]
     
  10. SethH

    SethH Cinematographer

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    You are obviously entitled to your opinion, but there are many people on this forum who have owned Velodyne (as you mention in your post) and have switched to SVS or Hsu. On what basis do you say they suck? Personal taste, frequency response, sheer output? You're entitled to your opinion, but if you're going to say that two company's make bad products you should provide some evidence to back it up.
     
  11. Tim Hoover

    Tim Hoover Screenwriter

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    Just an FYI: You CAN audition an SVS sub in one of two ways...1- check audioenvy.com for an SVS owner near you and you could go listen to it, and 2- order a sub from SVS. There is a 45-day, no questions asked, return period if you find that you don't like the sub.

    I personally own a 20-39PCi and love the thing. I have heard some of the older Velo SPL series, which are roughly comparable in price. I wasn't terribly impressed at all, as I felt the Velos were slightly boomy, slow, and fat-sounding. Some people really dig that type of sound, but it wasn't for me...
     
  12. Rajiv:Sharma

    Rajiv:Sharma Extra

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    Thanks for your feedbacks guys. Guess what.. my search is over. I spend almost whole day today at 3-stores and auditioned Martin Logan's Depth, Velodyne DD-10 & DD-12, B&W ASW-850 & 800 besides SVS and Hsu that I have heard many times at some of my friend's houses... My thinking after autions is that SVS and Hsu just dont match up high-end B&W speaker's speeds, they can't control max loudness... they're ok for movie explosion effects etc .. but not for real music. To be honest, I have nothing personal against SVS or Hsu. They just fit in this class (period).

    I bought B&W ASW-800 .. 12" 1000 watts, blends perfectly with my other B&Ws. Though Velodyne DD-12 is awesome but too expensive $2500+ ..I was looking for around $1200 .. though ASW-800 stretched me to $1800 already.

    Next LCD Telly and hopefully I wont step in another electronic store for few years [​IMG]

    Thanks again folks.
     
  13. frank manrique

    frank manrique Supporting Actor

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    quote:
    __________________________________________________ ______

    Lot of people here generally advice SVS or Hsu.. to be honest both suck.
    __________________________________________________ ______

    Ah...what profound statement! "They both suck." Boy, do I really feel educated and enlightened! [​IMG]

    Dude...enjoy your new subwoofer-wannabe and leave bass reproduction (music and film soundtracks--surprise! [​IMG] ) to REAL subs that can do the job accurately and with balls...SVS, Hsu, Servo Drive Contrabass, Maestro, etc. [​IMG]

    Man...why is it that I get the feeling I've read similar words before...in another Forum? Umm...

    -THTS

    "...hi, my name is Frank...and am an SVS bassaholic..."
     
  14. ScottCarr

    ScottCarr Second Unit

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    Frank Frank Frank, come on this is apparently some impressional consumer who has fallen victim of the B&M rhetoric. I am sure his salesperson is taking very good care of him. After all back in Jan 2004 this is what he had posted here on this forum.



    this person knows all about bass reproduction well whatever the salesperson what them to know.
     
  15. steve nn

    steve nn Cinematographer

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    Man...why is it that I get the feeling I've read similar words before...in another Forum? Umm...
    __________________________________________________ ____

    Frank> I had the same thought. Do you think?

    When I ran B&W speakers, I had the opportunity to listen to their sub offerings quite often. Although never in my own setting, but none the same. It was enough to know that I don't agree at all with the opinions stated in this Thread. I thought highly of their speakers but this did not apply to their subs.
     
  16. SVS-Ron

    SVS-Ron Screenwriter

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    Rajiv,

    Have you ever heard an SVS? Since we design them to be very accurate with music as well as movie soundtracks (which are full of music of course) I can only imagine that either you never heard one, or if you did it was not properly set up.

    If per chance you did hear one, please let us know where so we can determine if perhaps there's even a defect with that unit. There's something seriously wrong if an SVS "sucks" to your ears.

    Given your upgrade to an "LCD telly" I have to believe you are in or from the UK?

    Ron
    SVS
     
  17. frank manrique

    frank manrique Supporting Actor

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    quote:
    __________________________________________________ _______

    Frank> I had the same thought. Do you think?
    __________________________________________________ _______

    Yep...I think so, Steve...

    -THTS

    "...hi, my name is Frank...and am an SVS bassaholic..."
     
  18. steve nn

    steve nn Cinematographer

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    Yep...I think so, Steve...
    __________________________________________________ ___

    Oh no, here we go again. Well our little reprieve was nice while it lasted Frank. I'm sure Ron will be able to fix that defective sub though:wink:
     
  19. Jeff Gatie

    Jeff Gatie Lead Actor

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    If we get a reply that says it "they sound like Thiels and no, I'm not from the UK", I believe we have a winner![​IMG]
     
  20. Tim O...

    Tim O... Stunt Coordinator

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    You seem intelligent and open-minded Ed, so I'm sure I don't have to tell you that any opinion of 2 of the most acclaimed subwoofer companies in the world expressed as "Lot of people here generally advice SVS or Hsu.. to be honest both suck," needs to be taken with extreme caution if not discounted outright. As you may be guessing, some people just don't like one or both of these companies and belittle them at every opportunity. Let me assure you though, they don't "suck." They make great products. This is based on my firsthand experience of SVS, and the opinions of professionals whom I highly respect, about Hsu products.

    It's like most have been telling you in this thread - you're really hampering your ability to maximize your subwoofer budget by sticking to B&W. Not that they don't make good ones (from what I've read), just that you'll probably have to spend 2x to 3x more to get performance comparable to offerings from companies like SVS, Hsu, Rocket, ServoDrive, etc.

    For my own part, I have an SVS PB12-ISD/2. It has 2x 12" drivers, variable phase, subsonic filter, variable tuning, 600 watt RMS amp, etc., etc. It weighs 150 pounds. I only paid $899 for it. I don't know of another sub out there that can match its performance for $899. You may not like how big it is (it's huge), its styling, or its sound (although most people believe that frequencies in the range in which subwoofers play sound basically the same if the sub's performance on paper is good, which this one's is), but you cannot objectively say it "sucks," at least not for $899. You *might* reasonably say that its performance is lacklustre when compared with an excellent $8000 to $10,000 subwoofer, but saying that it flat out "sucks" is idiotic. None of the other SVS offerings, for their price, suck. I can't personally vouch for Hsu as I've never heard one, but from word of mouth alone and from the highly professional reviews they've gotten, they too do not "suck."

    Again, you could spend $2500+ on a very good Velodyne, B&W, or similar large, brick and mortar company sub, but you'll probably get the same or better performance for half that or less from an Internet only, specialty company like SVS or Hsu. That's just the nature of the business. And if you do your own research you'll see the same thing. The one downside is that you have to buy on word of mouth, or be willing to eat return shipping charges. I bought on word of mouth alone, and I'm still raving about what a fantastic buy I made, as are the dozens of people who hear my home theatre. Good luck.
     

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