Mad Men Season 3 (1 Viewer)

[mattCR]

space....

You have to love that Betsy kicks him out of his house, only to leave the kids with the nanny for six weeks as she rides the plane to Reno with her new man Francis.

The entire thing was great.

 

[Michael Reuben]

Originally Posted by Raasean Asaad

Isn't McCann-Erickson, Duck's firm? If so he's going to be sick that Don pulled this off. You know he wants to get back at Don.

Duck is at Grey, a major firm but not nearly the size of McCann. You can bet he'll be after Peggy with renewed intensity.

Originally Posted by mattCR

space....

You have to love that Betsy kicks him out of his house, only to leave the kids with the nanny for six weeks as she rides the plane to Reno with her new man Francis.

The entire thing was great.

It makes a certain kind of sense. After all, Don won't be there during the day to take care of them -- even less so now, given developments at work. Best to make a clean break and get the kids accustomed to his absence.

What it really highlights is how screwed up divorce law was until not so long ago.

 

[Patrick_S]

What a fantastic season, summer 2010 can’t come fast enough.
Here are some of my highlights on episode.
I really liked the growth that Don showed in this episode. His acts of contrition in the conversations with Roger, Pete and Peggy really showed that he now understands he is not allows right and sometimes others know better. The conversations came across as sincere and heartfelt. Where the conversations just salesmanship at its’ finest or real growth? Only next season will give us the real answer.
I for one am hoping the divorce of Don and Betsy’s marriage does take place and we see very little of her in the coming season. Betsy is absolutely my least favorite character and I would not be saddened if it were dropped to a recurring character we see very infrequently or dropped completely. She is just an immature spoiled little child inside who always wants what she wants but really doesn’t know what she wants. That aside January certainly is beautiful and I love eye candy but the character is such a pain.
I could not stop laughing when Trudy summoned Peter to her during the tense conversation with Roger and Don. We’ve all been there gents, we are the masters of our own universes or so we think.
I can’t wait to see what the coming season has to offer.

 

[Holadem]

While Price was indispensable in enabling the new venture, that was essentially his only value. I am surprised they let him get his name on the door? I suppose that's what leverage means. But I like the character.

Terrific finale.

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H

 

[Michael Reuben]

Originally Posted by Holadem

While Price was indispensable in enabling the new venture, that was essentially his only value. I am surprised they let him get his name on the door? I suppose that's what leverage means. But I like the character.

Every professional organization needs a guy like Pryce. Otherwise you think you're doing great, but one day you turn around and find you're broke, because expenses have eaten up your profits. But I agree that it's rare for someone in that capacity to get his name on the door. Pryce recognized his moment, and he took it.

 

[Holadem]

"I for one am hoping the divorce of Don and Betsy’s marriage does take place and we see very little of her in the coming season. Betsy is absolutely my least favorite character and I would not be saddened if it were dropped to a recurring character we see very infrequently or dropped completely. She is just an immature spoiled little child inside who always wants what she wants but really doesn’t know what she wants. "

I know. What woman wouldn't want to be with a man who not only chronically and casually cheats on her, has lied to her for their entire marriage about his past, and whose very identity is fake, but also a man whose exceptional ability to create fiction is very real and the foundation of his very successful career. Only "immature spoiled little child" would reject something like that for good, after giving it a second chance when she first realized who she married.

Man, I gotta say that evidently some things haven't changed as much as we think. ;-)

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H

 

[Michael Reuben]

Maybe I'm alone here, but I think Betty Draper's story just got more interesting.

First of all, I disagree that she doesn't know what she wants. She does: a husband who's faithful and values her as a person, not a possession. She's finally realized why the man she married can't ever be that, because he's play-acting at being the man who married her. (It's Dick Whitman who's always chasing after dark-haired, slightly bohemian women, not Don Draper.) She's been acting unsure, because, as the evidence keeps piling up that her husband can't be what she wants, she's felt more and more trapped.

But she's about to repeat history. She's about to marry a man she scarcely knows, and she going to do it without taking anything from Don, so that she and her children will be completely dependent on the new husband (Henry Francis). She'd better hope that he's everything she expects (which no one ever is), because she'll be stuck with him. Watching her learn to lie in the bed she's just made should present interesting possibilities for drama.

 

[Holadem]

"[COLOR= rgb(24, 24, 24)]Maybe I'm alone here, but I think Betty Draper's story just got more interesting."
[/COLOR]
Me too. I think the "problem" with her character is that her remoteness, perhaps iciness even, makes it hard to relate to her on a gut level. She is far from my favorite character, and I doubt she will be winning any audience popularity polls.

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H

 

[Michael Reuben]

Originally Posted by Holadem

I think the "problem" with her character is that her remoteness, perhaps iciness even, makes it hard to relate to her on a gut level.

I know it sounds strange, but that isn't a problem for me. She's part of an entire generation that was raised to believe the world works a certain way and is finding out it works very differently. I'm not just talking about a sheltered daddy's girl (which she certainly was), but whole segments of the population. I don't think it's accidental, as matter of dramatic expression, that Betty's moment of decision occurs immediately after the Kennedy assassination, which was a line of demarcation in so many ways that I can't begin to count them.

 

[mattCR]

Originally Posted by Michael Reuben

Maybe I'm alone here, but I think Betty Draper's story just got more interesting.

First of all, I disagree that she doesn't know what she wants. She does: a husband who's faithful and values her as a person, not a possession. She's finally realized why the man she married can't ever be that, because he's play-acting at being the man who married her. (It's Dick Whitman who's always chasing after dark-haired, slightly bohemian women, not Don Draper.) She's been acting unsure, because, as the evidence keeps piling up that her husband can't be what she wants, she's felt more and more trapped.

But she's about to repeat history. She's about to marry a man she scarcely knows, and she going to do it without taking anything from Don, so that she and her children will be completely dependent on the new husband (Henry Francis). She'd better hope that he's everything she expects (which no one ever is), because she'll be stuck with him. Watching her learn to lie in the bed she's just made should present interesting possibilities for drama.

I think you assign too many good motives to Betsy. Betsy has always flirted with straying from her marriage. She flirted with the boy at the stable, she had an affair in the bar.. she had considered leaving Don repeatedly before this, only to be won over with big gifts, trips, etc.

In the end, she's leaving Don not because of the lie. She was breaking into the drawer to give her a reason to blow up the marriage, she wanted out long before she knew the lie. The lie was simply the convenience to allow her to feel justified in doing it, to give her the moral high ground. The moment she met Francis, and knew he was enamored with her, she was enchanted. This was her chance to move up the social hierarchy. Don had been relegated to another cog inside of PPL. He had been made into Conrad Hilton's whipping boy.. he wasn't the champion of his own ship anymore. He didn't offer her the chance at power and forward movement... he would be where he was.

Meanwhile, Francis offered her all the things she wanted. Political clout and power. Old money. She was unsure where Don was heading so she bailed. The moment things started to go south with Connie, her plot to get out was full speed ahead.

Now, with Francis, you're right.. interesting drama lies ahead. She may find Francis is less accepting of her capricious parenting methods then Don was. She doesn't have any idea right now.

 

[Patrick_S]

Originally Posted by Holadem I know. What woman wouldn't want to be with a man who not only chronically and casually cheats on her, has lied to her for their entire marriage about his past, and whose very identity is fake, but also a man whose exceptional ability to create fiction is very real and the foundation of his very successful career. Only "immature spoiled little child" would reject something like that for good, after giving it a second chance when she first realized who she married. H

You are making the incorrect assumption that I’m basing my observation that she is an “immature spoiled little child” because she is divorcing Don. What a massive swing and a miss with that one.
Try looking at all of her actions over the last three seasons for the signs they are out there.

 

[Michael Reuben]

Originally Posted by mattCR



I think you assign too many good motives to Betsy. Betsy has always flirted with straying from her marriage. She flirted with the boy at the stable, she had an affair in the bar.. she had considered leaving Don repeatedly before this, only to be won over with big gifts, trips, etc.

In the end, she's leaving Don not because of the lie. She was breaking into the drawer to give her a reason to blow up the marriage, she wanted out long before she knew the lie. The lie was simply the convenience to allow her to feel justified in doing it, to give her the moral high ground. The moment she met Francis, and knew he was enamored with her, she was enchanted. This was her chance to move up the social hierarchy. Don had been relegated to another cog inside of PPL. He had been made into Conrad Hilton's whipping boy.. he wasn't the champion of his own ship anymore. He didn't offer her the chance at power and forward movement... he would be where he was.

Meanwhile, Francis offered her all the things she wanted. Political clout and power. Old money. She was unsure where Don was heading so she bailed. The moment things started to go south with Connie, her plot to get out was full speed ahead.

We are not watching the same show.

When in the first season did Betty Draper "flirt with straying from her marriage"? Her discontent began when she discovered, in the final episode of season 1, that her "therapy" was really just a pretext for Don to spy on her. That was when she began to realize that she was a possession to be managed, not a partner in a marriage of equals. The flirtation with the younger man (hardly a "boy") at the stable followed after that in season 2, and it was just that: a flirtation.
As for the anonymous one-time encounter in the final episode of season 2, calling it an "affair" stretches the meaning of the term beyond recognition. And let's consider the circumstances. By that point, she was certain that Don was having an affair with Bobbie Barrett (which he was), and that this wasn't the first time. He'd also pulled his California disappearing act. And she'd just discovered that she was pregnant again, thereby making it a particularly difficult time to proceed with seeking a divorce (if one makes the correct historical adjustments). That very uncharacteristic fling was an act of rebellion, a giant "fuck you!" to her faithless husband (and January Jones reportedly got huge fan mail from the female viewership after that episode aired).

"She was breaking into the drawer to give her a reason to blow up the marriage"? If that was her motive, she'd hire a P.I. to tail her husband. The simpler explanation is that she was tired of being lied to. Breaking into the drawer was a continuation of her opening the phone bill at the end of season 1. I'm not assigning Betty a "good" motive or a "bad" motive; I'm just identifying the obvious motive. And how does Betty know what's happening with Hilton or where Don's career is heading? It's not as if he actually talks to her about anything.

Finally, how do we know that Henry Francis is "old money"? And when has Betty ever shown any interest in power or political clout? (The reservoir issue was something she stumbled into.) Her entire focus is and always has been on her private life.

 

[Holadem]

MattCR,

So Betty Draper is essentially a gold digger. Wow. Your post is most fascinating to me, because I couldn't possibly disagree more with your perception of her, for reasons perfectly articulated my Michael. But I remain literally astonished that one should, not only look beyond Don's grotesque treatment of his wife and marriage to explain her departure, but actually find those alternative reasons more convincing than his mind-boggling dishonesty and tremendous capacity for deception.

Go back to Season 2 and look at what Betty went through before finally kicking Don out of the house. How she knew for fact that he was cheating, looked everywhere for evidence without success, and how he, knowing how much he was hurting her, would stand there, and not only lie (that's normal enough for anyone in that situation), but do it in the most sneering, patronizing, condescending and contemptuous way (paraphrasing) "YOU are the problem, not me; now go get some rest".

There is an exchange which perfectly sums it up in one of those S2 episodes, when she spent the whole day going through his stuff and found nothing. She told him that when he came home, and then she said: "Why are you doing this to me? I would never do this to you." I found that utterly heartbreaking: She was not asking why he was cheating on her. She was asking why he could still stand there denying her the release of vindication for what they both knew was true. At that point, it was no longer the adultery, it was Don's (necessary) cruelty in the face of suffering he caused.

--
H

 

[mattCR]

Originally Posted by Holadem

MattCR,
There is an exchange which perfectly sums it up in one of those S2 episodes, when she spent the whole day going through his stuff and found nothing. She told him that when he came home, and then she said: "Why are you doing this to me? I would never do this to you." I found that utterly heartbreaking: She was not asking why he was cheating on her. She was asking why he could still stand there denying her the release of vindication for what they both knew was true. At that point, it was no longer the adultery, it was Don's (necessary) cruelty in the face of suffering he caused.

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H

I guess we perceive this totally differently. You're moment wehre she said "Why aer you doing this to me? I would never do this to you?" framed it to me as though she was so dishonest she was holding Don to a standard completely different then her own. After all, by the time this conversation occurred, we had several rumors of her having affairs, and then, within that episode if memory serves, she followed through in full view, nailing a random guy in a bar.

I guess I saw that situation totally differently. My wife had a much more negative view of Betty then I did. I'm not saying she's a gold digger, Francis doesn't have more money necessarily then Don. But he has prestige. He comes from a better "lineage", which she now knows Don doesn't have.

Betty's cruel and somewhat demented behavior toward her kids, open flirting and nailing of strays doesn't necessarily make her white as the driven snow.

What I found more telling about that scene wasn't that Don had done something terrible and lied about it. It was that Betty was putting forward a crazily hypocritical standard on him, in light of all her actions the past seasons, which she didn't tell him. It was kind of pot-kettle-black "I'd never do this to you" except she did just that all season long.

Combine that up with her behavior toward her own kids.. and think that's going to improve with Don out of the picture? Now they will be the kids of the man she regrets.. more reason to neglect them and treat them badly.
Yeah, I have no sympathy at all for Betty. Don may sleep around. But I never watched eps where he grabbed the hypocritical perch while treating his kids like crap.

Child abusers are pretty low on my list of those who need sympathy. I mean, I guess locking your kids in the closets, slamming doors at them, and berating them ...

I Love January Jones in the role. I think it's difficult to play such a polarizing figure. This isn't saying I think Don's an angel. I think he too is a man of incredible faults who has been a douchebag off and on. Thing about Don, though, is we keep seeing redeeming acts of charity... bailing Peggy out, providing for the man who's life he assumed, even moments where he works with his kids while Betty roles her eyes and dissapears.

Just me. I understand how others feel differently. But she's a great character I love to hate.

 

[JonZ]

I found quite a few episodes this season to be a bit dull.

Last 2 episodes were really great. I watched the last 3 just now back to back and the final 2 made for a couple great hours of television.

oh yea, and Petes wife is simply beautiful. What kind of whack job would cheat on her?

 

[Michael Reuben]

Originally Posted by mattCR


Don may sleep around. But I never watched eps where he grabbed the hypocritical perch while treating his kids like crap.

You've got to be kidding. Don lives on the hypocritical perch. For all of the first two seasons, and much of the third, he was a hypocrite every time he set foot in that house. And as for treating his kids like crap, again we're watching different shows. I'd rather have Betty as a mother than Don as a father. He's hardly there, and when he is, he barely pays attention to his kids. That was not uncommon for the era, but that doesn't make it admirable.

Originally Posted by mattCR


Child abusers are pretty low on my list of those who need sympathy. I mean, I guess locking your kids in the closets, slamming doors at them, and berating them ...

So now Betty's a child abuser because she disciplines her kids in ways that were fairly common at the time (and may still be, for all I know)? It's interesting when people are willing to make the proper "period" adjustments for some characters' behavior but not for others.

Originally Posted by mattCR

Thing about Don, though, is we keep seeing redeeming acts of charity..

Toward everyone except the people to whom he most owes it: his own family. Because they're really not his family, but rather a bunch of possessions he picked up along the way of creating an alternate identity. His real family, as he's now come to realize, lives in the memories that kept flashing back to him throughout season 3, and those are the emotional sources that fuel him in everything he does with any genuine passion -- including leading Sterling, Cooper and Price in their charge out the agency doors. All this makes him a fascinating character, but a shit for a husband.

 

[mattCR]

You've got to be kidding. Don lives on the hypocritical perch. For all of the first two seasons, and much of the third, he was a hypocrite every time he set foot in that house. And as for treating his kids like crap, again we're watching different shows. I'd rather have Betty as a mother than Don as a father. He's hardly there, and when he is, he barely pays attention to his kids. That was not uncommon for the era, but that doesn't make it admirable.
I'm not sure how you see this.. hypocritical for walking into his own house? Because he had an affair? I guess I don't see it. Meanwhile, Betty kept up affairs of sorts, lied openly about them, and then used her faked chastity as a means to berate Don "I'd never do this to you.." as Holadem noted, except she did EXACTLY that for the first two season.. as far as 'barely pays attention to his kids' are we also watching different shows?
Repeatedly Betsy called for the harshest punishments, and Don refused. When she asked him to take a belt to the kid, he refused, and gave her the story of how he was beaten as a kid, and it accomplished nothing, and he wouldn't be hated by his own kids. Let's remember these fine moments:

Bobby plays with and breaks household items. In a huff, Betsy repeatedly berates the kid and hauls him off to the hospital for a minor burn at one point, because he "can't deal" with her daughter, who then goes to work with Don. Later, when Bobby plays with a toy at dinner, Betsy demands he starts beating the kids. Don explains he doesn't believe in it, because all that happened to him was that he wanted to "kill his own father" for beating him.
The message doesn't at all sink in on Betsy, who then complains to her therapist that Don's a big wuss for not beating the kids. (S1). And Betsy's reactions got continuously weirder.. in season 1, she used her own daughter's riding lessons as an excuse to get close and flirt with a fellow jockey.

So, as far as hypocrisy, it cuts both ways. If being a hypocrit is stepping foot in the house while you're cheating, Betsy has been guilty from the first few episodes in the show, and her other baggage is far more disturbing to me.

Now, if the argument is, "he's a hypocrit for living as Don Draper, not Dick Whitman".. I don't see any hypocrisy there at all. He never espoused the virtues of living one's own identity, so hard to be hypocritical on that issue.. it just is what it is.

So now Betty's a child abuser because she disciplines her kids in ways that were fairly common at the time (and may still be, for all I know)? It's interesting when people are willing to make the proper "period" adjustments for some characters' behavior but not for others.

No, no matter what the time period, some behavior is repugnant. What Don did in assuming an identity is a sad story that has problems; then again, no physical person was hurt and the widow was taken care of... so I don't hold that against him in any way. Don's affairs.. again, not his brightest spot.. but then again, he never went using some sort of measuring stick to chastise Betsy "I'd never do that to you" while he was doing it.. she did that.
As far as being away from the kids/etc.. um, let's remember, outside of him being the defender of the kids in several instances, he also was the only one paying enough attention to the kids to realize their daughter was having a difficult time with death (Grandpa) and the naming of the kid was creeping her out. More then that, he tried to offer the kid solace while Betsy went batshit on the kid and just blew up on her.

Toward everyone except the people to whom he most owes it: his own family. Because they're really not his family, but rather a bunch of possessions he picked up along the way of creating an alternate identity. His real family, as he's now come to realize, lives in the memories that kept flashing back to him throughout season 3, and those are the emotional sources that fuel him in everything he does with any genuine passion -- including leading Sterling, Cooper and Price in their charge out the agency doors. All this makes him a fascinating character, but a shit for a husband.

Hmm. Again, I understand the viewpoint that he's a womanizer. Then again, you can find tons of men through history who were womanizers. I don't see a lot of people going "that scumbag JFK, what a womanizer". As far as the though "they aren't his family" I guess I always see Betty as having that viewpoint. She has treated her kids as complete trophies from Season 1. They are a nuisance to be fobbed off on a nanny unless she needs them to get her close to a man or needs to vent frustration. When her kids have needed serious help, I can't think of an episode where they have run to Betsy. Bobby having trouble with sleeping and anger. Does he talk to Betsy? No, because she refuses to talk to him.

I agree with the "shit of a husband" bit.. I'm not going to encourage what Don has done over the past three seasons.. but we paint far too rosey of an image of Betsy to make Don a scumbag.

Betsy's hitched her wagon now.. and it will be interesting where it goes.

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on how we see the Draper marriage

 

[Sam Favate]

It took me the whole season, but I finally caught up and watched the finale last night. Great way to end the season.

The Kennedy assassination is reverberating throughout these characters' lives. Things that they recently thought they could never do now seem more accessible. The world has changed, and characters seem to be saying "Screw it; the world sucks and I'm going to break through this wall I thought was there." Betty leaving Don. Don, Roger and the others starting a new agency. Lane taking matters into his own hands and allowing the creation of the new firm. And so on.

This is a tremendous series, easily on a par with the Sopranos as one of the very best things to come to the small screen.

 

[TravisR]

I caught the finale last night and it was one of the best episodes of the series.

 

[Michael Reuben]

Originally Posted by mattCR

Now, if the argument is, "he's a hypocrit for living as Don Draper, not Dick Whitman".. I don't see any hypocrisy there at all. He never espoused the virtues of living one's own identity, so hard to be hypocritical on that issue.. it just is what it is.

Well there we have it. I find that attitude more disturbing than any behavior exhibited by Betty Draper in the show's three seasons.

Question: You keep referring to Betty's "affairs of sorts". What exactly are you talking about? What are you trying to equate with Don's multiple prowlings? I think it would be interesting to flesh out the double standard here.