Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'Movies' started by montrealfilmguy, Sep 27, 2011.
Johnny Depp mugging for the camera in eyeliner AGAIN? I'll PASS.
The Lone Ranger may seem archaic due to the fact that Westerns evolved from larger than life romances into gritty "real life" romances. Still, the character is rooted in Western mythology, not fantasy. He may have worn a mask and lived in an idealized Old West, but his story is still firmly based on Western tropes: horses, gunslinging and HUMAN adversaries such as outlaws and cattle barons. If they can't update the character and make a film that is true to those roots then they shouldn't bother making one at all. The Lone Ranger vs Werewolves is just a retarded concept.
Somehow I don't think everything has to be etched in stone. They turned Treasure Island into a fun sci-fi thing once with space ships and robots. Not saying this is the same thing, I'm just saying I'm one who doesn't mind if they change a bit. Why does it have to be exactly to some set specifications. could just be a fun movie inspired by all these things you're listing.
A Texas Ranger who rides around righting wrongs in a muskrat mask is a retarded concept.
Actually, the first westerns in the silent era were historical docudramas and gritty real-life stories. They still observed the essential building blocks of dramatic structure, but they were connected to how the pioneers lived in down-to-earth ways. I have about 200 pre-1920 westerns on DVD-R -- not many, compared to what's been lost, but enough to judge the tone and temper of the genre. William S. Hart's early films, in particular, are serious dramas about western life, virtually devoid of mythology. You might say that by the mid-1920s the American western started to devolve into romantic myth-making and idealism.
In any case, down-to-earth westerns never stopped intruding into the mythological western. Perhaps 1out of every 200 is down-to-earth. Although audiences receive down-to-earth westerns the same way because the mythological west is a state of mind which people bring into the theater with them, like baggage.
Shouldn't the failure of Cowboys vs. Aliens have been a warning that audiences aren't interested in Western genre crossovers that are too literal? I'd maybe see a Lone Ranger movie if it was they just played the story straight: The lone survivor of an ambush on six Texas rangers by a band of outlaws is saved and nursed back to health by a Native American he himself saved during his career as a ranger. Together, they bring the outlaws to justice and make them atone for their crimes. There's enough there to fill a movie with. You don't need to add werewolves into the mix. My interest immediately plummets when you do.
Again, in reality it is. I'm not sure why you're trying to make an American icon from the days of radio, and the golden age of television out to be historically accurate.
Its like saying Lassie is a dumb concept because Collie dogs don't really help people, and couldn't possibly be that smart. We get the fact the in the world of entertainment small, and big screen characters are sometimes created to make us forget our troubles and escape for a little while to a "fantasy land". And if it is done correctly it will do exactly that.
Of course liberties will be taken for the sake of entertainment.
I would hate to hear how you feel about super heroes like Batman, and Superman.
I didn't try to make the Lone Ranger look as if he was historically accurate.
The whole point is that he's not historically accurate and that he's not believable even on imaginary terms.
Go back and read the post again
Wasn't this for children? lol Don't mean to insult anyone on their opinions, but Lone Ranger is definitely something that should bring out your inner child or you should perhaps avoid anything like it. Being a MEGA-HUGE-FREAKIN-GIGANTIC fan of old kid's TV I have no problem with Lone Ranger getting done like this. I'm still waiting for my Krofft movies. Sigmund and the Seamonsters The Movie! lol
I think of the Lone Ranger as one of the super-hero bunch set in the Old West. Of course he's got no powers so he's more like Batman. Both are in essence, vigilantes. I grew up with both of these characters so I'm quite able to accept either as potentially rip roarin' entertainment. I've no problem with a western comic book hero, which is what The Lone Ranger is, except he wasn't inspired by the comic books (to my knowledge).
If they make a good movie, this will do well at the box office. The audience will respond to the movie according to its quality, I don't believe there's a built-in handicap because it's a super-hero in the West.
Richard, I think those pics you posted are more of a sign of the times they were made. That Hollywood era, everything was clean, and yes unrealistic.
I dont think the concept itself is doomed, more the interpretation of the time, was more campy, and looking at it today, I agree it looks silly.
Thats why I made that comment about not being so fond of the older style westerns - theyre just too clean and tidy, the clothes arent authentic,etc.
The more authentic clothes are a good idea, and a white hat might not have been as rare as you think. Im no historian - they have advisors for that sort of thing, but...
Ok, so The Lone Ranger is not historically accurate. So what? Why not just suspend disbelief? Like James said, he was created for kids. And fits perfectly in the "super hero" mythos. Not being believable on imaginary terms? That is proposterous. On imaginary terms he could fly, and spit fire and the audience could accpet it.
I guess a vigilante in the old west wearing a white hat, and a blue uniform(well now black) with an Indian sidekick is so far out in left field that most of the movie going public will just roll their eyes and scream "give me a break". Or maybe not. Did you know 'Batman Begins' grossed over $300 mil?
Brisco County Jr.
Throw in some sci-fi and you'd have that.
You have a way of missing the point.
Are you being willfully obtuse?
You are correct that The Lone Ranger is preposterous. See, we found something to agree on.
Johnny Depp, a white American who lives in France, playing a Native American is an insult.
Native Americans are actors, too, and they need work just like any other actor.
Tonto has always been played by Native Americans -- first by Jay Silverheels, later by Michael Horse.
Depp should have the awareness and the sensitivity to stand down and withdraw from the production.
you're no fun anymore
- Monty Python
It's not the first time a Native American was played by a white man. Disney probably feels a 'big name' will draw a bigger audience.
But this is just a movie. Nothing to get bent out of shape over.
About the fact that you say the Lone Ranger is not historically accurate, and a retarded concept.
I respond with the fact that The Lone Ranger is a ficticious character that should not be over analyzed. A 'super hero' of the old West created to entertain people. Is ZORRO on your hit list also?
This is not missing the point. This is responding to your claims that a ficticious character is a retarded concept.
You dislike The Lone Ranger, but I happen to enjoy the character and look forward to seeing this film.
I don't dislike The Lone Ranger. I just can't suspend disbelief in him. He is not a superhero, and he does not have super-powers. A superhero in the American west is not believable, either. The Lone Ranger is essentially a clown, innocuous and disconnected from any sense of reality. Even in the imaginary west, there has to be something true-to-life that audiences can identify with and relate to.
Just because white actors played Native Americans in the past is no reason to continue the discrimination.
There is an historical basis for Zorro in Tom Powers and in Juaquin Murietta, who -- among many others -- became social bandits when California was sold to the USA. They refused to die quietly when the rancheros and Spanish Land Grants were being absorbed into a new social order and dissolving under the gold rush. Neither lived long. The first was hung and the other beheaded. Of the two, I prefer the lesser known Powers whose activities in the presidio of Los Angeles actually resembled Zorro, to some degree. Neither was as altruistic as Don Diego de la Vega. There is an historical foundation on which an imaginary Zorro, as a hero, can build a believable and even realistic scenario that would be very compelling indeed. The original Zorro stories by Johnston McCulley are among my favorite early westerns. It would take just a nudge here and there to move Zorro into the believable realm. That will never happen, not while Warner Brothers controls the property, and not while gender and male role deconstructions continue to be their pre-occupation. The Martin Campbell versions were confused and just hopeless, hopeless, hopeless.
Boy, this thread went down hill in a hurry. I think if done right this could be pretty cool but with that pic of Depp, I have my doubts. I'm at a point now with all the reboots, if I like it great if not I can always just pretend it didn't happen-like I did with Star Trek. If I don't like it, I still have the radio shows and tv shows. I'd love to see a new tv series though, done right.
Depp looks cool to me. I like what I see. However, I can relate to Depp not looking right. Alice is my favorite story (I have the books of course, and almost every version filmed) but I didn't like how the mad hatter looked. And he was usually the main focus of the marketing on it. grrrooooaaaan...
Depp should have the awareness and the sensitivity to withdraw?! Depp is on record stating that his great-grandmother was Native American. Does he need to be full-blooded to not offend you? Honestly, take a good look at his facial features and bone structure and tell me again just how "white" Johnny Depp is. My wife's best friend is blond haired and blue eyed yet received scholarships and the like for being something like 1/8th Native American. Who gets to decide if someone is "Native" enough to play Tonto? You? Seriously, this seems like a crazy reason to be upset over this movie.
The Lone Ranger is escapist fun, and like some others in this thread, I think it stands a decent chance of doing big business. If people could suspend disbelief enough to accept Roger Moore being able to beat up, oh I don't know, anybody as 007, then I guess I don't see why a Texas Ranger wearing a mask is preposterous.
People says all sorts of things, and Depp in particular will say anything. I don't believe a word he says. Tonto wearing white-face and a stuffed crow (at least I think it's stuffed) on his head with the wings spread out. That isn't Indian war paint, it's drag-queen plumage.
With regard to The Lone Ranger as entertainment ... okay. I acquiesce.
The above is a full-size theater lobby stand-up from 1956,