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"Jonny Quest" And "The Jetsons" -- Two Personal DVD Reviews (1 Viewer)

pitchman

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I picked up the Jonny Quest set the other day and I agree wholeheartedly with the general assessment here. These episodes look fantastic!

After reading Jeff's post, I have to admit that I am now somewhat disappointed in this "archival" set. Just out of curiosity, is there a possible legal route for these artisans to take with regards to the omission of their creative credits? I assume most of this was done as 'work for hire' at the time, but perhaps someone from the Doug Wildey estate (since he is widely regarded as the key creator of the series) can apply some legal pressure on Warner Home Video to get these properly restored and help initiate an exchange program.

We will probably never know for certain how this end credit snafu came about, but I have a theory.

I am guessing that "Double Danger" (which has correct end credits) was either worked on by a different production team (or at the very least, at a different point in time.) Since Double Danger is the "pop-up video" episode in the supplements, additional posting was required to create it. Maybe the supplemental section was handled by a different team and they received a copy of that episode before the others so they would have the pop-up episode completed on schedule. When the rest of the episodes were transferred, someone may have decided to just transfer one show open (which doesn't change, BTW) and one show close and then edit those on to all of the other episodes. Since Double Danger was already completely transferred, there would be no point in revisiting that episode. I guess in theory this may have saved some small amount of film-to-digital transfer time, but at what cost?

The only other quibble I have with this set is the same issue I have with a lot of DVD mono soundtracks. I wish Warner had given us a two-track mono mix instead of center channel only. Just a personal preference here...

Gary
 

Carlos Garcia

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I just saw the Las Venus episode of The Jetsons. The entire episode has black scratches running up and down the right side of the screen. Is this the best print Warners could find? The episode looks scratchy and the film looks dirty throughout. Don't you think for the price we paid for this set they could've at least cleaned up the prints, if not re-mastering the entire set? Don't get me wrong, I love this set and am happy we got them, but don't you think we got a little overcharged for the set, considering none of it was re-mastered? All they apparently did was copy existing syndication video masters to DVD with no cleaning of the prints whatsoever. Does this warrant the high price being charged for this and other HB sets?
 

David Von Pein

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Excepts from an interesting discussion I had at the www.classicjonnyquest.com Forum today ...........

>> "Hi everyone. I'm Lance Falk, former Real Adventures JQ writer and fan correspondent. (I'm also soundbyted on the new CJQ DVD.)

Here's what little I know about future DVD releases.

Warner Brothers is slowly issuing the HB library on DVD. Baby steps at first to test the market, then they'll go more into the "cult" shows if there seems to be a consumer demand.

Personally, I love all the HB shows produced before 1969 and would buy any of them . I'm happy that they did the all- time best one so early in the rotation, Aren't you?

You've seen the more obvious titles at first: Flintstones, Scooby, Jetsons, JQ.

A third wave of discs is being prepped even now. Including Wacky Races, Top Cat, and Flintstones Season 2. (Maybe Scooby season 2 as well.)

Master designers (and great guys)Iwao Takamoto and Jerry Isenberg were interviewed for Wacky Races.

If I were a betting man, I'd guess that they will continue issuing the Scooby and Flintstones multi-year runs along with two or three other "First Seasons" of other shows...Yogi, Huckleberry Hound, Space Ghost, Herculoids, Quick Draw McGraw, etc. Two or three batches a year.

WB is also making an effort to do the DC superheroes in better box sets. (Starting with Batman TAS and Superfriends)A few at first, and then more if the sales go well.

Alex Ross (another great guy) was also interviewed for the Superfriends release.

They probably put "The Entire First Season" and a numeral #1 on box sets of only one season shows just in case they want to followup Classic shows with the later incarnations. There was also a large 80's Jetson run too if you recall (with ....yeech! Orbitty).

I'm gonna guess that the priority is to put out the classic shows on DVD before you get the later revamps (I agree with this 100%).

But if/when they ever release the later versions, they can continue the numbering on the spines, etc. to try and hook the completest collector types.

You're all smart enough to know the only "Real" (and by far the best) JQ is Doug's classic. The following efforts (some good, some less so. Feel free to judge them as you will) will probably see digital release eventually.

On a personal note: I just hope they keep those wretched season one RJQ's away from mine. Separate box sets please, so the stink won't get onto ours...and I won't have to buy "gems" like Jersey Devil, and Okefenoke Vikings just to get my own eps!

But back to the CJQ set:

I know they tried to contact Tim Matheson. He wasn't available. Tim's a busy TV Director AND actor, so that's understandable. Don Mesick is gone, Vic (Zin) Perrin is gone. Danny Bravo and Mike Road proved impossible to track down in the time allowed.

That's why you were stuck with famous fans (Brad Bird, Alex Ross, etc.) and Yours Truly. (Not so famous as the others, but I know my stuff when it comes to JQ!)

I guess that's it. Thanks for supporting the greatest animated adventure ever!

Lance (Jade's sponge boy)"

------------------------------

I then asked Lance:

>> "Hi Lance:

Thanks very much for your posts here @ CJQ.com. Excellent reading. I thoroughly enjoyed your expert comments here.

But, tell me (and us): What are your thoughts on the "censoring" of the Po-Ho episode in two places?

Since you were personally involved in the DVD project (at least at some level), do you have any knowledge as to why these edits were made (or by whom specifically)?

Of course, we all pretty much know the "Why" part I suppose. But I just thought you might have some more details on the reasoning behind these silly edits made by WB.

Were they truly concerned about this "awful" (LOL!) language scarring the children that might be subjected to it via the DVDs? Or are there other reasons do you think?

Thanks.
David VP"

-------------------------

>> "Hi David. Thanks for the kind words.

My feelings here may surprise you, but I don't really mind the edits. That Heathen Monkey line IS pretty heavy-handed, racist, and out of tone for the show. Not only is "monkey" racist, but the "heathen" part is a slam against their tribal religion!

Like most artists and/or writers, (I do a bit of both) I despise censorship, but Race's dialogue here is embarassing and beyond the pale.

Those lines stand out like a sore thumb in the classic series and shouldn't have been there in the first place (a rare lapse in judgement for old HB). I

n fact, it was the first thing I checked. "If they cut anything, it's gonna be that 'heathen monkey' comment."

On the other hand, I don't see the big deal about "ignorant savages". Unsophisticated and violent? Yep. That fits.

One of the many virtues of the series was a celebration of different cultures the world over. These other peoples, cultures, and nations were respected.

...except for that one line.

So, yeah. I understand the edit. (I don't know who made the decision to cut it. Someone on the main WB lot, I suppose)

I agree for the most part. However, If the show went out with it intact, it's not like the world would have come to an end, either. (Think of the uncensored Batman Beyond movie).

I AM unhappy about the end credit reuse and the deletion of the bumper...and I think Steve Rude should have been comissioned to do a more Doug-like front cover.

But overall we have the series in the best copies ever released. They are in digital format. They look and sound great. Make no mistake. This is a win for we CJQ fans. The deficiencies are minor and are VERY outweighed by the benefits.

Oh. For the record, my participation in the disc was to do a mini interview for a company that was sub-contracted to do the extras. Those guys (huge fans of the show, Jonathon and Jason) didn't know how the series would be treated either.

But I always thought "I wonder if they are gonna censor that "Heathen Monkeys" line....which means, like it of not, there IS an issue here.

Thanks again for writing.

Lance (Chu Sin Ling's Human Guinea Pig)"

-----------------------

Then an irate post from some idiot:

>> "Typical liberal point of view. Who are you to judge what is out of character and should be cut out? Liberals are always against censorship when it's censoring something they believe in. When it's not, they prove to be the most intolerant, in general. You can't judge these comments by today's politically correct environment. This was the early 60's- before the complete infiltration of peoples from every 3rd world country. This cartoon show have been left untouched. Why don't you move down and live with the PO-HO for awile-and take your liberal friends with you."

----------------------------

>> "Holy smokes...I didn't intend to stir up a hornet's nest of "Heathens" when I asked the simple question of Lance re. his thoughts on the edits.

And, IMO, Dave H.'s overblown comments are totally out of line in this thread.

Everybody's entitled to his opinion, and Lance has given his on the matter in a forthright fashion here.

I am not in agreement (at all) with Lance's views re. these censored lines; but if that's his opinion, I respect it.

Just to repeat my earlier comments on this -- I think it's somewhat important here to look at the "context" and situation in which Race uttered these two lines --- He was, in essence, playing SOMEBODY ELSE at the time he said these things. IOW, he was intentionally over-doing it for the sake of playing up the "God" he was playing.

Of course, the words would still be the same regardless of Race's 'acting' in the guise of the purple 'God'. But it is, in fact, not really "Race", but instead "Akesio", who's telling off the Po-Ho.

But, regardless of this fact, I still think it's dead wrong for WB to DECIDE FOR THE MASSES what is offensive & what isn't.

It's especially silly considering this ISN'T an over-the-air network broadcast of JQ. It's a HOME VIDEO release! The reason to edit a Home Video tape/disc is non-existent, IMO! Nill!

As has been said, the 1990s VHS tapes contain these lines. And EVERY OTA broadcast (I believe) since 1964!

Have people's sensitivities changed THAT much since the 1990s?! I doubt it.

Lance: Thanks very much for your detailed response to my "Po-Ho Edits" inquiry."

David VP

------------------------
 

Jeff_HR

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I guess like most corporations they want to pad their bottom line. Equaling the most profit for them for the least output of effort & money on their part. Exception to that "Rule" a rare but very welcomed.
 

Carlos Garcia

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I think that should be left to the viewer. Since the language was used and kept in originally, it should've stayed and have been allowed to be kept in on the DVD set. Let's remember the line is still kept in when the show airs on Boomerang. Just how many "children" went out and bought the DVD set? And How many children watch Boomerang by comparison? Where's the logic here? It's tampering with the original. How many times was the "N" word used on All In The Family? Was the show edited for the DVD set? Censorship is censorship no matter where it's done, and there's no excuse for it. Might as well have storm troopers go door to door in order to confiscate all the old Jonny Quest VHS tapes that still exist, where the original language was kept in. Oooops, I better not give anyone any ideas.
 

Paul Miller

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As a writer, I don't agree with censorship, however this seems like it is being blown out of proportion. They are just censoring two lines in a whole season's worth of cartoons. It isn't like they are cutting footage or redubbing new audio.

A lot of parents are going to get these for their kids and they are going to be sitting down and watching these DVDs alone while their parents are doing something else thinking that they bought these old wholesome cartoons from back in the day not remembering those two old lines.

It isn't just adults buying these sets and while we may be able to decide for ourselves, you have to keep in mind the whole audience.

Paul
 

TonyD

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someone please explain to these folks why censoring is just not good.

it's really easy enough to sit down with a kid and say to him,
"son/daughter did you here what that guy just said?
well it's wrong for people to talk that way. and here's why....."
 

David Von Pein

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Zero. (AFAIK.)
I never recall Archie go so far as to utilize the dreaded "N" word.

However, Archibald does use such endearing and well-meaning terms as "Yit", "Dago", "Jungle Bunnies", "Spics", "Black Beauties", "Coons", "Mick", and "Chinks".

And almost every one of the above escaped from Mr. Bunker's lips in just the first episode of the series!

Can you imagine AITF being subject to such rigid censorship for the DVD? Half the eps. would be silent. :laugh:

Of course, that would beg the question: If it aired originally in 1971 (in AITF's case), then WHY (for God's sake) should it be subject to edits in 2004, for a HOME VIDEO release??!!

I cannot believe how stupid this is, to censor out originally aired dialogue from a DVD release!
 

Paul Miller

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All in the Family was the South Park of its day and except much, much bigger. It was a very controversial show. It wasn't accepted for people to use that language back when it was aired but it was tolerated. While I loved the show, I wouldn't let my young children watch those shows uncensored. Kids love to repeat words they hear.

Mind you, I don't believe All in the Family should be censored. That is an adult show and it is meant for adults. But it is a whole different case with cartoons...

Little kids aren't going to be sitting there watching All in the Family or Dallas on DVD on loop, but they are going to be watching cartoons like Jonny Quest.

You can give the kids the spiel about not using language, but most parents are likely to have that conversation AFTER their kids use it.

Paul
 

David Von Pein

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Yeah, I know what you mean, Paul.

I know (if I had any kids) I'd whip 'em into submission if I EVER, EVER heard them using that awful, foul, worse-than-the-"F"-word term "Ignorant Savages"!!

Just *imagine* the horror of hearing those words coming from your child's lips!

*shuddering with fright @ the prospect*
















;)
 

Paul Miller

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;) I really do agree that they overreacted to the "ignorant savages" line because they were "savages" and they were "ignorant." That was a case of political correctness acting up when there was no case to act up.

But the "heathen monkey" part even in context was really harsh for Jonny Quest... I actually do think they should have kept "heathen" part but the "monkey" part is overtly racist.

I never thought a show I watched right after Rocky & Bullwinkle at 6:30 in the morning every Saturday for years would cause this much controversy.

Paul
 

Carlos Garcia

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This country has been going backwards ever since political correctness started. I remember reading a department store Santa Claus got fired and got sued a couple of years ago because he called a little kid a "cute little monkey". This used to be an innocent term that meant nothing more than cute. However since the child happened to be of color, they blew the whole thing out of proportion. As far as the term "heathen monkey" being used on Jonny Quest, if I was Race Bannon, and my best friend was about to be sacrificed, you can bet my language would be alot harsher than "heathen monkey". Anyway, since none of the Po-Hos could even speak english, if nothing more, I suppose Race saved himself from a lawsuit. :)
 

David Von Pein

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You're darn tootin' !! :)

Another thing to keep in mind re. this debate (and it's incredible we even have to discuss such relatively-tame comments actually be edited from a Home Video product, but, it's out there now) ........

"Race" Bannon isn't really "Race" at the moments he's using the offensive terms -- he's pretending to be a make-believe God, and is obviously deliberately "over-doing it" a tad bit to let these "Monkeys" know that God "Akesio" means business.

Now, obviously, a "Heathen Monkey" comment is still just that (verbally) on the soundtrack. But in the context of the script, with Race really not "playing Race" at that exact moment, it makes the comments a bit less harsh (in a literal sense), IMO.

Of course, as mentioned by Carlos, the dang monkeys couldn't speak a word of English, so it wouldn't have made any difference WHAT Race/Akesio had shouted at them. He could have been inviting the best-looking Po-Ho to the Senior Prom for all the savages knew. :laugh:

Now -- How long will it be before Charles Montgomery Burns has many of his less-than-apple-pie comments to Homer excised from the Simpsons' DVDs? Hopefully not soon, or Burns will no doubt release the hounds on any such idiot @ FOX who thinks it's necessary.

"Ah, Simpson, eh? Is that the gold-bricker from Sector 7? I shall remember that name..."

 

Scott Hamilton

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Agreed David VP

So when Homer called Bart "your a little monkey, aren't you? you little monkey"

So I guess thats got to go? For those who say calling someone a monkey is racist?

Censoring is wrong on all levels...

Who will Censor the Censors? Who will babysit the Babysitters?
 

Jeff Krispow

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Just an addendum to my complaint of the missing JONNY QUEST credits —

This problem isn't just isolated to the JONNY QUEST set, it also occurs on THE JETSONS set, and is actually slightly worse, if you can believe it. For THE JETSONS, every single episode uses the exact same end credits sequence.

I'm not exactly sure which episode it is that the credits actually belong to, since I don't have a complete "Jetsons" production guide in my personal archives. But these credits feature "Teleplay By: Tony Benedict," who only wrote six episodes of the series. Lucky Tony, he now gets the sole credit for writing the entire season — I suppose he should be happy about his "miraculous accomplishment."

Thankfully, at least the real writers for each episode DO get some credit — the title card at the start of each episode does list the correct writer.

I haven't taken a look at THE FLINTSTONES set yet, but something tells me that it too doesn't use the proper credits.

I did speak with my wife regarding the legalities of using improper credits (she's an actress), and she said that Warner could be opening themselves up to some series issues with the various guilds — for example, the Writer's Guild could likely take action against Warner over this. The same goes for whatever guilds oversee the voice-over and animation artists.

And frankly, I really hope that some of these folks DO file complaint and demand their proper credits restored. This is definitely turinng into a VERY disturbing trend. This really wasn't a problem until Turner bought the shows — since they did that, they seem to have a major problem keeping the proper end credits on the episodes. Quite often when watching these shows, I'd like to know who some of the other voice actors were… no way I'll ever be able to find out now.

I know some folks here don't think this is a big deal, but how would you feel if they started doing this for all TV show products? Let's use good 'ole original STAR TREK (or insert any other favorite TV show name here) as an example. How would folks feel if Paramount used the "Spock's Brain" credits on all the episodes? Wouldn't quite be the same…

These credits were originally included on these shows for a purpose, and this footage is no less important than the opening credits or any other footage in the show itself. It doesn't matter if it's an animated series, a live action series, a CITIZEN KANE or a SHORT CIRCUIT, these Hanna-Barbera cartoons should be treated with the same respect given to all other DVD product. Give proper credit where credit is due…

(I really gotta talk to Lance and see if he has any further information about this mess… If anyone else finds out anything, please post it here.)

Regards,
 

Jeff_HR

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It appears that WB is starting to tarnish a reputation that was starting to really shine. Too bad that they can't get this right. :frowning: :frowning: :frowning: :frowning:
 

Scott Hamilton

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Or is WB thinking what most people think? You are a bunch of losers who hang out on the the internet just looking for this sort of stuff just to make yourself look good and bitch about something. They would say Ending credits? We don't even watching them.

Well I say they are wrong and will always be wrong. We are the people buying the DVD's we want the original uncut versions not 80% of it.

I wonder what these people would say if everytime they bought a case of soda pop they only got 21 cans instead of 24? Would they except it?
 

Carlos Garcia

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Has anyone else noticed the Jonny Quest episode ROBOT SPY seems to experience some dot crawl? I notice whenever a scene cuts, the immediate frames before and after show unusual looking dots on the screen. It's not really noticeable unless you're looking for it, but I was wondering if this only appears on my set or if that particular episode was just mastered this way.
 

David Von Pein

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Carlos: I hadn't really noticed any "dot crawl" (per se)....but I have noticed that the "Robot Spy" ep. is not quite as perfectly crystal-clear-looking as most of the other 26 eps. in the set/series.

You can't Freeze-Frame an image on "Robot Spy" as clearly as on other eps.

Still, it looks very good, if just slightly less so than other eps.

BTW --- I now agree with someone else (either here @ HTF or someone I was talking to at the JQ website; can't recall which) who said that ALL of the Opening Title sequences are identical to one another.

They saved some re-mastering $$ I would imagine by just souping-up ONE set of open credits (much like with the closing credits).

The reason I think I can safely say that all the openings are the same is because of the "S" in "JONNY QUEST". When they show Jonny during the opening, his name comes up -- and it appears a small piece of dirt is covering a tiny bit of the letter "S" of his name. And this same "covering of the S" occurs in each episode (that I have seen thus far anyway), indicating the same opening being utilized for each DVD transfer.

This, of course, isn't nearly as big a deal as the closing-credits debate -- because the opening is identical anyway, from one ep. to the next; while ALL 26 shows had wholly-different end titles, which are not represented on the WB DVDs.
 

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