I've fallen in love with a pit bull (1 Viewer)

[Rain]

Sorry I haven't been around in the last couple of days, but I appreciate all of the information being shared.

...just realize you're taking on a big responsiblity.

As the Wise Man once said, "Duh."

Anyway, I have a picture of Red now. I just need to get someone to host it. It should be ready to share by tomorrow.
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As I've mentioned before, I have every intention of excercising caution with Red. But I also intend to assess him based on his own qualities and traits and NOT lump him in under the "all pit bulls are evil" umbrella.

 

[Jack Shappa]

As the Wise Man once said, "Duh."

Yeah, it should be a "duh", but judging from your posts I felt the need to state it. Not one person said Pit Bulls were "evil", only that the breed can be aggressive and very damaging in an attack. You need to understand under the right circumstance he can be very dangerous and treat the situation accordingly. You're going to "assess" him? What will that tell you? That he's loving and kind and licks everybody's face therefore he could never bite anyone? Be an animal lover, not a blind animal lover.

- Jack

 

[Ricky Hustle]

Jack, chill. You've said your piece, now YOU are being redundant.

 

[Rain]

Jack is making the mistake of confusing two entirely separate issues:

1. How much damage can a pit bull do if it turns on a person?

2. How likely is it that a pit bull will turn on a person.

The answers, of course, are:

1. Lots.

2. Statistically, not very. And certainly no more so than many other breeds with less negative reputations.

 

[Jack Briggs]

Rain, if this has already been covered I apologize. But what about your cats? Is the dog going to be indoors most of the time?

 

[Rain]

The cats are obviously a concern, as we are not certain how Red gets on with cats in general.

I can tell you that he is currently situated right next to the cat rooms and can see and smell them 24/7. He doesn't seem to react. On the other hand, if you put a dog in one of those rooms, he'd go loopy.

When the time comes, Red will be introduced to the cats while on leash and muzzled, with another friend standing by just in case.

As fond as I've become of Red, if he's not good with cats, it's obviously not going to work. If that happens, I'll still be there twice a week to walk him and hang out and to make sure he goes to a nice home.

You needn't worry a bit, Jack. I may have become fond of a dog, but my cats are every bit as important to me as they always have been.

 

[Jack Shappa]

Rain, I'm not confusing the issues at all. I never once said, nor did anyone else here say, a Pit Bull was more likely to attack than another dog. Just that people need to be careful of the attitude (not just with PBs but any dog) that "oh, old fluffy loves everybody, he'd never bite anyone". I'm only singly out Pit Bulls because the consequences are a bit more harsh than if a Pomeranian goes off on someone. There is no such thing as a dog that would never ever bite anyone.

- Jack

 

[Rain]

Update:

I went down to the shelter to walk Red today and the head Animal Control Officer and I talked a bit about him. She suggested that there was no time like the present to see how he would react in my home. I agreed, so we loaded him up into the van and headed over to my place.

He was on a leash and muzzled the entire time and, at first, the cats were in the bathroom. After he had a sniff around the place, we released the cats.

Never in my life have I seen an internal struggle so clearly in the body language of another living creature. It was very obvious that Red knew he shouldn't go at the cats; it even seemed like he was trying to ignore them by turning his head away from them. Alas, the hard-wiring eventually got the better of him and he lunged towards them a bit a couple of times. He was relaxed and fine during most of his visit, even lying on the floor and exposing his belly for a rub, but it's obvious that I could not completely trust him with the cats. He tried hard to be a good boy, but he's not able to completely control himself.

The good news is that I have clearance now to pretty much take Red wherever I want, including back to my apartment, during the day. I'm going to try a few more visits to my place to see if he and the cats get used to each other a little more, but even if that occurs I'm not sufficiently confident that he'd ever be able to control his baser urges without supervision.

To tell you the truth, I feel a little like crying right now. Though I'm not overly surprised by how things went, I tried to remain optimistic. I guess the bottom line is that it's quite unlikely Red is ever going to be my dog.

Nonetheless, I'm going to continue with our visits every two weeks and give him the love and affection he so deserves while I'm there. I'll be working as closely as I can with the shelter to find Red a suitable and loving home where he will be comfortable and where he will have the best chance of leading a happy life.

I've really grown to love this dog, but as the old saying goes, sometimes loving someone means having to let them go.

I'll still keep updating this thread with any new developments and will post the picture I have as soon as it gets hosted somewhere.

 

[Tony Whalen]

Sorry to hear that Rain. Can't say I'm overly surprised though... not knowing if Red had been exposed to cats before. Being a cat-person, I gotta admit I'm glad you aren't going to trust Red around your kitties. All the same, I'm sorry it didn't work the way you'd hoped.

 

[Robert_Gaither]

Don't feel bad Rain, at least you took your shot and found out that this might not be such a good arrangement (my dog hates cats also or either that or she likes the taste of them). I believe that for a large breed dog that must usually be raised around cats that can bully them and get that bluff in so the dog remembers not to mess with them later on (a friend of mine's pit gets along with cats great due to this). Pound-for-pound I think cats are tougher but unfortunately in this case the cat wouldn't be able to outrun or hide to protect themselves if you went to work and they were left to themselves. I think you're making the right decision.

 

[Steve Zatkoff]

Rain,

Don't give up just yet. This was only the first meeting between two animals that speak very different languages. We had two cats in the house (800 sqft condo) when we got our dog (Collie/Shepard mix). The first meeting of all involved did not go so well and finally after a couple of years, there is some harmony between the animals.

When Red was lunging toward the cats, was he agressive (trying to bite them thru the muzzle) or was it more like wanting to chase them? If he was aggressively trying too bite, I don't think it will work out.

When I refer to the animals speaking different languages, I am refering to body language such as when a dog is wagging it's tail, this is generally a playfull happy expression, where as when a cat is wagging it's tail, it may be annoyed.

Check out "How to Speak Dog" by Stanley Coren for further information on Canine langauge.

Best Regards,

Steve

 

[Malcolm R]

Sorry to hear it, Rain, but I'm glad to hear you're looking at all the angles before you make a decision. So many people would just adopt first without really thinking things through, then deal with the consequences later.

Red is very lucky to have you as his advocate, even if it looks like he can't have you as his permanent person.

 

[Mary M S]

Rain, Ditto, Steves comment. Having Red with your Cat buddies may not be an impossibility (yet).

The last time at home I oversaw introducing a cat and dog was 13 years ago when Nav was about 12 months, and the kitten (don’t ask he came with the name “Tailspin”was about 2 months. But I watched and helped with similar introductions with friends, family since then.

You did not have a bad first visit, (I’ve heard worse) and it is still possible to acclimate them to each other. These things occasionally even progress to 'buddies' even when the dog 'starts' by delibratly trying to 'kill' his future house mate. Admittedly these blendings are much easier with younger animals, but your situation is not impossible, and I have seen add-ins to the family work out even with older more grumpy startups.
Watch out for the wagging tail also, while an indicator of intreast and pleasure, some dogs pleasure is to hunt, and they will wag when starting out (its a game). However wagging is generally a good sign.

When our Kitten was introduced I spent two weeks not allowing the full sized dog and the bit of fluff together. The kitten was held (against his will) in my lap now and then , - over days - with the dog allowed to smell him (kitten hissing and spitting throughout the meeting). During this ‘lap’ moment I had one hand tented over the kitten, and one hand gently holding the dog’s mouth closed. Gradually all this subsided to the point where both were allowed freerange on the floor (still supervised). With the kitten maneuvering behind and under objects to navigate the area, looking like a Halloween poster child when the dog came towards him, then the dog proceeding to get excited and chasing him and me on top of it every second. I knew that even as we started the free ranging part, the dog could get overexcited when the kitten decided to scale a wall up and down, and chase and ‘stop’ with his teeth. Even after they were fine on the floor together for weeks, when I left the home one or the other was separated into an area whenever I had to leave. This probably went on for a month until I was confidante that the kitten could bounce across the room and on top of the dog with no negative repercussions.

With Red if you continue to bring him home for visits I would continue with the muzzle AT ALL TIMES.

A dog gets excited, and moves forward abruptly to see/smell the item of interest. The item of interest (not so interested in BEING seen) moves away rapidly. The dog moves faster, and the only hands the dog has to stop the item so that he/she can further inspect the item is their teeth. Usually the ‘item’ reacts very violently to this laying on, and suddenly a desire just to get close and “see” triggers into what dogs do naturally, hunt and kill smaller mammals.

This process of introduction is a long scary process that has to be handled expertly without a single ‘mistake’ on your part or the worst of situations could occur.

But how you describe Reds first reaction tells me (without seeing it for myself) that you still have a shot at the process. If you attempt to keep ‘introducing’ there will come a time when you know that things will be okay (or not). And you have to make VERY clear to Red, that this is YOUR RULE laid down absolutely, no ands/ifs/or buts. He will slowly overcome his more natural instincts (or not) and accept your ruling or exhibit (over weeks and months) that this is just too much to ask of him.

But as long as the muzzle is firmly in place your resident buddies are safe, for the attempt

Some dogs will never learn to control themselves, but Red displays what I read as the possibility of being able too.

One of our full-blooded Chows when I was growing up, was an animal hater. She was deadly to anything non-human and ambulatory. . Somehow we managed during this Chows lifetime (my poor parents) for 12 years to have another dog in residence (a toy poodle) which made for the kind of shenanigans that no-one should have to live with, as the Chow could NEVER-EVER be allowed in the same room with the poodle.

If Red does not settle down to all yours home residents, I would never recommend this lifestyle. Too much adrenaline work and organization and not very fair (or comfortable) to all involved.
Incredibly for a household with children banging in/out constantly we only had two incidents where the two gained access to each other. One, - I hate to admit - occurred when we 4 children were in the 8ish 12ish 14ish range and decided while both parents were out to have an emergency ‘Dog Drill”. The drill was too assign who would go where and do what, if the Chow ended up in the same space as the poodle. Of course the baby brother about 8, decided to test if we had all learned our roles, (without mentioning this fact to his older sisters) and we had a real emergency on our hands.
More excitement than I ever want to live through again!!!

This Chow displayed from her puppyhood, the fact that she was a danger to any animal within her eyesight. My very responsible father NEVER allowed us to walk her outside our yard, we went out for “walks” all the time but only my father could hold her leash.

Really not a recommended lifestyle, but in my family, a ‘pet’ is truly a family member, and once acquired is there for better or for worse, and you just deal with any issues which arise, you never NEVER start over.

You CANNOT take a chance with your Cat buddies safety and welfare, but what you described for a first meeting, (even if Red occasionally ‘darted’ at them) is very encouraging to me who has watched several (sometimes rough) introductions take place over the years. I believe you still have a possible opportunity to able to become a ‘blended’ family.

 

[Rain]

When Red was lunging toward the cats, was he agressive (trying to bite them thru the muzzle) or was it more like wanting to chase them?

There was no growling, as there sometimes is with other dogs, but it's really impossible to say.

Unless I un-muzzle him and let him go at them, I can't know for sure. Obviously I can't risk it.

Here is where his breed is a problem. If I was dealing with a small dog or even a collie or something, I could pretty much let him go after the cats, knowing the cats could adequately defend themselves if needed.

Being a pit bull, Red has a very high pain threshold and very strong jaws. Even one opportunity could result in him attaching himself to one of the cats. If that happened, the cat would be finished.

He'll be back in my home once a week from now on, so I'm just going to play it by ear and excercise the appropriate caution.

 

[Robert_Gaither]

Rain a note of caution, not all dogs growl, bark, or bite, most pitbulls I've seen usually show the same behavior, upright stance, slight quivering, ears perked, hair along the back standing up, and tail in a verticle position. If you see this sign, put up the dog or the object of it's attention.

 

[Joe Spratley]

I would put Red in a kennel in your home and let the cats loose. This way you could see his reaction and acclimate him to the cats and new surroundings. I would do this for about a week and then see how things are before making a decision.

 

[ChrisMatson]

I wish only the best for the dog, but I fear it may be like playing Russian Roulette with the cats.

Did you ever find out about the insurance issues. I know that here in the US, many insurance companies have policies stating that they will not cover "agggresive breeds" and that your coverage may be dropped if you own one of the dogs on the list.

It sounds silly, but you may be setting yourself up for some great liability. The hard part is that you won't know until it is too late.

 

[Dick]

Many dogs appear to be this way while in a shelter environment. My German Shepherd was, too. After two days in her new location, she needed to be out for exercise regularly, or drove me nuts tinkling the jingle bells at the door with her nose (dogs can be trained to do this to let you know they need to go out). She also became ultra protective of me and aggressive toward anyone else coming in, the result of her have been (the shlter suspected) kicked around a lot before I adopted her. Loved that dog like a child, but shelter dogs can come to you with issues the staff doesn't know about and which you don't discover until the animal feels secure enough in your home to let out some steam. But I will always advocate adopting rather than buying from any but the most reputable breeders. Pet store dogs can be bad news (disease, etc.) Anyway, Rain, your reasons for wanting this animal are the right ones, and Sally can just go **** herself. She has no right to make this decision for you. Your landlord does, though. He (or she) might not even be able to keep his insurance if you have a pit bull. Very prejudicial, but even Shepherds are becoming hard to insure for.

 

[Rain]

Sally has actually come around and is now on my side on this issue.

I'm a bit embarrassed to admit this, but I've become so desperate for some insight into this dog that I actually contacted a Pet Psychic. Yes, yes, I know, I know. But I figured I had nothing to lose if she was willing to donate her time. I'm just waiting on her report now.

Again, I'm practically certain that there are no "insurance issues" here. Please don't concern yourself further with this aspect.

 

[Joe Spratley]

If I were you I wouldn't trust this Sally for a minute. People don't just switch sides like this. More than likely she is playing you to fit her own twisted motives. Just don't want to see you get burned. There are a lot of not so nice people in this world and you will encounter a large percentage of them at work unfortunately. Trust me I learned this early on there are three types of people at work: the type that are actively out to get you and make you aware of it, the type that will play your friend but are knifing you in the back all the while smiling at you, and the type that aren't out to get anyone but if something goes wrong at work and they need to shift the blame and they have to decide between themselves and you they are going to pick themselves. Moral of the story:They will all screw you if your not careful.