It's Official: HD DVD and Blu-ray Can Limit High Resolution To HDMI Only (1 Viewer)

[PeterTHX]

Too many people are saying this.

Progress halts when you say something is "good enough". For years people said VHS was "good enough". LaserDisc, SVHS, ED-Beta all failed because VHS was "good enough".

I have HiDef. I love it. Standard DVD is NOT good enough! The difference starts to get really noticable on larger sets. Added color definition and dimensionality are apparent on even the smallest of monitors, though.

With the "good enough" attitude, we would never have OAR, Dolby Digital & DTS, etc. Blu-ray offers lossless sound, 3x resolution, true color space, and more. DVD technology is a decade old, folks.

 

[Dustin Elmore]

Yes they can. No one thinks they can't. The reason for the lowering of resolution is for copy protection purposes. If it weren't for this copy protection the studios wouldn't be giving us HD content at all. As I've said before, the studios can't define who they sell their products to, they have to sell them to the entire human race. Part of that race chooses to pirate content. This has to be dealt with. Its going to hurt six million television owners, but it can't simply be ignored and hoped that pirates will simply stop pirating.

 

[Jeff(R)]

IMHO attempts at organizing a boycott of HD-DVD and Blu-ray will work about as well as Prohibition did, particularly among the gadget-and-technology-freaks that populate this place who always want to have the latest and greatest. Good luck if you think it's worth it, but I am going to make the decision to invest in either technology myself based upon my entertainment needs (home theater and film watching is one of my major stress relievers) and my own evaluation of the benefits and risks in selecting a particular format.

 

[Paul.S]

Dustin, I'm confused by your response (granted, I'm operating at a loss in terms of not knowing exactly how HDMI is going to work). My point is that we will now likely need pre pros/receivers that are equipped with HDMI connections. The HDMI cable will go from the player to the pre pro/receiver for audio processing, and pass the (probably still encrypted) vid to the display device for decryption (and it's my understanding that you're not in the clear just because your display device has an HDMI connection; it must also conform to the latest version of HDCP).

Yes, hi def players will prolly still have optical and coax digital connections for aud, but those connections will only carry a lossy or down-rezed signal. I'd hardly think one would want to consider listening to compromised aud while watching a hi def picture as anything more than a stopgap/temporary situation. Ditto for what you said about porting the aud back to the receiver from the display--if that will even work. And again, the decrypted audio signal from the display device would either be hi rez via HDMI (therefore still requiring an HDMI-equipped receiver) -or- a down-rezed signal via some other cable.

-p

 

[Paul.S]

Bbtw--I posted links in this thread, but for ready reference here they are directly. I found both helpful.

"DVI and HDMI Connections and HDCP Explained"

"The Digital Link: Understanding the Digital Home Video Controversy on Commercial Content (Copy) Protection"

Like I said back in February, the passage of time has revealed some of his plain-spoken predictions off the mark ("Expect [blue laser DVD players] in 2003"). But writer Brian Weatherhead is remarkably clear and blunt about the implications of HDMI for those who have already bought hi def TVs. This is hardly a new issue/development--it's been brewing for a while.

-p

 

[Dustin Elmore]

I must be missing something. I wasn't aware that there was a loss in audio quality with optical or coaxial connections? Are they not still the norm on current players with DVI. I thought the benefit of HDMI (in comparison to DVI and audio issues, not picture quality) was merely that it coupled the audio with the video. Does HDMI also deliver Superior sound? Personally I've always preferred not to port my video signal threw my Audio receiver. Nor my audio from my television for that matter. But I don't have high definition set yet, so there is not a digital output from my monitor. would a digital signal sent from the player to the Monitor, and then routed digitally to a receiver suffer any loss of quality? If it does, then that is a downside I would have to address. I guess I would be buying a new receiver. However, I strongly believe there will be a standalone audio output. I don't know what it will be though, nor what you want it to be? If you don't want an optical or coaxial Audio option because of its audio degradation, nor HDMI, what format would you prefer for the audio signal?

EDIT: Just read your link, wasn't aware that DVI was being left behind, but not a big deal. It said the audio signal had room for only 7 channels of sound, looks like when 20 channel sound comes around, we'll have to upgrade again!

EDIT 2: I just remembered that the players will have downresed component support, so obviously they must have standard audio connections as well.

 

[STARKILLER1138]

Boycott? I'm in!

 

[Marko Berg]

The two people in this thread who resent cautious approach to HD video formats are of course free to blow as much money as they can afford on upgrading the hardware and software.

But why make an issue out of it when other members would rather see at the introduction of HD video just one format that was done right from the start?

I don't have an HD capable display and will need to purchase one if I'm going to enjoy HD video. However, it doesn't end there. The possibility of having to buy two separate HD players is not enticing.

I'm not interested in video games and would not purchase a gaming machine, however cheap, regardless of what playback options one offered -- I want the convenience of a dedicated home theater/Hi-Fi machine. The first piece of hardware to allow playback of HD content in my case would probably be a computer drive, but I'm not interested in pursuing the HTPC approach either for the same reasons as I would not buy a gaming machine.

In addition, I might need to upgrade my receiver too, depending on the introduction of new lossless sound formats and how many HDMI inputs the display device had, and how many playback devices with HDMI outputs I had. And I'm sure the HD software on either HD DVD or Blu-ray is not going to be as cheap as standard DVD from the start.

In my case, I just don't see this HD revolution happening soon. And considering I am quite happy with the quality of standard DVD, there's not much revolution there for me since I'm reluctant to upgrade my software collection in the first place. Although I may eventually upgrade all my hardware to be HD DVD or Blu-ray compliant and eventually buy new titles on an HD format (but not until I have playback capability), it will probably take ten years.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Appreciate your show of support thus far.

There's one particular post I have to make
light of....


That's fine. We don't expect everyone will
join the cause.

Realize however, this isn't just about inferior
product. By initiating a boycott of purchasing
either product we further push both companies to
realizing that there must be one unified format.

Does anyone here see any sanity in having to
purchase two HD players in order to be able to
take advantage of releases from all the studios?

Isn't everyone getting a little tired of the
greed out of these companies to dominate a
format, giving no consideration towards the
consumer?

Are there really many of you out there willing
to invest in two separate formats rather than
fighting with your wallets to push these companies
to rethink their strategies?

Anyone who thinks that we can't make a difference
this time out is WRONG. You guys are the early
adopters. All of us are die-hard consumers. We
can make or break these new formats, and you are
kidding yourselves if you don't think that you
can make a difference.

As far as exactly what our cause will
be remains to be determined. This is why we
are asking your opinions. By the end of the
week I am hoping we can have some sort of mission
statement (perhaps written by Bill Hunt) drawn up
and that we will have several websites aboard with
us. At that point we'll contact our media resources
to cover what we are doing here.

 

[Carlos Garcia]

I already have my 2 HDTV sets, and they weren't cheap. The fact that they only came with component inputs, and no HDMI doesn't stop them from being HDTV sets. Not everyone can throw away thousands of dollars on a new set everyday just because something new is introduced. I'm sure the majority are in the same boat as I am. If the life of a good TV is about 10-15 yrs, then eventually I'll upgrade to one with an HDMI input, or whatever input is standard 10-15 yrs from now. Of course by then we can expect a totally new format other than HD-DVD/Blu-ray to dominate the market...The wheels of technology are always turning. So I'll miss HD-DVD/Blu-ray...no big deal, I've still got cable and can watch High definition that way. It's a shame the industry chose to forget those of us with component only inputs. I'd say they'll be losing alot of customers in the longrun.

 

[Sebastien S]

The PS3 is slated to have a launch price tag of $399 U.S. In Canada, after the exchange rate and taxes are applied... That comes up to about $700! And let's not forget, that does NOT include any games or movies, it's just the machine.

These new machines have become more and more expensive over the years but this is ridiculous!!! Not everyone cares about games and for that price, you might as well just buy a standard (better quality player than the PS3) Blue Ray player.

Frankly I don't see all that many people buying a PS3 after "launch day" and I don't see the PS3 affecting the HD wars that heavily. I bought my PS2 on it's launch day in October of 2000 and it was my first DVD player but at this price, I'll be waiting a few years for my PS3 and I suspect that I won't be the only one.

As for this "boycott", how many are we here... Can we honestly affect and force both companies to create a unified format??? How many people that buy DVD's don't come here or on any other message boards... I suspect the number is far greater.

But by all means, let's create a poll and vote on this matter. Simple question:

"Do we or do we not boycott both HD formats (HD-DVD & Blue Ray)?"

 

[Carlos Garcia]

Yes there is...The studios don't want anyone copying/pirating their high quality image, since HDMI is basically a completely copy-protected format, while component DVD is not. This is just another example of these companies sticking it to the millions of customers in order to protect themselves from thousands of pirates. Macrovision anyone? Or did we forget those old annoying dark blinking picture our old VHS movies would give us thanks to that wonderful technology?

 

[Jeff D Han]

I couldn't agree with you more, Marko.

Besides not having a unified new format to upgrade
into hi-def, somebody bought up an excellent point-
how will these new formats perform with the software
being kicked around a little bit? Will certain titles
be flaky and glitchy in certain players? How durable
will the software be? Will the discs "rot", or will
they be manufactured to withstand more abuse and
negligence from consumers? There are a lot of unknowns
about these new formats, and some of us are left out
in the cold over the HDMI issue with one or both new
formats, and a lot of us have invested a lot of time
and money in our libraries and home theaters. I've said
this in other threads, and this has been said adnauseum,
HD-DVD and Blu-Ray will be "niche" for years.

 

[Carlos Garcia]

Anyone who's seen an HD image knows high definition is a very flawed format, it's not perfect. Am I alone here? I've seen HDTV 1080i broadcasts (over the air as well as through cable) where the picture breaks up digitally, will stall, will look like a zillion tiny blocks are on the screen (especially in sporting events like car races where everything is moving so fast), and many more tiny distractions that make HDTV a very imperfect format. Let's be real, yes at its best high definition can look beautiful, but since it's a digital format, it is far from perfect, so let's not glorify HD-DVD/Blu-ray as if it'll be the end all of video yet to come. If we boycott it, something better will eventually come along.

 

[Carlos Garcia]

Very true, unfortunately, as we've all seen in the past...For whatever invention the industry creates to protect themselves from piracy, the hackers always devise a way of defeating it. In other words, those who want to pirate movies will eventually continue to do so, yet the paying consumer will continue to have to pay the price at their expense.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Absolutely!

Fact: The original DIVX format was killed
mostly because of Internet forums like this.
Through word-of-mouth readers were urged not
to buy into the format. They didn't!

Fact: The DVD format grew and prospered
through Internet discussion forums. The early
adopters were mostly all individuals who were
sold on praises they read across the Internet.

Fact: After releasing Willy Wonka and the
Chocolate Factory in Full Frame only, an
uproar across Internet discusion forums forced
Warner Brothers to finally release a widescreen
version.

The plan here is to unite several major websites
and discussion forums together to alert consumers
of the pending disaster these two competing formats
are going to cause.

We are VERY confident we can bring many websites
into this fold and through additional media coverage
we can make enough noise that people are going to
take notice.

The reason I am very confident that THIS boycott
can make a difference is because it's obvious that
nobody is interested in what either of these two
companies have to offer as long at they stand
on separate turf.

 

[DustinPizarro]

Boycott??

Where do I sign up!!!

 

[ZackR]

Ron, Bill Hunt, etc...

Make it happen. I think we (the collective internet enthusiasts) CAN make a difference. After all, without forums like this one and the attention they can garner, one of my favorite films (Will Wonka) would not be sitting on my shelf today. Let's make our voices heard!!

 

[David Galindo]

Yeah, where do we sign?

 

[Thomas Newton]

Part of that race chooses to ignore the fact that copyright laws are supposed to be there for the benefit of the public -- not for the benefit of the studios. They pretend that in any real or imagined conflict, the public's role is to be a boogeyman and a whipping-boy.

They pretend that they're entitled to perfect, before-the-fact enforcement of their wishes via electronic policemen installed in other people's gear. Never mind that we don't have police follow everyone 24/7 to prevent crimes such as murder.

They pretend that if they blow off people's big investments in HD-ready sets, that's OK.

Sorry, but I don't buy the spin. Especially not coming from the same industry that compared VCRs to the Boston Strangler.