It's Official: HD DVD and Blu-ray Can Limit High Resolution To HDMI Only (1 Viewer)

[Steve...O]

My thoughts exactly Carlos. I support what Ron is proposing.

Current DVD is more than fine for me and will be for some time given that the great majority of my purchases are for pre 1960 films that probably won't look significantly better in HD.

For me to take the leap to the next level would require one unified format that supports multiple interfaces, including component.

The success of the next generation of DVD doesn't rest with the early adopters, it rests with the millions of people who have DVDs in their homes wondering what the heck a HDMI or DVI is. All of this technology can do wonderful things, but it will be for naught if the two sides can't get together and put their egos aside.

Steve

 

[RobertR]

Based on what, exactly? I've watched a great deal of 1080i via analog connections (RGBHV), and anyone who says such a connection "is not HD" has obviously never seen it.

 

[PeterTHX]

Well, how about buying a TV that has a HDMI input?
If a TV doesn't have one these days, it's either a few years old, cheap, or both.

 

[Robert Crawford]

So everybody with a television that's a few years old should buy another one just so they can watch this new software format? If so then this new software format is going to fail or become nothing more than a niche market for the next 10 years or so.





Crawdaddy

 

[Kyle_D]

Sorry, some of us here don't have the money to upgrade every few years. Cheap is a relative term.

 

[Dustin Elmore]

To be frank, YES. At least everyone who has a HIGH DEFINITION television thats a few years old, which is a VERY SMALL percentage of consumers. That won't come close to making it a niche market. Thats the risk you take when you're the first on the block to get the latest technology. The bottom line is that these formats won't support component connections. If they fail, then it will be another few years before a new HD format is released. More likely than not, that new format will NOT SUPPORT component connections. And no one will be complaining either because by then it will be even more of a moot point than it is now. When all is said and done there is nothing to gain in the fight for component support. Even if the formats lose, you won't win.

 

[CraigF]

So it's a gaming format? That seems to be your point. Mine is: what can it do for me as an HT user? I couldn't care less if they sold 10M game machines. And they probably will, unless the parents get fed up... Game machines have meant nothing to me so far as an HT user. Maybe that'll change... I laugh even to consider it. No thanks! It's a different market, the MP3 market...you know, quantity over quality. Not for me! I just don't care if crap comes in a high quality format.

And as I alluded to previously, I am part of a potentially very large market, those with $$ who are willing to spend it for value, as oppsed to those who would rather get their S/W for free (largely the gaming and MP3 demographic, sorry to say, but demonstrably true). It doesn't matter what format for anything some new game machine has, the demographic they're after will buy it if they're in that "camp", they have to, it's in their life-style. These are NOT the people who typically have an HT setup, they watch their DVDs on a PC. Completely different market, little to no crossover, to the benefit of manufacturers who dearly want to keep it that way. So don't think putting a Blu-ray drive in a PS3 is tied to HT. It is merely one way to get some return from sunk investments, and can be useful to Sony in the only way they care about. Whatever format rises to the top in movie sales, Sony will support that one, absolutely guaranteed, they truly don't care how they get your money. And why should they?

[I always think back to some press releases I read on the same day maybe 18 months ago from Sony in Canada, from people who probably work a few floors apart. One was from the president of their music division and was decrying the criminality and loss of revenue from MP3 music piracy, the other was promoting their MP3 hardware that you load up by direct connection to the internet, before any legal sources existed. They really don't care about anything, except whatever increases revenue.]

 

[Dustin Elmore]

CraigF, I'm assuming you're referring to my ps3 post. If you mean to say that blu-ray is a gaming format, then yes it is. So is DVD. Its a versatile disc, not a video disc. Blu-ray is also a storage format, that will most likely take over the norm from CDs. All of them are created with multiple purposes in mind. My point about the PS3's use of the technology was that Blu-ray is a driving force behind it. Not just something extra like the PS2's DVD player. Gamers demand top quality from there equipment just as we demand from ours. Because the PS3 will deliver high quality blu-ray games, it will easily be able to deliver high quality blu-ray films, which is an easier content to process.



The same can be said about us, but you don't seem to feel that way, do you? I'm sure there are a few people on the board who have kids that will be getting a PS3 come next spring. Now, whether they were going to adopt blu-ray or not, they have a player in their home. And when they go to buy... say the new King Kong on DVD next year, and its sitting next to the HD version in best buy, and they know they could see it in glorious High definition with that PS3 little johnny has hooked up to their big TV, what do you think they'll purchase.

 

[Glenn Overholt]

At $150, just about everybody will get one. It would be a lot more tempting for us to get both at that price. $2000 is a no-no.

The studios want us to buy into the new formats. Unlike the VHS to DVD players change, the SD to HD change is really only a few parts. It isn't a whole new technology. You're talking what? The laser, decoder and the HDMI/DVD sockets on the back?

The sets will (in theory) sell like hotcakes. Anybody with a new TV won't have any problem hooking it up. If you have an older set, you'd be looking into getting a new one. Watch the prices of new TV's later this year. It might be a major selling point. I think a law just passed here stating that new TV's had to be HD ready, all the way down to 19" now. Not a major budget strain, especially with the holidays coming up.

Ignoring the format war for a minute, getting a new player at $150 with a new 19" TV is going to work for a lot of people. I am sure that the advertisers are busy with this right now.

Dustin helps to nail my $150. theory too. The Gaming machines can't/won't sell at $1000. I don't have a reason to do this, but I could tear apart a PS3 and put it into a a regular DVD player. How can anyone justify another $700 in parts?

It's just like selling Star Trek season sets for $50. (MSRP) they would sell so fast they won't be able to keep them on the shelves.

But 2 formats suck the big one! If we are going to start a boycott that WILL work, we're going to have to hit up the retail stores. For example, if we hit up every Best Buy and let their managers know that we are going to stop buying, I think they'd let corporate know. Eh?

Glenn

 

[Patrick McCart]

Personally, I think it's great that they'll push digital output... but it's not a good idea to reduce the quality of the analog outputs.

Between the format war and limiting possibilities with outputs, I don't see why I should switch to HD in the near future. I'm perfectly happy with standard DVD, given that most releases from Fox, Criterion, Warner, Universal, and Paramount are high enough quality for now. And at least we don't have to deal with this bass-ackwards stuff.

 

[Thomas Newton]

To those suggesting that early HDTV adopters should buy new TVs with DRMed HDMI inputs, just to satisfy the studios' paranoia and desire to control people in their own homes, get real. It was just this sort of attitude that helped to lead to the doom of Circuit City's DIVX and to the $100 million bath Circuit City reported upon shutting it down.

Circuit City believed that those who bought DVD players would turn around and toss out the "obsolete" DVD players for the "surprise! surprise!" DIVX ones. They guessed wrong. And the early DVD players didn't represent anything like the investment that many people made in much-ballyhooed, component-input-equipped, HD-ready sets.

 

[Seth--L]

That's going to confuse so many consumers. I know a number of people who connect hardware to their HDTV using a composite cable. It's all they understand.

 

[Dustin Elmore]

HDMI would be an issue, and might cause the format to fail, if it were only a matter of the copy protection. But its a better connection. Its progress. To compare that with the travesty that was DIVX is absurd. I've been looking for some figures on HD television sales, but haven't been able to find any. If anyone can come up with an approximate total sales figure for HD sets, broken down yearly, we could estimate just how many people this will really be a problem for.

 

[ChrisMatson]

From the Videogame Hardware thread:
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...36#post2684836

 

[Jeff(R)]

This is the best information I can find so far:

http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/11749

"Over the past three years, the sales of HDTV sets have increased by five-fold, at least when it comes to LCD and plasma sets and by the end of 2004, around 10% of US households had at least one HDTV set."

More:

See page 2 of this .pdf:

http://www.ncta.com/images/HDTVkit-Researchfinal2.pdf

Actual & Projected Sales of DTV Sets 2002-2006

2002: 2.5 million
2003: 4.0 million
2004: 5.4 million
2005: 8.0 million
2006: 10.5 million

(However, this document is from 2003)

 

[Paul.S]

But since HDMI carries aud, display devices aren't the only issue, yes? Receivers are an issue as well, since the HDMI cable needs to go their first for audio processing . . .

-p

 

[Brent M]

This is gonna get ugly before it's all said and done. I've said for several months now that if there was a format war I wasn't buying into HD-DVD or Blu-Ray and I still stand by that statement. I can live with standard DVD for at least 2 or 3 more years(if not more) and hopefully by then either one format will win out or a universal player will be available. There's NOT A CHANCE that I'll buy both a Blu-Ray and an HD-DVD player just so I can get all my favorite movies from the various greedy studios in HD. Personally, I hope this war plays out like SACD/DVD-A.........in other words, both sides fail miserably.

 

[Nick Graham]

Granted, my HD set was only recently purchased (and has DVI), but I have a feeling the many here who spent 5-6 figures on HD displays before the advent of DVI/HDMI will likely suggest a slightly unconventional port for you to plug your HDMI cable into.

I'm all for the boycott Ron suggested...I agree Blu-Ray is the superior format, but to suggest that Sony's stubborness is strictly due to quality concerns as opposed to who will get the $$ off of every disc sold is to ignore the very nature of Sony (or most of the other manufacturers)itself.

 

[Thomas Newton]

Whether or not it's a better connection for someone with both digital and analog inputs, it's clearly not a better connection for an early adopter.

Digital outputs can co-exist with full-resolution component outputs. So there is no reason that the care and feeding of your HDMI TV (what you call "progress") should lead to artificial lowering of the resolution of the signals made available to component-video-based sets.

 

[PeterTHX]

EXCEPT for the fact that it isn't Sony that's in the wrong here. The tables are turned and it's Toshiba that's being the stubborn company.
Blu-ray has wide industry support and Toshiba is pretty much the ONLY major consumer electronics maker that supports HD-DVD. Hitachi, Panasonic, JVC, Samsung, all the major PC makers...they ALL support Blu-ray!

I implore you folks: there won't be a long format war if we support Blu-ray and Blu-ray only. This isn't Beta vs VHS, or SACD vs DVD-Audio! It's Toshiba vs the rest of the industry. If we boycott HD-DVD and buy Blu-ray the rest of the studios will fall in line. Why doesn't anyone else get this:

IT'S NOT JUST SONY! DON'T BLAME SONY ON THIS ONE!

I don't want to be stuck with SD DVD indefinately.
It's Toshiba that's being greedy. Blu-ray equipment has existed for awhile now in Japan, HD-DVD has NEVER been available as a consumer product. EVER. It's a last ditch patent grab by the Toshiba group, who had the nerve to even try to bring out a RED laser product at the suggestion of Warner! If that isn't being greedy and non-innovative I don't know what is then.