It's Official: HD DVD and Blu-ray Can Limit High Resolution To HDMI Only

Discussion in 'Blu-ray and UHD' started by Pete Lee, Jul 9, 2005.

  1. CraigF

    CraigF Cinematographer

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    This is totally false. Among the other major names supporting HD-DVD are NEC, Sanyo, Paramount, Warner, Universal, New Line, MicroSoft...you've likely heard of some of these.[​IMG]
     
  2. PeterTHX

    PeterTHX Cinematographer

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    Sorry if I came on a little too strong, but even if we were presented with a unified format, attitudes like "DVD looks good enough" will kill any momentum for an HD format.

    Look at "The Matrix". The new 2004 transfer blows the 1999 one out of the water, and that was considered state-of-the-art at the time.

    1080p HD offers over 3 times the resolution potential over SD-DVD (which is natively 480i BTW, it's NOT a native progressive signal).

    I want that, and people in this forum should help strive for that.
     
  3. Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
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    Only if it makes economical sense to do so. If acceptance of the HD format doesn't take off then the entertainment industry along with hardware providers only have themselves to blame for that unfortunate situation.








    Crawdaddy
     
  4. Michael Elliott

    Michael Elliott Lead Actor

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    Some people enjoy the films more than any of the techinical things. There are thousands of films that were never released on VHS, LD, DVD and they certainly won't be on HD-DVD so I guess we shouldn't pay them any attention?

    I personally don't see how anyone would want HD this soon after DVD, which yes, is good enough. How many times are you going to upgrade your collections and everything else? Are people going to jump everytime some company wants to make some more money? I find it funny that some people put down SD-DVD because HD is coming but do you really think HD will be the end all format? Of course not. After you throw out your DVD collections and upgrade to HD, in 2015 you'll be throwing them out to upgrade to HDHD-DVD or some other format.

    Technology will continue to grow so HD isn't going to put a stop to anything. Companies will continue to throw this stuff out but you've still got to ask yourself when something is simply good enough. Perhaps I'm a bit dumb but I personally don't see anything wrong with this format. As a film lover each month is getting better and better when it comes to releases.

    Is HD going to remove all the scratches and cuts from FREAKS, THE BIRTH OF A NATION or SUNRISE? Is HD going to help public domain titles that will never get an official release?

    As far as the boycott goes, I'm certainly in and will remain in. I'm young enough to throw money around but I'll sit out HD and wait for the next format. I'm sure 20 years from now we'll have 20.1 sound systems so there's something else to look forward to.
     
  5. PeterTHX

    PeterTHX Cinematographer

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    What's the last NEC DVD player you bought? With Apple, Sony, Dell and HP supporting Blu-ray, how many PCs with HD-DVD will be available?
    Sanyo? Not exactly an industry mover.

    Paramount and Universal is not exclusive HD. They ALSO support UMD discs. So no big deal.
    Warner & New Line are (for now) but all these folks don't make the hardware. Microsoft VC-1 codec is Blu-ray spec as well.

    Columbia-Tri star, & Disney will be Blu-ray exclusive. With their aquisition of MGM Sony now controls the largest film catalog in the world. Fox will more than likely support both formats.

    The support is overwhelming Blu-ray. HD-DVD isn't even close.
     
  6. Matt Goddard

    Matt Goddard Stunt Coordinator

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    When I bought my Toshiba HDTV in August 2001 I knew there would probably be a day when I would need to upgrade solely because the set only had component inputs. I'm really disappointed, however, that a business - and not technical - decision by Toshiba and their allies is bringing that day nearer. And yes, it's enough to make me want to boycott HD-DVD.

    My one concern with this whole boycott everybody idea is that I'm not sure Blu-Ray is in the wrong. I'm sure HD-DVD thinks they're better, but as a consumer I've already made the theoretcial decision that I'm a believer in Blu-Ray. So, am I supposed to be mad at Blu-Ray because they refuse to waterdown their product as part of a compromise with the technologically inferior HD-DVD folks? Why do I punish Sony for wanting to bring me a superior product?

    So far, I'm glad Sony is sticking by their guns. If Blu-Ray and HD-DVD meet in the middle, I'm getting a lesser product. So I'm not ready to boycott Blu-Ray. That may change if it won't work with my current component inputs.

    I don't want to get into any drawn out arguments about technical specifications and the like. I've made the early decision to eventually go with Blu-Ray and I'm going to give them a chance to at least develop a product. HD-DVD appears to be blowing their chance.
     
  7. Bryan X

    Bryan X Producer

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    Count me in, Ron.
     
  8. Sean Laughter

    Sean Laughter Screenwriter

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    These are my thoughts as well. Any kind of "unification" talks for the sake of not having any format war would, at this point, ultimately lead to the HD-DVD group watering down the Blu-Ray spec in order to get in on the patent and licensing action.
     
  9. David Galindo

    David Galindo Screenwriter

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    Oh man, a boycott would be an absolutely fantastic idea.
     
  10. Dustin Elmore

    Dustin Elmore Stunt Coordinator

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    Currently I own a SD TV with "the squeeze" and progressive capabilities. I get every bit of juice you can squeeze out of a DVD's picture with it. More than a year ago I seriously looked into getting an HD set, and continue to look every few months or so. There weren't any large screen sets capable of 1080(p, preferred)resolutions that were reasonably affordable. I won't purchase a "mild" definition set. HD television content does not interest me as I use my television for films 90% of the time. I'm sure in the next year I'll purchase a set capable of these specifications. Then, taking into consideration where the formats stand, I'll support them (blu-ray, hopefully).

    Those who were early adopters of HD sets were not promised HD-DVD compatibility. You've had these sets for some time now, and I would assume you've enjoyed theme, right? D-VHS has been out for awhile now, and many haven't supported it, right? You wanted a disc format. The manufacturers have given you one, and they want HDMI for perfectly justifiable reasons. They're selling these discs to the human race, not the Home Theater Forum. I believe the number of households in the country that currently own HD sets with ONLY component inputs is around 2-3%, certainly not enough to warrant revising the formats. I know many of you are upset about it, but thats just the way it is. This has always been the cost of progress, and early adopters have always been aware, at least they should be, that there is risk involved when you're the first in line. And while component support may be a negative point, I'm pleasantly surprised to learn of the Double sided proposal. That alone makes up for the lack of component support in my opinion.
     
  11. TravisR

    TravisR Studio Mogul

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    The only problem is that the overwhelmingly majority of people who are going to get any HD format moving are the people at HTF. Without us, it will never catch on to the average consumer (which is the biggest and most important segment of their 'audience') and it'll be dead in the water.
     
  12. ZackR

    ZackR Supporting Actor

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    I am extremely disappointed to hear this news. Shoot, I was already annoyed at the competing formats aspect of this situation. Now with this news, I am officially sitting this out for a while. Ron, count me in on the boycott...in fact, I doubt I will jump in at all until there is only one surviving format anyway, hopefully Blue-Ray...

    I am all for this boycott idea though!! [​IMG]
     
  13. Dustin Elmore

    Dustin Elmore Stunt Coordinator

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    That, my friend, is ridiculous. We aren't going to make or break this. If everyone here were to fully support HD disc content then what we would have... is laser-disc. Home theater enthusiasts supported it, it was around for many years, but it was never a standard in suburban homes. DVD is, and it doesn't have anything to do with you or me. HD will be the standard, maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but someday. The format war will likely cause a lot of problems, and if these format fail it will be because they shot themselves in the foot, not because of our smoking guns. But in the end, whether you support HD disc content now, or much later with some new format, you aren't going to be doing it with component inputs. You can have HD films this November or you can have it in 2010?, but it WONT BE WITH COMPONENT INPUTS. It isn't worth fighting over, there are better reasons to boycott HD-DVD (and support blu-ray, wooo!)
     
  14. TravisR

    TravisR Studio Mogul

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    Yes and then that HD format would be what eventually becomes the norm for everyone.

    And I don't know if what I said is as ridiculous as much as it just doesn't agree with your point of view on the topic.
     
  15. CraigF

    CraigF Cinematographer

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    PeterTHX: I really don't care who "wins" since it doesn't involve me, I was just pointing out some names. I'm in the boycott!

    Do not go by the names you see on your front panels, you never know what's inside (i.e. Denons and Sony's having Panasonic guts, a small example that I have here). And not that I'd ever buy a Toshiba DVDP (HD-DVD), nor Sony nor Pioneer ones (Blu-ray) anyway...gotta do the job well, not just have a "name".

    There is much more than just the hardware manufacturers too...there is fighting over the driving software and "standards". A real big deal. The real fighting is going on because there are tons of patents owned by people on both sides, and there is big $$$ in licensing the core intellectual properties. And then there's the manufacturing of discs...Blu-ray requires totally new facilities, HD-DVD doesn't (just an "upgrade")...why HD-DVD will be first out of the gate with S/W. Sometimes being first means you automatically win, sometimes not i.e. Beta/VHS, and the more open tech wins..

    I think the fact that Sony PlayStations will have Blu-ray has no more significance than some game machines playing UMD discs, not the same market, those people are used to buying *very* limited products with little/no portability, always been that way.

    Like I said, if these guys had ANY concern for the customers, they'd have sorted this out by now. So, being a customer, I have no concern for them. They're willing to shoot it out in shelf space, and they'll be as successful in that as they were with hi-res music. Especially if they charge 2-3 times the price that something that's "good enough" (DVD) costs...and they will, based on what they've done in the past, regardless of what they say now.

    A year or two from now I can walk into Wal-Mart and I'll be easily able to tell who's "winning", if anybody.
     
  16. Jeff Ulmer

    Jeff Ulmer Producer

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    As a very early adopter of DVD (bought a player the day they were available), and an owner of a Toshiba HD-ready set, I have no interest in jumping in early on any HD format, until there is a single standard that will work on my set.

    While it may be a huge success, even DVD isn't without its detractors. Just last night I was visiting neighbors with a standard 4:3 set who were very disappointed by the fact that all of their DVDs were breaking up due to poor handling and storage, where their ten + year old VHS tapes still played flawlessly. There wasn't much to argue about.

    Before I invest in yet another format, there need to be some serious problems with the DVD format addressed: first, the durability of the signal, especially in an average household where discs will not be treated with kid gloves. Second is rot, to which many of my collection are falling prey. Third is compatability with the equipment I have.

    There needs to be ONE format, and one format only, and it needs to be durable (unlike DVD), and backwards compatable (unless we want to launch a class action suit against all the manufacturers who promised HD compatability on our multithousand dollar sets).

    I'm boycotting already, and it would be great to send a clear and unified message to the manufacturers that their squabbling is going to cost their companies profits. It also wouldn't hurt to invoke a bit of fear in the shareholders of those companies over the potential disater they are facing.

    No HD until it is done right!
     
  17. PeterTHX

    PeterTHX Cinematographer

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    This is a little naive. I know many people who's first DVD player was a Playstation 2. The PS3 being Blu-ray is quite important.

    It's also important if all the major electronics companies have Blu-ray drives on the market. In this case the entire war is over the "guts".

    The fact that Blu-ray needs new facities is misleading. It's already been demonstrated that conversions can be done easily, and more importantly, cheaply. HD-DVDs advantage is minimal and contributes to its inferiority to BR. Another person mentioned durability, HD-DVD is potentially even MORE fragile than DVD, where Blu-ray's single bonded disc with TDK "armor" tech makes it quite durable, moreso than standard DVD.

    Blu-ray IS HiDef DVD done right!
     
  18. Ronald Epstein

    Ronald Epstein Administrator
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    Attention

    I think something big is going to start right here.

    I just got off the phone with Bill Hunt of
    The Digital Bits

    The HD format wars have been discussed in great
    detail on The Digital Bits website. Bill Hunt has
    been a huge advocate in trying to unify both formats.

    I told Bill what was happening here on Home Theater
    Forum and he became very excited about what he heard.

    The plan is simple....

    We are going to seek to bring as many DVD and
    Home Theater websites together as we can to promote
    a message to consumers that NOBODY should be buying
    into the new HD formats until they are unified.

    We will draw up a statement that gives an overview
    of exactly how this format war will negatively
    impact the industry and the consumer. We will then
    tout the fact that the only way to make a positive
    change towards a unified format is for consumers not
    to support either HD-DVD or Blu-ray Disc formats.

    Once we begin to bring more websites on board we
    will begin spreading the word. We plan to alert our
    media contacts about our cause, and it is our hope
    that in the next coming months "the voice of the
    Internet" will be making headlines.

    It's very important that our members support this
    cause. We are confident that by abstaining to
    support either format, both camps will be forced
    to rethink their strategy. We are the early adopters
    that the manufacturers and studios are banking on
    to fuel sales and word-of-mouth. We plan to disappoint.

    The DVD format grew and prospered out of forums
    and websites like HTF and THE DIGITAL BITS. We
    will not allow the same to happen to the upcoming
    dueling HD formats.

    More news to come....
     
  19. Dustin Elmore

    Dustin Elmore Stunt Coordinator

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    I thought the amount of power you think the relatively small amount of home theater enthusiasts in the world have was "ridiculous", but I didn't mean to infer any animosity. My point about laser disc was that it WAS supported by us, and it never became the norm. For a format to become a standard in homes, it has to surpass us and be the format that everyone in the world turns to for their viewing options. We don't have the power to make that happen. Likewise, if everyone does support it, the manufacturers aren't going to care one bit if we don't. I think the HDMI decision may seem unfair to some, but I don't think its unwarranted. I don't see any kind of "battle" over it that would be winnable to us in any way. As far as the war for component support goes,we're the crew of the Galactica and the Cylons won. Now lets watch their high quality movies.
     
  20. Carlos Garcia

    Carlos Garcia Screenwriter

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    Judging by all the anger in this thread, it seems they've really shot themselves in the foot this time. It's pretty obvious to me that if the majority of the posters on this thread are all for a boycott, can you imagine how the average TV viewing public will feel? Especially those who bought HDTVs with component only inputs? Remember, the majority of the public are not video enthusiasts, they only want to see a decent picture and be able to watch what they already own...and it's THOSE people who will determine whether the HD-DVD/Blu-ray format lives or dies. It's starting to feel more and more like HD-DVD/Blu-ray will become the laserdisc of the 21st century. When someone comes out with an HD-DVD player that will support component inputs, please wake me up...What's that, it'll never happen? Exactly.
     

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