Is the chroma bug real?

Discussion in 'Playback Devices' started by BobH, Apr 1, 2003.

  1. BobH

    BobH Stunt Coordinator

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    The Home Theater and High Fidelity website (www.hometheaterhifi.com) has made a point of the DVD players that have a "chroma bug."

    Their website seems to be very thorough but there have been many other reviews of the "infected" players that didn't find this bug. There have been several posts here and on other sites that say they don't see the bug on the DVDs.

    I have emailed questions to this site with no reply. Anybody know if they and the chroma bug are real? It sure makes a difference in which DVD player I'm about to buy!
     
  2. Edward J M

    Edward J M Cinematographer

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    Yes the website is for real. Yes the Chroma Bug is for real, and has been discussed here extensively.

    Some players have it worse than others. By far the worst example I have ever seen of the CB is the Denon 2800 / 2800 MKII line. Supposedly (fingers crossed) the Denon 2900 will not have it.

    Regards,

    Ed
     
  3. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Bob, the chroma bug is real. As Edward said, some players show it worse than others (some don't show it at all). In addition, the display you use can influence one's ability to detect the chroma bug.
     
  4. Jason Pugh

    Jason Pugh Agent

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    It not only is real but it is annoying as ever. I bought a Panasonic as my original DVD player (Non Prog Scan) and it didn't have the bug. It wasn't until I put a DVD in my Xbox that I saw the horrible Chroma bug. After sending out emails to a dozen home theater gurus I found out about the chroma bug and after I looked for what they said I found that there was NO doubt that it was for real and plagued my Xbox. It was very obvious on my 58" Elite. [​IMG]

    Jason
     
  5. BobH

    BobH Stunt Coordinator

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    OK, I have to assume that those that do not see the chroma bug, particularly on the Pioneer DV-47ai and DV-45, are fortunate to have a monitor that matches the player some how.

    I know this has been discussed here extensively but, as with most websites, there is considerable disagreement about the video performance of the Pioneer universal units. There are even glowing reviews in The Perfect Vision, The Absolute Sound and other magazines about the video performance of the Pioneers (and Marantz 8300).

    The data shown on the "Secrets" website is impressive and I would like to think it is real. I have been trying to find the data they have on the audio of the players too. Obviously I like data more than subjective feelings.

    PS: The whole point of my question is the comparison of the Denon 1600 to the Pioneer DV45. The Pioneer is a universal and would give me more choices on the preamp since most have only one set of six analog inputs. The Denon has none of the video problems but is DVD-A only and I will need a preamp that can take it AND the six inputs from my SACD player. (The Denon 2900 is too expensive and it's performance is untested)
     
  6. Brian Fitterman

    Brian Fitterman Stunt Coordinator

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    I guess I am one of the few who does not see it. I owned the Sony 9000ES and did not see it, and I now own the Marantz 8300 and do not see it. I have gone to chapters suggested by the Secrets website, and could not duplicate them on my set. (For reference I own a 55" Mits Diamond HDTV). Again this is just my opinion.

    Some might say ignorance is bliss, but it just not seem to bother me.

    Now sound is very important to me, so even if I saw it, I would most likely still buy the marantz and supliment it with a cheaper bug free unit for just watching DVD's.
     
  7. Sihan Goi

    Sihan Goi Second Unit

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    As Secrets has already pointed out, if you don't see the chroma bug, DON'T READ THE ARTICLES! Once you see them, you'll always see them. Its sorta like learning to drive or ride a bike, or swim. Once you learn it, you can't unlearn it...

    So you're "fortunate" if you don't see it, don't try to see it, live in bliss!

    I for one don't try to spot it.
     
  8. BobH

    BobH Stunt Coordinator

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    Yes, Sihan, it is too late for me; I have read the articles. I think the jury has condemned the Pioneers so soundly that it would be hard to ignore it. They try to say that their measurements are only separating the very best from the good, but they are pretty harsh on the Pioneer 45A for example. It's a pretty cheap universal player, but maybe you get what you pay for.
     
  9. andy ball

    andy ball Auditioning

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    does the new sony 300 disc changer have the chroma bug. I have a 64 inch pioneer hdtv, will i see it on my display?
     
  10. Mark All

    Mark All Second Unit

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    In the latest edition of "The Perfect Vision" magazine there's an interesting response to a letter sent in by a reader who questioned why the magazine never mentions the chroma bug in reviews of DVD players. To paraphrase the response, yes the chroma bug exists but it matters so little that reviews of equipment in the magazine don't mention it. In the response, Shane Buettner said that he uses the Sony 9000ES to display on a 7 ft wide screen and had to be shown what the chroma bug was in specific sections of specific DVDs. The chroma bug doesn't appear to be an issue meriting concern about a buying decision to the magazine's writers. I agree with them.

    From what I've read and seen myself, almost all DVD players (including Sony) with the exception of Panasonic and Faroudja-based players have the chroma bug, although different manufacturers are more successful than others at hiding the minor flaw. I have Toshiba and Pioneer progressive scan converters and have never been bothered by the chroma bug even though it can be seen if one looks very closely at unusual scenes on my 53 inch rear projection TV. However, I don't use those for DVD playback any more because I prefer the overall picture quality of a Panasonic CP-72 model. Both the Toshiba and Pioneer have a soft, film-like, image while I prefer the sharper image from the Panasonic. Not having the chroma bug is a bonus, I suppose, but I think a lot of other more important picture quality and personal preference factors come into play with DVD picture quality when it's output to a large display.
     
  11. Don Munsil

    Don Munsil Stunt Coordinator

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    I'm pretty sure Shane is running his 9000ES interlaced through a Faroudja processor, which hides the chroma bug.

    Don
     
  12. Greg Schwabacher

    Greg Schwabacher Stunt Coordinator

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    I have a DVP-S9000ES that I'm using with a VPL-HS10 projector on a 85" diagonal 16:9 screen and the chroma bug is obvious on certain scenes, particularly those that are a saturated red color. By far the worst instance of it I've seen was in the titles at the beginning of "From Hell." The problem was a lot less noticeable when I was using my KP-53HS10 RPTV as my primary display device.

    The bigger the screen, the more noticeable the problem. But it's definitely real. What's also strange is that the problem disappears when the player is paused.
     
  13. Allan Jayne

    Allan Jayne Cinematographer

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    I am seeing the chroma bug from time to time on regular NTSC broadcasts. These are probably HDTV shows that have been converted for the NTSC channels, or 480p or 480i DTV shows.

    Video hints:
    http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/video.htm
     
  14. PaulHeroy

    PaulHeroy Stunt Coordinator

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    It would make sense that the chroma bug disappears when the DVD is paused, because it has to do with information in alternate scan lines. With a single frame, you don't have those additional scan lines to create the problem.

    The article at Secrets is a really thorough explanation about NTSC interlaced video, and 4:4:4, 4:2:2 and other processing done, and how this relates to the chroma bug.
     
  15. ManojM

    ManojM Stunt Coordinator

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    My fiance who knows little about the technical aspects of DVD players, and cares even less, picked out the chroma bug on her own and asked me what was wrong with the picture. Anytime I have a player that I am testing with the chroma bug, she pretty much notices it. The last occasion happened with an episode of the Sopranos where she picked it out on a checkered bedspread pattern. She automatically assumes that it is a fault with the player, and asks why anyone would buy a player with this bug. This has been on a Pioneer Elite 520, Marantz 50" plasma, and Fujitsu 50" plasma.

    This goes to show that this is a phenomena that can be picked up by even those who are not "technical weenies," and once seen, will always annoy.
     
  16. Paul Arnette

    Paul Arnette Cinematographer

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    For what it is worth, I never noticed the chroma bug on my Pioneer DV-47Ai, which is being displayed on a Mitsubishi WS-55905, until I had my set ISF calibrated. [​IMG]

    It seems no good deed goes unpunished, even in home theater.
     

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