Is the b&w era of TV on DVD slowly coming to an end? (9 Viewers)

[jcroy]

The only Elvis tunes I've heard lately, is stuff like Heartbreak Hotel in "muzak" form playing on a pa system at a local shopping mall. I haven't heard any Beatles tunes in "muzak" form lately.

 

[Flashgear]

It might not be a sure thing, but were we not led to believe by those in the know that Shout plans on giving us The Westerner and Trackdown? If that happens, I'll be well set for westerns, with just about everything I really wanted, with the exception of The Grey Ghost...and a few others like Rin Tin Tin...

I dearly hope that Shout has found success with the Walmart exclusives...even with all the attendant problems that HTF members have had in getting them there...and, I hope they plan on more for that route beyond The Monroes...I've been getting them from Amazon now, with no problems, I just received The Loner last week...what a great release that is... great transfers and one of the absolute best extra documentaries on the making of the show...30 minutes, with interviews with Beau Bridges, Jon Burlingame and C. Courtney Joyner...Shout really pulled out the stops with that release...I of course hope for more of The Defenders too...

I'm really feeling less optimistic about Warner Archive...for me, other than the dearth of b+w tv, the most noticeable, (and in this case, very welcome) change in their output is the DRAMATIC increase in beautiful 4k scan remastered blu - rays of classic Warner, MGM and RKO features...Key Largo, Dark Passage, She Wore a Yellow Ribbon, Out of the Past, Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?, Cat on a Hot Tin Roof, etc...these are the equal of anything from Criterion, sans extras, at half the retail price...clearly, that new emphasis is expensive and might be diverting budget from other ongoing efforts...clearing music from old Warner and MGM b + w tv shows, perhaps? I wish we knew...I hope we see The Alaskans and Colt .45 at least, and sooner rather than later...my fantasy wish list from them would be Mr. Novak, Thin Man, The Outsider and the detective shows, of course...

 

[BobO'Link]

Yeah, it seems like the majority of the BW releases are from Shout! via that WM deal. At this point I'm hoping they continue. I picked up the first 2 seasons of Death Valley Days and would like to see more from that series.

 

[Randy Korstick]

I really believe the slowdown in black and white Warner Archive releases is due to the fact that they have released everything they can that doesn't have clearance issues. They have addressed the following as having clearance issues: Colt .45, The Alaskans, The 4 Detective shows, The Roaring 20;s, Mr. Novak, The Thin Man, and I believe a couple others. I think all of these would have been released or in the process of being released already if they could release them. They know people want them and have acknowledged that they are trying to clear them. So I think that as they clear these shows they will be released. It may be awhile yet or something may come soon and we may also get several at once. It all depends on when they are cleared. I really don't believe that they would enjoy being asked for these over and over again if they didn't have plans to release them still. I think when they give up on a show they will let us know but so far every show they have tried to clear was eventually cleared.

 

[JamesSmith]

I don't know Randy. There are some who believe that the executives at WB Archives are rubbing their hands gleefully since they know that several fans on this website are frustrated and anguished by the fact that their beloved forgotten Holy Grails are not available on DVD.

Right now, they're laughing at us.

James

 

[Frank Soyke]

So EVERY major show WB has left has so many clearance issues that they are too expensive to put out. Multi billion dollar company? Just not buying it folks. I'm sure there's truth in it.... But way overblown

 

[Randy Korstick]

Frank we are in the days where companies struggle to sell 2-3,000 copies of catalog titles on disc so you know they are not going to put huge money into any of these old tv shows. Plus we don't know how much money is needed or if money is the only rights issue. Rights issues can mean a lot of things. No one said they are too expensive.

 

[Bob Cashill]

The "radio," for me, and for many, is my iPod, iTunes, and Apple TV's music playlists. I hear nothing but the music described above as extinct But I see the point.

In a world where Rolling Stone publishes a Greatest 100 TV Shows list that includes five from the 50s, one ranked No. 7 (The Twilight Zone) and the next highest is No. 32 (I Love Lucy), with a meager showing by cop/detective, Western, and classic dramas from ANY era--well, you're not going to get much of this stuff, past YouTube or other streaming alternatives. (I believe there are are only seven B/W shows on the entire list.) Culturally, these shows are long forgotten--it's Fahrenheit 451 time, time to memorize them and repeat them in an endless loop.

http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/list...-time-w439520/orange-is-the-new-black-w439600

 

[John Karras]

Frank we are in the days where companies struggle to sell 2-3,000 copies of catalog titles on disc so you know they are not going to put huge money into any of these old tv shows. Plus we don't know how much money is needed or if money is the only rights issue. Rights issues can mean a lot of things. No one said they are too expensive.

Don't forget about transfer costs as well as rights issues. It's actually quite amazing the amount of "niche titles" that have been released considering the number of times that companies like Shout have taken a real financial bath on them. I know that some past titles have barely sold 1,000 units.

 

[jcroy]

So EVERY major show WB has left has so many clearance issues that they are too expensive to put out. Multi billion dollar company? Just not buying it folks. I'm sure there's truth in it.... But way overblown

What we don't know is how much of that billions of $$$ is allocated to Warner Archive specifically. Time-Warner is a giant conglomerate with many divisions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assets_owned_by_Time_Warner
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_Warner

Besides just like any other large corporation, the C-level executives need to pay themselves a lot so that they can support all their cocaine habits, hookers, alimony, giant McMansions, etc ... and other high priced vices.

 

[Randy Korstick]

What we don't know is how much of that billions of $$$ is allocated to Warner Archive specifically. Time-Warner is a giant conglomerate with many divisions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assets_owned_by_Time_Warner
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_Warner

Warner Archive is not very large at all. An insider mentioned a long time ago that they are just a single office and their staff are very swamped. The discs are manufactured for them by another company and all the re-mastering and transfers are done somewhere else in Warner Brothers. But they have been profitable for Warner Brothers so I think they will continue even when most other disc producers are gone because of the lower cost manufacture on demand distribution.

 

[Neil Brock]

So EVERY major show WB has left has so many clearance issues that they are too expensive to put out. Multi billion dollar company? Just not buying it folks. I'm sure there's truth in it.... But way overblown

So, you are assuming that just because a company is huge it means that they will put time, money and effort into releasing product that will lose money. And they would do this why? They aren't a charitable entity and they aren't emotionally attached to the shows that they would want to put them out at a loss just so that the few people who want it could see it. That goes for not just Warner but every other company. The only reason that we have even seen some of the obscurities we have is that some studios, like MGM, transferred their library over to tape at one time or another. But other than Warner Archive, I think the chances of seeing shows that require mastering from film elements at this point is virtually zero, unless the transfers are supported by a network sale, like Our Miss Brooks was funded by ME-TV.

 

[jcroy]

What would be the likelihood of older 1950s era tv shows going out of copyright and becoming public domain?

If such old shows/movies end up in the public domain, where would the old film reels and/or transfers end up?

For example, would the studios donate the old out-of-copyright film reels/transfers to a place like the UCLA film archive?

 

[JoeDoakes]

What would be the likelihood of older 1950s era tv shows going out of copyright and becoming public domain?

If such old shows/movies end up in the public domain, where would the old film reels and/or transfers end up?

For example, would the studios donate the old out-of-copyright film reels/transfers to a place like the UCLA film archive?

I don't know when the maximum copyright date of various 50s shows may be, but allowing something to go public domain would remove it from the balance sheet, which would impact any company's borrowing power. It's not likely to happen with a major studio at this point in time.

 

[rjd0309]

the C-level executives need to pay themselves a lot so that they can support all their cocaine habits, hookers, alimony, giant McMansions, etc ... and other high priced vices.

So this is how the executives at Warners manage to keep themselves busy?

 

[Frank Soyke]

Warner Archive is not very large at all. An insider mentioned a long time ago that they are just a single office and their staff are very swamped. The discs are manufactured for them by another company and all the re-mastering and transfers are done somewhere else in Warner Brothers. But they have been profitable for Warner Brothers so I think they will continue even when most other disc producers are gone because of the lower cost manufacture on demand distribution.

Hey Randy, I know in the past you and I have disagreed somewhat on this issue. I guess my root point is that even though I acknowledge that clearance costs can be very pricey and the sales potential must live up to the cost paid for clearances, I sometimes wonder if WA somewhat embellishes that fact to justify to we fans why they don't release a show they didn't want to put out in the first place. Think about it, it's a lot better for them PR wise to say, "77 Sunset Strip has clearance problems we are trying to work out" than to say to us " we have no interest in putting that out because we don't think it's worth it sales wise". I just don't trust these distributors. Mr. Novak is a prime example. Reportedly there are major clearance issues with a season 2 ep with a lot of music in it. Ok, I can accept that.... so then why not at least put out season 1. Because they dont think the sales would merit it, that's why. They just don't want to say so because guys Ike us on this forum are their bread and butter and they don't want to risk future sales of other releases by offending us. It's spin, pure and simple.
That's just my take. I'd just rather them tell me that they dont want to put out Hawaiian Eye because they don't think it will sell than keep leaning on this clearance crutch.

 

[Regulus]

I have to make a confession. The MAJORITY of B&W Series (including one series that lasted a whopping 19 seasons, and I shelled out $700.00 to get it) in my collection were obtained via "other means". I don't condone doing this, but on the other hand (and I'm sure you've heard this saying countless times;If you want something and whoever is supposed to supply it refuses to do so, you have to get it from "somewhere else".

 

[jperez]

That's the only way to see all or most episodes of series that have never been released officially: Ben Casey, Channing, Adventures in Paradise, Lancer, Long Hot Summer, It's a Man's World, Empire, 12 O'Clock High, The Rogues, No, it's not legal and its frowned upon, but I think the real issue would be for series that have been released officially and are also being made available in pirate versions. Anyway, there are some -It's a Man's World, Lancer, East Side/West Side, Long Hot Summer- that are almost completely available nowdays on YouTube.

 

[John Karras]

Anyway, there are some -It's a Man's World, Lancer, East Side/West Side, Long Hot Summer- that are almost completely available nowdays on YouTube.

And let's not forget those who are responsible for those shows being available for all to enjoy.

 

[Randy Korstick]

Hey Randy, I know in the past you and I have disagreed somewhat on this issue. I guess my root point is that even though I acknowledge that clearance costs can be very pricey and the sales potential must live up to the cost paid for clearances, I sometimes wonder if WA somewhat embellishes that fact to justify to we fans why they don't release a show they didn't want to put out in the first place. Think about it, it's a lot better for them PR wise to say, "77 Sunset Strip has clearance problems we are trying to work out" than to say to us " we have no interest in putting that out because we don't think it's worth it sales wise". I just don't trust these distributors. Mr. Novak is a prime example. Reportedly there are major clearance issues with a season 2 ep with a lot of music in it. Ok, I can accept that.... so then why not at least put out season 1. Because they dont think the sales would merit it, that's why. They just don't want to say so because guys Ike us on this forum are their bread and butter and they don't want to risk future sales of other releases by offending us. It's spin, pure and simple.
That's just my take. I'd just rather them tell me that they dont want to put out Hawaiian Eye because they don't think it will sell than keep leaning on this clearance crutch.

Its not always that simple. They didn't know how lengthy and complicated the issues with the detective shows were until they started to clear them and ran into many unforeseen issues. Regarding Mr. Novak Warner Archive normally has a steady release pattern when they start releasing a show and they have had very few stalled shows. They don't want to release season 1 and then have the show stalled at season 2 since they do not know how long the clearance is going to take.
A big company like Warner Brothers does not tease customers with potential releases they have no intention of releasing just to be cruel. I don't think you can honestly believe that. If they cannot release a show or if/when they have given up on clearing a show they will let us know. It saves them the trouble of having to answer the same questions over and over. I certainly wouldn't be offended if they told us the truth that they cannot release a show. Most would understand so I seriously doubt that would prevent someone from buying another show they wanted just because a show can't be released.