Is "South Pacific" a Good Transfer? (1 Viewer)

[Joe Caps]

Greg. You are quite right. Ray walston is dubbed by Fox chorus alumnist Rad Robinson. Why? they wanted a smoother tone thaan Walston hd.


Some one earlier mentioned thatdubber Bill Lee is a tenor. He is not He is a baritone.

 

[Matt Hough]

Originally Posted by MatthewA




I have always wondered how much the general public knew about vocal dubbing prior to My Fair Lady. I also wonder if there's a comprehensive list of who dubbed whom available anywhere.

One of our members here was working on a book on that very subject, but I can't remember who it was.

 

[Joe Caps]

Also want to mention. Ava Gardner did NOT rerecord her vocals for the MGM album of Show Boat.

She recorded her vocals for the film and she filmed to her own voice.

Annette warren later overdubbed to Avas already filmed image.

 

[Matt Hough]

MGM also previewed the film sometimes with Ava's vocals and sometimes with Annette's. The decision was made to retain the Warren tracks for the film's official release but use Ava's tracks for the soundtrack album.

 

[Johnny Angell]

Originally Posted by GMpasqua




Actually, Ray Walston was also dubbed - the few lines he had, have no idea why. The others sailors were all dubbed as were Emille's children

I presume your are referring only to his singing lines and I find it odd that they use a voice that I thought wasn't very good. I remember thinking how thin his voice sounded.


Getting away from the dubbing, while the transfer is marvelous, I found elements of the film itself that bothered me. I found that I could watch several of the supporting players "act" which is never a good thing. In particular, the two officers the Nellie frequently reported to. At times, a bit hammy, I thought. Then there's the song "Happy Talk." The gestures by Liat during the song were so incredibly, over the top, so cute as to be saccharine. I thought that sequence was more appropriate for the crowd that enjoys glitter covered unicorns.


Yes, wonderful music, but the execution of the film is dated, IMHO.

 

[GMpasqua]

Quote: Originally Posted by Johnny Angell I found that I could watch several of the supporting players "act" which is never a good thing. In particular, the two officers the Nellie frequently reported to. At times, a bit hammy, I thought.

You think? The older guy, esp when he rolls his "R's" "I don't consider my self Thrrrrrrrrrrough". The other guy is stiff as a board. These two play to the back row and hold for laughs, very bad for film. At least Brazzi under plays the role and Gaynor doesn't get too weighted down in motivation. Bill Kerr, on the other hand, looks bored as hell to be in this

 

[MatthewA]

Originally Posted by GMpasqua

Bill Kerr, on the other hand, looks bored as hell to be in this

He was never the most energetic actor to begin with.


Was Ray Walston also dubbed in Damn Yankees?

 

[Mark B]

Originally Posted by MatthewA




I also wonder if there's a comprehensive list of who dubbed whom available anywhere.

http://www.barbaralea.com/Dubbers/dubberslist.html

 

[Matt Hough]

Originally Posted by MatthewA



He was never the most energetic actor to begin with.


Was Ray Walston also dubbed in Damn Yankees?

No.

 

[Cinescott]

Originally Posted by GMpasqua

You think? The older guy, esp when he rolls his "R's" "I don't consider my self Thrrrrrrrrrrough". The other guy is stiff as a board. These two play to the back row and hold for laughs, very bad for film. At least Brazzi under plays the role and Gaynor doesn't get too weighted down in motivation. Bill Kerr, on the other hand, looks bored as hell to be in this

The whole movie does play like a stage production, which has always made it even more interesting to me. The filters, the timing of the dialog, the very long, uncut camera technique, etc. all add to the stage "feel." It's unlike any other R&H movie I have seen, with the possible exception of "The King and I," which I haven't seen in a while. I'd really love to see South Pacific on the stage; I think I'd have an even bigger appreciation for it.


Ironically, if I kind of block out the location, the movie seems to flow better for me. It would be interesting to see what would have happened if Joshua Logan had actually treated it as a piece of pure cinema rather than a stage play set on location.


For a long time, I had felt that a big screen re-make of SP would have been interesting, and maybe it still would be, but I can never get this one out of my mind. It's not a timeless adaptation, but it holds its own. Happy Talk is a very goofy number in the movie, but the song is very good. It's very light compared to the heavy numbers before and after it, like Some Enchanted Evening and This Nearly Was Mine. The execution of the song on film, though does seem silly. Bloody Mary's delivery of the song doesn't help either, IMO. Too much emphasis on the consonants.



"Happy TTTTTTalk keep TTTTTTTalking haPPPPPy TTTTTTTTTTalk." Ouch. IMO, it just made a potentially silly song definitely so, even for the 50s. Had it been done in a sort of light-hearted, straighter way, I think it would have been better. I have no doubt anyone under 30 who sees that song would just roll their eyes and walk away. Had I ever admitted to anyone in high school (the early 80s) that I actually liked this movie and watched it when I didn't have to, they would have thought me gay or really effeminate. I couldn't really blame them when this one song is taken out of context among the towering songs all around it.

 

[ahollis]

Originally Posted by GMpasqua

You think? The older guy, esp when he rolls his "R's" "I don't consider my self Thrrrrrrrrrrough". The other guy is stiff as a board. These two play to the back row and hold for laughs, very bad for film. At least Brazzi under plays the role and Gaynor doesn't get too weighted down in motivation. Bill Kerr, on the other hand, looks bored as hell to be in this

The older guy, Russ Brown, also played the coach in the stage and film versions of DAMN YANKEES. He also appeared in THE CARDINAL, ADVISE & CONSENT, IT HAPPENED TO JANE, and ANATOMY OF A MURDER among other titles. He was mostly a stage actor.

 

[Rob_Ray]

Originally Posted by ahollis





The older guy, Russ Brown, also played the coach in the stage and film versions of DAMN YANKEES. He also appeared in THE CARDINAL, ADVISE & CONSENT, IT HAPPENED TO JANE, and ANATOMY OF A MURDER among other titles. He was mostly a stage actor.

The Warner Archives disc set entitled Vitaphone Varieties has a 1928 vaudeville short with Russ Brown and a female vaudeville partner. With thick, wavy black hair he's almost indistinguishable from the Russ Brown of South Pacific and Damn Yankees, but the voice was unmistakable. He's a stage actor through and through which accounts for his broad performance on film.

 

[Rob_Ray]

Originally Posted by Cinescott




The whole movie does play like a stage production, which has always made it even more interesting to me. The filters, the timing of the dialog, the very long, uncut camera technique, etc. all add to the stage "feel." It's unlike any other R&H movie I have seen, with the possible exception of "The King and I," which I haven't seen in a while. I'd really love to see South Pacific on the stage; I think I'd have an even bigger appreciation for it.


Ironically, if I kind of block out the location, the movie seems to flow better for me. It would be interesting to see what would have happened if Joshua Logan had actually treated it as a piece of pure cinema rather than a stage play set on location.


For a long time, I had felt that a big screen re-make of SP would have been interesting, and maybe it still would be, but I can never get this one out of my mind. It's not a timeless adaptation, but it holds its own. Happy Talk is a very goofy number in the movie, but the song is very good. It's very light compared to the heavy numbers before and after it, like Some Enchanted Evening and This Nearly Was Mine. The execution of the song on film, though does seem silly. Bloody Mary's delivery of the song doesn't help either, IMO. Too much emphasis on the consonants.



"Happy TTTTTTalk keep TTTTTTTalking haPPPPPy TTTTTTTTTTalk." Ouch. IMO, it just made a potentially silly song definitely so, even for the 50s. Had it been done in a sort of light-hearted, straighter way, I think it would have been better. I have no doubt anyone under 30 who sees that song would just roll their eyes and walk away. Had I ever admitted to anyone in high school (the early 80s) that I actually liked this movie and watched it when I didn't have to, they would have thought me gay or really effeminate. I couldn't really blame them when this one song is taken out of context among the towering songs all around it.

I always liked the film of South Pacific with all its faults because of the superb Alfred Newman orchestrations. But I never fully understood why it won the Pulitzer Prize. I figured it was just the right show at the right time, coming just four years after the end of the war and with R&H's usual timeless score. The cast was adequate, Mitzi Gaynor had a bright, perky screen presence and a nice voice, Juanita Hall was so obviously dubbed and Happy Talk was a pleasant song given a silly treatment. The last half-hour dragged along with the score running out of songs and the plot chugging along regardless.


Then I saw the stage show at Lincoln Center last year. Oh. My. God! And then I knew why this was one of the great works of the American Theatre. The last act was vastly superior to the film, because the opening up done by Logan and the screenwriters destroyed the symmetry of the piece. I could go on for days about how the stage show's structure was complete perfection, but I'll focus on "Happy Talk" since it's been covered here. On the stage, the Act II curtain goes up at the rehearsals for the Thanksgiving Show. "Happy Talk" is sung backstage. Cable is just out of the hospital recouperating from malaria and Bloody Mary finds him. The happy days on Bali Ha'i are only referred to but not shown. By this point in the story, she already knows his romance with Liat is doomed and she sings "Happy Talk" with a desperate air as one last attempt to lure Cable back to her vision of the post-war future. One feels sympathy for Bloody Mary, because we know it's all in vain. There's none of the saccharine feeling of the movie.


Song after song which lays there on film springs brilliantly to life on stage, especially "This Nearly Was Mine" which was Emile's heart-wrenching showstopper when not truncated as in the movie.


The story opens with the two children at the patio table singing "Dites Moi." So when we finally close with the same setup, as in the film, you realize that these two innocent, cherubic, most minor of characters, were the cause of all of Nellie and Emile's trauma. And that, just as much as "You've Got to Be Carefully Taught" makes audiences realize how pointless racial prejudice can be. It's an astounding work and hasn't been done justice on screen.


But the Alfred Newman orchestrations are still great.

 

[GMpasqua]

Originally Posted by Rob_Ray





I never fully understood why it won the Pulitzer Prize. I figured it was just the right show at the right time, coming just four years after the end of the war and with R&H's usual timeless score.

It probably had a lot to do with the race relations in the film and the broader message it was delivering.

This was the late 1940's and times were different. Inter-racial marriages were still against the law in many places. Here you have a main character who fled Europe because he killed a man, married a woman not of his race and had children with her. That's a lot for an audience to take in let alone a young girl from Arkansas.

 

[Cinescott]

Originally Posted by GMpasqua
It probably had a lot to do with the race relations in the film and the broader message it was delivering.

I think without question this is the reason. South Pacific does carry a very strong message through its story and songs and manages to do it very well without beating the audience over the head with it. Emille's children and late wife are who they are and he makes no apologies for them. That was pretty bold for the 40s, I'd imagine.


The movie regardless of any faults, showcases some pretty fantastic music and that's what has kept me coming back to it over the years. The music is just so hauntingly beautiful that it's enough to bring a person to tears in the vein of the best European operas. It was obvious to me as a teenager and has stayed with me to this day. When the last note is hit in "Some Enchanted Evening," I get a chill every single time. It never fails.


"Once you have found her, never let her go. Once you have found her, ne........ver..............let....................her.....................................................goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo."

 

[Charles Smith]

Giorgio Tozzi, Esteemed Bass at the Met, Is Dead at 88 By MARGALIT FOX Giorgio Tozzi, a distinguished bass who spent two decades with the Metropolitan Opera and also appeared on film, television and Broadway, died on Monday in Bloomington, Ind. He was 88. The cause was a heart attack, his son, Eric, said.


At his death, Mr. Tozzi (pronounced TOT-zee) was a distinguished professor emeritus at Indiana University’s Jacobs School of Music, where he had taught since 1991. He was previously on the Juilliard School faculty.


On film Mr. Tozzi dubbed the singing voice of the actor Rossano Brazzi in the role of Emile de Becque in “South Pacific” (1958), directed by Joshua Logan. (Mr. Tozzi had played the role himself, opposite Mary Martin, in a West Coast production of the musical the year before.)


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/02/arts/music/giorgio-tozzi-esteemed-bass-at-the-met-dies-at-88.html?ref=music


RIP, sir.

 

[ahollis]

Sorry to disappoint you but the Lincoln Center production did a lot re-staging. I did SOUTH PACIFIC in high school and "Happy Talk" was sung on the island basically like it is in the movie, with Bloody Mary singing the song, with Liat and Cable reacting. Logan, and R&H did take a lot of liberties with moving around scenes and songs in the movie to up the action and I agree with you that the play strats with the two kids singing. The movement of scenes and songs in film versions is a Rogers and Hammerstein trait.

Originally Posted by Rob_Ray

Then I saw the stage show at Lincoln Center last year. Oh. My. God! And then I knew why this was one of the great works of the American Theatre. The last act was vastly superior to the film, because the opening up done by Logan and the screenwriters destroyed the symmetry of the piece. I could go on for days about how the stage show's structure was complete perfection, but I'll focus on "Happy Talk" since it's been covered here. On the stage, the Act II curtain goes up at the rehearsals for the Thanksgiving Show. "Happy Talk" is sung backstage. Cable is just out of the hospital recouperating from malaria and Bloody Mary finds him. The happy days on Bali Ha'i are only referred to but not shown. By this point in the story, she already knows his romance with Liat is doomed and she sings "Happy Talk" with a desperate air as one last attempt to lure Cable back to her vision of the post-war future. One feels sympathy for Bloody Mary, because we know it's all in vain. There's none of the saccharine feeling of the movie.

 

[Cinescott]

Larry Hagman's mom and that Pinza guy

 

[Cinescott]

Originally Posted by Chas in CT (1958), directed by Joshua Logan. (Mr. Tozzi had played the role himself, opposite Mary Martin, in a West Coast production of the musical the year before.)


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/02/arts/music/giorgio-tozzi-esteemed-bass-at-the-met-dies-at-88.html?ref=music


RIP, sir.

Wow, I didn't realize this was from yesterday's New York Times until I read closer. RIP, indeed, Mr. Tozzi. You were an artist. How weird considering my last post from yesterday..........

 

[Johnny Angell]

Scott, thanks for that clip. I wonder if that was from the Ed Sullivan Show? That show preserved quite a few moments from Broadway. I have always wondered when there's a big booming male voice just inches from the the partner's ear, is it difficult to keep from flinching?