Is "High Noon" the Greatest Western ever made? (1 Viewer)

[teapot2001]

I watched Access Hollywood last night, and in the bottom news ticker it showed that High Noon was selected as the greatest western, though I forget by whom.

~T

 

[Werner_R]

I would like to add Pale Rider to an already great list of westerns, Clint Eastwood again as "the man with no name". Although some consider this as a bit similar to Shane.

My no1 is still Once upon a time in the West.

 

[Craig S]

I believe participants in this thread will enjoy reading this reassessment of High Noon by Glenn Erickson, AKA DVD Savant. It's kind of a contrary view, but agree with him or not Erickson is always an interesting read, and he makes & backs up his points quite well.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Interesting read and though I don't agree with everything Erickson wrote, I totally respect his point of view and he did confirm the importance High Noon had on some great westerns made years later.




Crawdaddy

 

[Seth Paxton]

Overrated or not, as they are derivative (of the genre) it would be hard for me to place them high up on a list of (real) Westerns.

Derivative of what??
Westerns? Hmm, kinda funny you would say that with so much obvious influence from Kurosawa, who's own films were more derivitive of Westerns than Leone's end up being, IMO (not that they are really derivitive, but the influence is more obvious). Leone made Westerns in a way that no one had made them before, by shifting an already shifted version of Ford's work back into the Western setting he reinvented the genre (again IMO.)
Has the anti-hero ever been more dominate than it is in a Leone flick? Certainly there are no good guys in Good, Bad, and Ugly, in spite of the name. Whatever dark side Wayne shows in The Searchers, he still looks downright sweet compared to the totally apathetic "man with no name" that Clint plays, a man devoid of almost any respect for other men (though oddly touched by the scene at the bridge).
So I just don't see Leone's work as derivitive at all. He was doing things in new ways and telling stories that hadn't been told in quite the same way. And if anything he would be derivitive of Kurosawa who brought us the Japanese version of a "Western" hero, one with a totally different moral code.
For me GBU is so much more a search for sanity within an insane world, and I don't think it's ever found either. I don't think a real moral resolution comes about, yet I think the film unearths many moral questions. It just seems to be saying to us that there are no answers.
But a standard Western clearly does define a moral code and chooses sides. In High Noon there is little doubt that Cooper is in the right, is the hero, and should be avenged. The film portrays things in that way, and resolves things that way. The final scene telling the audience that Cooper was right and that the townspeople deserve to be forsaken.
I'm not knocking such moral stands in the least, btw. I'm just saying that Leone broke from those conventions, and I think part of the reason is from the altered moral view passed over from Kurosawa (thanks to the Japanese culture). A moral view where something like honor can come before kindness.
George, Blazing Saddles, excellent call. Not making light of the thread because comedic treatments of the genre should also count since they are sub-genres. BS has to be one of the best comedies, period, but it's very strong as a Western because of the fact that it addresses so many of the Western conventions and morals. Seeing them joked about often helps us better understand just what these conventions and structures are because we are getting a different view/angle of them.
And when you think about it, Blazing Saddles has a VERY strong tie to High Noon. Both feature a town sheriff trying to take a stand against some outlaws while the town refuses to help him. Not only that but we have a town meeting in a church discussing it as well.
And both films feature candigrams. :p)

 

[Seth Paxton]

Hey, I didn't realize this till tonight but Turner is running a month long focus on westerns (Every Great Western* *except Shane). They just had Paint Your Wagon on, to be followed by Butch Cassidy... and then Josey Wales, among others.

So if this talk of westerns got you interested in seeing some of them, now is your chance on TCM.

I haven't been by the website yet to look at the rest of the schedule, but I would advise people to do so.

 

[teapot2001]

Hey, I didn't realize this till tonight but Turner is running a month long focus on westerns

You should try reading some of Crawdaddy's sticky TCM threads.
~T

 

[nousername]

What about Back to the Future: Part III?
Here's a quote from Entertainment Weekly: The 100 Greatest Movies of All Time, 1999:

? Sure--but much, much higher.

 

[teapot2001]

BTTF3 is one of the funniest westerns.

"Everybody, everywhere, will say Clint Eastwood is the biggest yeller belly in the west."

~T

 

[DeeF]

Now that we've had a chance to debate the best Western movie, what do we think of the DVDs?

The Searchers was released very early on DVD (1997). I think the transfer is fine, but I'd like to hear from some others who may have seen the movie in the movie theater.

High Noon was recently re-released with a new transfer, which looks to my eye quite odd, very smooth and flat, no skin tones, very videolike, not filmlike. Is this indicative of the original movie, or is it an admirable cleanup of decaying elements?

Of recent DVD releases, a particular favorite "Western" might be She Wore A Yellow Ribbon, a beautiful Technicolor transfer.

 

[Joseph Bolus]

Since I didn't "get" Westerns until the 60's, my favorite Western is The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly.

I do have High Noon in my top five, though.

As far as a "groundbreaking" Western, it seems to me that Butch Cassidy has to be up there. We had never seen anything quite like it up to that point.

As a very casual fan of the genre, here's my Top Ten (PLEASE NOTE that I've never even seen Rio Bravo!!!):

1. The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly
2. The Magnificent Seven
3. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid
4. High Noon
5. Once Upon a Time in the West
6. My Darling Clementine
7. The Outlaw Josey Wells
8. Maverick (OK, but this movie is a lot of fun!)
9. Silverado
10. The Searchers (I know this is probably very unfair to this movie, but this is my list.)

Again, this is from the perspective of a casual fan, who would still welcome at least one good Western a year out of Hollywood.

 

[Aaron Silverman]

Westerns. . .one of those strange genres for me. I think that in my brief 31-year life, I haven't seen more than a dozen Westerns overall! What makes it strange is that now that I think about it, I *liked* them all!!!

Anyway, since I can't claim to be an expert, I just want to give The Wild Bunch some props--only a couple of people have mentioned it so far, and it really is a brilliant film.

As for High Noon, I saw it a few years ago and it's a little hazy in my memory, but I do remember being a little disappointed in its entertainment value while seeing what elements made it known as a classic.

 

[John Sturge]

My Top Westerns:
The Wild Bunch
Stagecoach
Little Big Man
Yojimbo(a western in my general opinion)
The Searchers
Giù la testa
Barquero
Unforgiven
Red River
The Big Trail
Django
Dead Man

As for High Noon, I just don't like it.

 

[Zen Butler]

High Noon , does break in to my top 10, but barely. Do I think it's over-rated? No. The western genre is skimpy. I believe the whole genre itself is under-rated. So even though High Noon is not the best western, it's much better than many other movies of the time of other genres.
My list is approx:
1. Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (the best in my opinion, spine-tingling, tense, ahead of its time)
2. Shane (a true western, very overlooked in this thread?)
3. The Searchers
4. Rio Bravo
5. Once Upon a Time in the West
many follow the above five

 

[Zen Butler]

7. Winchester '75

that would be '73

 

[Randy Korstick]

My Favorites in Order:

1.) Once Upon a Time in the West (All at the same time: the deepest, darkest, moodiest, most complex and most Romantic western I have ever seen)
2.) The Searchers
3.) For a Few Dollars More ( the most underated of Leone's westerns, I prefer the Van Cleef/Volante story to Eastwood in this one)
4.) Dodge City (simply one of the best and epic for its time)
5.) The Good, The Bad and The Ugly
6.) The Magnificent Seven
7.) Dances with Wolves
8.) High Plains Drifter
9.) The Comancheros (A fun and often overlooked western)
10.) Bend of the River
11.) The Naked Spur
12.) Rio Bravo
13.) Duel at Diablo
14.) The Wild Bunch
15.) Gunfight at O.K. Corral

 

[Mark Zimmer]

It's been a long, long time since I saw Rio Bravo but I've never felt even slightly inclined to revisit it. Not so High Noon. If not the best Western, it's right up there, and the subtext of man as loner is expressed nowhere better. I don't think Rio Bravo would make my list of top 25 westerns, somewhere below a couple of Lash La Rue pictures.
And heck, Tex Ritter singing the theme song by that old cowpoke Dmitri Tiomkin all the way through? It don't get much better than that, pardner!

 

[RMajidi]

After watching "High Noon" for the third time this week due to the new dvd release and making comparisons between this release and the previous dvd release, I think it's approriate to talk about "High Noon" again especially in comparison to other great westerns such as "The Searchers" and "Rio Bravo". For most of my life, I thought both, "The Searchers" and "Rio Bravo" were the best westerns ever made, but over the years "High Noon" has been climbing my personal opinion chart in comparison to those other two great films. Matter of fact, I'm ready to state something that I never thought would happen and that is "High Noon" is perhaps the best western ever made and in some regard bypasses "The Searchers" and "Rio Bravo". This is very strange for me to admit this because "The Searchers" has been and still is my favorite film of all-time, but after taking a very deep look into "High Noon" while watching a couple of features about the film as well as an audio commentary about the film, I came away with a more appreciative opinion about "High Noon" and it's place in cinematic history.

I know others will want to challenge my assertion and perhaps debate the status of the three films I have mentioned in my post which is why I think this thread is an appropriate place for this discussion to occur. I have linked two other previous threads about westerns to read again for those willing to participate in this discussion.

Howard Hawks: Rio Bravo

The Searchers and Red River


Crawdaddy

I'm 13 years late to this party, and some might rightfully protest a thread of such venerable age being disturbed from peaceful slumber.

Stumbled across this while searching references to High Noon and read the existing posts with interest. Glad that so many of the original posters on this thread are still active contributors on HTF - 13 years on.

If any care to help rekindle this discussion, I'm all for it. There have been brilliant restorations of many Western classics since this thread last experienced activity, no doubt bringing greater awareness to this great genre; so it might be timely to revisit this topic. [There may have been similar threads in all this time, so if this posting is out of line, then my apologies in advance].

For one thing, I'm curious whether OP Robert Crawford's opinions/feelings on this have changed in the intervening years??

High Noon is certainly among my favourite movies (not just Westerns) and in it can be seen the roots of A Man For All Seasons, Fred Zinnemann's later monumental achievement.

John Ford's cinematic artistry (across all genres) blows me away, including in The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance and The Searchers, among his many Westerns that I love and own (still haven't seen Stagecoach though - go figure!)

From what I gather, Howard Hawks' reported distaste for High Noon stems from political roots. No matter! If it spurred him on to respond with the excellent Rio Bravo, then I'm glad of it.

For mine, William Wyler's The Big Country also belongs in this conversation (though not a 'traditional' Western), as does George Stevens' Shane.

 

[Mike Frezon]

Personally, I love the revival of old threads.


Maybe that's because I'm an old guy!


But, sadly, Ramin, you mention the members who posted in this thread back in '02. While you see many that are still active here, I see so many that are no longer active. Some of them I miss greatly.


I don't know how I missed posting in this thread 12 years ago. But High Noon ranks high on my list of great westerns. But, I must admit that since I've joined the forum, I have been exposed to many other great westerns--many of them by reading Crawdaddy's enthusiastic posts.

 

[atfree]

My top 10:

1. The Searchers
2. She Wore a Yellow Ribbon
3. The Wild Bunch
4. The Magnificent Seven
5. The Outlaw Josey Wales
6. Shane
7. The Naked Spur
8. Winchester 73
9. Unforgiven
10. The Big Country

Hard list cause there's about 25 more I could mention!