Is anyone here studying martial arts? (1 Viewer)

[Calvin_Su]

I also have a few friends who worked as bouncers a few years ago. They said that every fight went to the ground, no exceptions.

 

[Alex Prosak]

Calvin,

If I had the choice of being hit by a boxer or a martial artist, I'd get hit by the boxer any day. Boxing and karate or kung fu are completely different when it comes to striking. Good boxers can hit with between 600-800 psi behind their strikes while a master martial artist will hit with around 2000 psi.

People who train in either boxing or karate for sport are training completely differently in respect to offense and defense as well. Boxers keep their arms in closer to their body and closer together because their opponent won't be able to get their gloves through, a fist could pass through easily. Martial artists train to fight with their hands and arms out more to create distance and to make it easier to block by moving less, it's much more efficient.

I do agree that if you want to train for nhb events, grappling is a must. However, most people have no interest in this. One of the virtues of karate is not to win 100 out of 100 fights but to avoid 100 out of 100 fights. However, if you can't avoid the fight, be mentally and physically prepared to incapacitate your opponent quickly and painfully. Don't give them any indication of the damage you can inflict, be calm and passive and then explode.

Personally, I have a lot of respect for the nhb guys, their toughness and martial skills are amazing and admirable. However, IMHO, because of their willingness to participate in these events, they are not true martial artists. They still have a lot of learning to do.

 

[JoshF]

Personally, I have a lot of respect for the nhb guys, their toughness and martial skills are amazing and admirable. However, IMHO, because of their willingness to participate in these events, they are not true martial artists. They still have a lot of learning to do.

And that is so true it hurts. I find it curious that all the UFC and nhb and BJJ guys laud the superiority of their martial art, citing examples from televised events that are one step shy of WWE matches (and that distance diminishes every event I see). The truth is that a true karateka wouldn't even join one of those events.
Some things we learn in karate: Learn the ways of zen. Be at peace. Don't look for a fight. If you are threatened into a fight, try to avoid the fight. If you can't avoid the fight, try to run. If you can't run, defend yourself by debilitating the attacker. Then call the doctor to help him/her. Show respect.
I don't want to start a "karate is better than x" flame war here, because it just won't end. I respect anyone who chooses to find self confidence in learning how to fight, but I don't respect those who feel the need to prove why their chosen path is the right one. That just shows that he or she is on the wrong path and will eventually get him/herself in trouble on the street.
Hear the grasshopper before you see it.

 

[PatB]

Calvin: He is also the Chief-Instructor for the American Wing Tsun Organization (AWTO) and the Scandinavian

(Finland, Sweden, Norway) Wing Tsun Organization (SWTO) and divides his time between America and Europe. He has trained

many elite Police and Military Personnel, including the Hostage Rescue Team (HRT) of the FBI and the 4th Recon Battalion of the U.S. Marine Corps.

This passage is from a bio on one of the leading Wing-Tsun practitioners. Now I don't want to get into a big thing about how true this is or what it means, I was just mentioning something that I had heard.

How can this question ever be answered anyways? If they really are martial "arts" it's like debating if classical music is better than oil paintings.

Whatever form someone is learning is going to be the one that they support, that's where their time and money is going so this should surprise no one. Reminds me of some "my PS2 is better than your X-box" threads in some other places on the HTF.

I'm more interested in individuals impressions of their training and martial arts in general.

(And as for talking to a few bouncers, does that really constitute a thorough study?)

 

[Calvin_Su]

And as for talking to a few bouncers, does that really constitute a thorough study?

Those are just the bouncers that I know personally, I've heard the same statement from a TON of other bouncers.

 

[Calvin_Su]

Personally, I have a lot of respect for the nhb guys, their toughness and martial skills are amazing and admirable. However, IMHO, because of their willingness to participate in these events, they are not true martial artists. They still have a lot of learning to do.

What makes you think you can pass judgement on these fighters? What makes you think it is so immoral? Do you also hold boxers and kickboxers in the same regard?

NHB is actually as safe as most sports out there. Notice how many times soccer and football players mess up their ankles and knees? That is just as bad, if not worse than what you see in NHB. In NHB, no one has ever been critically injured.

 

[Alex Prosak]

NHB is actually as safe as most sports out there. Notice how many times soccer and football players mess up their ankles and knees? That is just as bad, if not worse than what you see in NHB. In NHB, no one has ever been critically injured.

True, there aren't too many injuries, which is one of the beauties of martial arts. However, you also need to consider that football, soccer, baseball, hockey, and basketball players are out competing every week or every day. Their training and practice can sometimes be nearly as tough as games. NHB fighters typically compete far less often. If they competed on the same type of schedules I bet you'd see many more injuries.

 

[Calvin_Su]

True, there aren't too many injuries, which is one of the beauties of martial arts. However, you also need to consider that football, soccer, baseball, hockey, and basketball players are out competing every week or every day. Their training and practice can sometimes be nearly as tough as games. NHB fighters typically compete far less often. If they competed on the same type of schedules I bet you'd see many more injuries.

Sounds like you haven't been following NHB.

The UFC is not the only NHB event. There is Pride, King of the Cage, Kage Kombat, UCC, Warrior's Quest, Superbrawl, The Best, Brazilian Vale Tudo, Japan Vale Tudo, Pankration, Shooto, DEEP, Extreme Fighting, Xtreme Pankration, World Vale Tudo Championship, West Coast NHB Championships, K1, Night of the Gladiators, and countless others.

These guys are competing all the time. They are training all the time. They train on the average 6 hours a day.

 

[Henry Carmona]

Its obvious Calvin will not bend, but no matter.

I see boxing as david and goliath. In the end, boxing is all about brute force and some skill.

Ultimately, your goal is to win the fight, preferrably due to a knockout.

Some of my favorite marial arts take years, and years to perfect certain skills.

Where in boxing, you hit with padded gloves, and most anywhere in the head or body is a good spot, in most martial arts, you study the body and its weak points.

You also study how to strike to get the best possible results without hurting yourself in the process.

If i had to choose, id take a gloved punch to the head any day over a focused, hit to a pressure point that could possibly kill me.

 

[Calvin_Su]

Boxing is not about brute force. It's a very skillful sport, and takes years to master. Lennox Lewis is at his prime now at age 37.

As for taking a gloved punch to the head any day over a hit to a pressure point, that has nothing to do with the original point. You think in a real fight a boxer would be wearing his gloves?

 

[Alex Prosak]

You don't understand. NHB is a competition, just like football, wrestling, boxing, etc. They are proving themselves as much as any other professional athlete is.

I do understand that it is a competition like all of those other professional sports. I respect the abilities that these guys have. I just don't want to be a part of it.

I think I'll go bang my head on a brick wall for awhile. It will be more constructive than this and probably more fun. Heck, maybe it'll break if I bang my head on it long enough.

Later...

 

[Ryan Peter]

Boxers lose in these events too.

Actually no. Boxers don't enter these events often, but when they do they do well from what I've seen. What was that NHB tournament Renzo Gracie competed in? Some extreme fighting match, I can't remember. Anyway, the guy who ended up in the final was a washed up older boxer. He knocked out a few guys, did very well. I can only imagine what a good boxer would do in there. How would you take him down? Wouldn't be easy unless you are Mark Kerr.

 

[Ryan Peter]

I have no problem going for knees, throat, eyes, and groin if I have to defend myself.

This is a problem. If you get into a fight that you tried to get out of and do this stuff, you could find yourself in jail really quickly. That's why BJJ or Boxing works so well. You either knock a guy out or choke him out. No need to end up with a big lawsuit on your hands by f-ing a guy up for life or going to jail for it for that matter.

 

[Ryan Peter]

I guess you don't consider Chuck Norris, who has been very dedicated to MA for over 40 years, a true martial artist. He supports NHB.

Yeah he's a big fan of the Brazilian JJ Machado bros. from Brazil in Texas and is a student under them.

 

[Calvin_Su]

I am a student under the Machados. I train with Rigan and Roger Machado

 

[Ryan Peter]

I hear those guys are good, as good as Gracies.

 

[JoshF]

*Yawn* I thought we were talking about martial arts here?

I'm sorry, but I see these UFC events as entertainment. Chuck Norris and Bruce Lee, as great as they were on film, were entertainers.

Could you answer me this: What are you learning from your training in MMA? Are you learning anything about yourself, about grounding yourself, about finding balance, or are you learning how to provoke and argue?

 

[Ryan Peter]

I think every sport or everything (for that matter) you dedicate yourself to there is something you can learn about yourself.

 

[Calvin_Su]

Could you answer me this: What are you learning from your training in MMA? Are you learning anything about yourself, about grounding yourself, about finding balance, or are you learning how to provoke and argue?

I've learned plenty about myself from Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. In fact, I've learned more from jiujitsu than any other sport or martial art I have taken. Provoking and arguing is definitely not one of the things I learned.

 

[JoshF]

Provoking and arguing is definitely not one of the things I learned.

Interesting.

I'm aware that both Chuck Norris and Bruce Lee are/were accomplished martial artists. But when they step in front of the camera, they're entertainers. When UFC guys step in front of the camera and come up with their opening music and their funny closing moves and collect their share of the pay-per-view winnings, they're entertainers.